Think Pete Rose has something to say about baseball jumping in bed with gamblers? You bet he does

[robert terwilliger]

aaron and mays should be held to the same scrutiny then if we're eviscerating people wrt ped's but they're basically infallible deities. if all it takes is "well some guys were doing it" then throw ruth in the ped discussion too since players were shooting up horse steroids.

 

[Spirit of 67]

what keeps him out of cooperstown isn't that he's a degenerate gambler.

what keeps him out of cooperstown is the fact that he was betting on baseball games he was playing and managing in.

those two are not the same thing. the fact that rose made this statement is proof that he continues to not understand that. there has always been gambling in and on and around baseball. mlb understands that as most everyone does. you're just not supposed to gamble on games in which you're involved in the outcome i'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about that.

I have no idea why people find it so hard to understand.

Also, it's THE cardinal rule in baseball. No gambling. Period. (it's a very touchy subject for baseball) The fun thing about this is people want to keep steroid users out but they did not break any rules.

Anyway, he's also been caught repeatedly lying about what, exactly, he did do.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I have no idea why people find it so hard to understand.

Also, it's THE cardinal rule in baseball. No gambling. Period. (it's a very touchy subject for baseball) The fun thing about this is people want to keep steroid users out but they did not break any rules.

Anyway, he's also been caught repeatedly lying about what, exactly, he did do.

Steroid use is not against the rules? Someone call Wright.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Steroid use is not against the rules? Someone call Wright.

It is now, but the sport ignored it until congress got involved.

They essentially profitted hand over fist from the same guys they later tossed under the bus.

 

[Unholy Diver]

maybe those guys just figured out launch angle way before anyone else

 

[Bob Richards]

The MLB had no problem leeching off of the Bonds, McGwire and Sosa's of the league. "They're saving baseball".

They managed to profit off of a rejuvenated sport and then got to act as their own sheriff when everyone decided that steroids were unforgivable.

Barry Bonds never actually failed a test but the FBI certainly told Bud Selig about steroid use in baseball in the early 90s.

Guess which one is in the hall of fame.

 

[robert terwilliger]

selig was also one of the owners in on collusion in the 80's.

but he's in the hall of fame. sure.

 

[kingsholygrail]

It is now, but the sport ignored it until congress got involved.

They essentially profitted hand over fist from the same guys they later tossed under the bus.

It was banned in 1991. Random testing didn't start until 2003. So yeah there was an enforcement problem.

 

[Spirit of 67]

It is now, but the sport ignored it until congress got involved.

They essentially profitted hand over fist from the same guys they later tossed under the bus.

The players are being kept out of the hall but the owners, commissioner, executives, they'll all get there. Those that deserve it anyway.

 

[robert terwilliger]

but selig's already in.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Pretty sure everyone from the Maris/Mantle-Aaron-Mays days were using what is now a banned substance so if you're going to pretend like Bonds and McGwire and Sosa's numbers are illegitimate, you can delegitimize their numbers too because everyone was using greenies in those days.

Bud Selig being in the Hall of Fame only further solidifies that that whole thing is a farce.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Rose never bet against his own team, he only bet on them to win. I don't understand what's so bad about that.

As for the steroid argument, Clowe Me and Robert Terwilliger have expressed exactly what my thoughts are. Keeping Bonds out of the hall is an absolute joke.

 

[robert terwilliger]

Rose never bet against his own team, he only bet on them to win. I don't understand what's so bad about that.

...dude come on.

first he never bet on baseball.

then he bet on baseball but never on his team.

then he bet on baseball and his team but never to lose.

we don't know what every entry in the notebook says but i think it was 20 or something times they have him betting on his team while he was a player. you can't tell me with a straight face that you believe he was saying "aw yeah, who's pitching tonight? oh we got 'em. let me put two grand down on us". you can't tell me with a straight face that you believe that he didn't toss two grand on the other side on a getaway day where the greenie man didn't come through the clubhouse or the first day of a west coast trip where the plane didn't land until 4 in the morning and the first of a doubleheader was at 1pm.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Yeah there's no comparison between Rose and the steroid era guys.

By most accounts, everyone, or at the very least damn near everyone was juicing. Especially at the time, there was no legit "hey, no juicing rule" in place. No different than when Hank Aaron willingly admitted he and several others were on amphetamines during their careers. You can't argue the integrity of the game was damaged when there was no rule prohibiting it.

Pete Rose on the other hand, broke a rule that had been in stone for decades. Denny McClain got busted for the same crap like 20 years prior. **** Pete Rose.

 

[zombie kopitar]

Those who are saying 'there's no definitive proof they took it' ....come on. If there was as much evidence that Pete bet against his team as there was that these guys were juicing (and quarking bats), then I would have a different opinion...but personally I view one as a bigger insult to the game way more than the other.

 

[DaaaaB's]

...dude come on.

first he never bet on baseball.

then he bet on baseball but never on his team.

then he bet on baseball and his team but never to lose.

we don't know what every entry in the notebook says but i think it was 20 or something times they have him betting on his team while he was a player. you can't tell me with a straight face that you believe he was saying "aw yeah, who's pitching tonight? oh we got 'em. let me put two grand down on us". you can't tell me with a straight face that you believe that he didn't toss two grand on the other side on a getaway day where the greenie man didn't come through the clubhouse or the first day of a west coast trip where the plane didn't land until 4 in the morning and the first of a doubleheader was at 1pm.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch especially if he only bet on his own team 20 times. If you told me he did it 200 times then I'd say your probably right. Rose was a cocky and competitive guy, not that hard to believe that he'd only bet on himself to win. You could be correct tho I suppose.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Those who are saying 'there's no definitive proof they took it' ....come on. If there was as much evidence that Pete bet against his team as there was that these guys were juicing (and quarking bats), then I would have a different opinion...but personally I view one as a bigger insult to the game way more than the other.

They have books on Rose. Most of the guys on the Mitchell report are on based on hearsay.

 

[Fantomas]

3 players?!? Just look at the stats from that era. Homers were up for everyone. Brady Anderson who never hit more than 21 before all of a sudden hit 50. This wasn't a Bonds/McGwire/Sosa dependent era.

Brady Anderson very likely took steroids.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Brady Anderson very likely took steroids.

He might've but why would he only take them for one year? A non contract year at that. If he kept taking them, why did his homerun total drop back down.

 

[Fantomas]

He might've but why would he only take them for one year? A non contract year at that. If he kept taking them, why did his homerun total drop back down.

It's not that simple of a cause-effect relationship. Ken Caminiti's production went up and down as well. He also didn't take roids all the time because they affected his health.

 

[Fantomas]

Steroids are an institutional problem. The MLB wants to punish individual players as a tactic of deflecting blame from itself and other enablers -- the owners, the corporations, the coaches, the media.

Maybe Pete Rose shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame, but MLB's stance is pure posturing. They have no integrity.

 

[Kane One]

Fans betting != managers betting.

 

[Drake1588]

Pete Rose was one of the greats and is easily deserving of being in the Hall of Fame. I'd still have him in there. Ty Cobb is in there too. That guy was one SOB, but a great ballplayer. Rose meets those same criteria. It's not the Hall of Morality.

That said, Pete Rose also compromised the integrity of the game by betting on games in which he was involved, and deserved to be tossed and get a lifetime ban for it from then on out.

Baseball deciding to introduce gambling as a revenue stream does not absolve Rose, who broke a rule that will continue to be in effect. You bet on baseball when you are IN baseball, and you'll still get tossed. It's not hypocrisy. It's consistent. No one who does what he did will get off without facing dire consequences.

No one GOT Rose tossed from the game. Gamblers didn't do that. He got himself tossed. He broke a rule that everyone understood to be in place and he decided to do it anyway. Personal responsibility has never been a strong suit from this guy.

 

[SupremeNachos]

US is the land of 2nd chances. Instead of admitting decades ago that he was a gambler and needed help he vehemently denied all allegations and even insulted the people who accused him of doing it.

You can't change your mind 30 years later when you want to sell a book and expect to be forgiven. Every single game he played and managed in had it's integrity compromised. He made his bed and will die without ever getting into the hof.

If you are rich maybe. The US has disregarded the innocent before proven in favor of public opinion on hot button issues way too much the last decade. If Rose was a more likable guy I'd have more faith of seeing him elected in the HOF while he is alive.

 

[robert terwilliger]

if rose atoned for what he did i'd believe he'd actually have chance.

instead it's "aw shucks, that guy beat the shit out of his wife, that's worse than what i did!" or "how come these people are allowed to bet on baseball but i'm not?"

it comes back to this. i've said it on this very board for far too long and am now almost as old and grey as pwnasaurus:

pete rose broke the only rule baseball had. then he lied about it for years until he came clean to sell books.

he's since come cleaner only because more evidence was found that he no doubt was betting on games he was involved in. he has no business being in baseball in any way aside from selling shitty merchandise to his stupid supporters.