Therrien as Head Coach: for how much longer? must find his inner-walrus

[bsl]

We all need to realize this. We also need to realize that Bergevin is gaining experience on the job.

Don't really fancy having the General Manager of the Montreal Canadiens 'learning on the job'. Call me crazy.

 

[ECWHSWI]

If you go back to the original surgical tank thread opening post:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=52983733&postcount=1
I stressed that the 2012-2013 was a potent opportunity for a 1-year tank, so that we would build through the draft, but over a smaller number of years, both due to higher draft picks from tanking, and through additional draft picks by trading away.

Now, however, the tanking window has closed because Galchenyuk and Gallagher are on the team and contributing, and Eller and Subban have really improved.

MB has a different strategy, he comes off as intending to build with draft picks and only draft picks in spite of continuously making the playoffs, that is very hard to do, and quite frankly unrealistic. In practice, better trades and contract signings will be needed as well.

traded for Ryder, traded for Parros (late pick), traded for Drewiskie (late pick), signed Bouillon, signed Prust, signed Murray, signed Brière... he's pretty active for a guy who's only interested in draft picks, as active as any other GM I'd say...

 

[bsl]

traded for Ryder, traded for Parros (late pick), traded for Drewiskie (late pick), signed Bouillon, signed Prust, signed Murray, signed Brière... he's pretty active for a guy who's only interested in draft picks, as active as any other GM I'd say...

Yes. Prust as a competitive cup window player. If you're going to play tennis with us, hit the ball a little harder.

 

[DAChampion]

traded for Ryder, traded for Parros (late pick), traded for Drewiskie (late pick), signed Bouillon, signed Prust, signed Murray, signed Brière... he's pretty active for a guy who's only interested in draft picks, as active as any other GM I'd say...

These are mostly minor moves. You know, even the most cautious GM will end up signing players every single year because he needs to maintain a 23 man roster and there are a few expiring contracts every year, and only 1 or 2 rookies ready at best.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes. Prust as a competitive cup window player. If you're going to play tennis with us, hit the ball a little harder.

they may not be the guys you'd want on your team, but they were moves made by the GM...

so lets not pretend he's only interested in draft picks. That would be a start.

 

[ECWHSWI]

These are mostly minor moves. You know, even the most cautious GM will end up signing players every single year because he needs to maintain a 23 man roster and there are a few expiring contracts every year, and only 1 or 2 rookies ready at best.

who did we lose in the last year, Ryder (the guy he traded for) and who else ?

 

[bsl]

they may not be the guys you'd want on your team, but they were moves made by the GM...

so lets not pretend he's only interested in draft picks. That would be a start.

Agreed. It is bed time here, signing off. I enjoy our debates!

 

[DAChampion]

they may not be the guys you'd want on your team, but they were moves made by the GM...

so lets not pretend he's only interested in draft picks. That would be a start.

I think we'll need either a major trade, or a major UFA signing, or multiples of both, to make the transition from good team to great team. "Building through the draft" is not enough, even after including lateral moves like Kristo for Thomas or small signings like the 2-year contract to Davis Drewiske.

He hasn't delivered yet. OK. Maybe he'll deliver soon. If not, we don't make the transition to elite team imo.

 

[jaffy27]

Don't really fancy having the General Manager of the Montreal Canadiens 'learning on the job'. Call me crazy.

There is a huge difference between gaining experience and LEARNING on the job. If you're not gaining experience on your job site on a day to day basis, you have no business being there

 

[ECWHSWI]

I think we'll need either a major trade, or a major UFA signing, or multiples of both, to make the transition from good team to great team. "Building through the draft" is not enough, even after including lateral moves like Kristo for Thomas or small signings like the 2-year contract to Davis Drewiske.

He hasn't delivered yet. OK. Maybe he'll deliver soon. If not, we don't make the transition to elite team imo.

it's really just a hunch, but I get the feeling it may take a year or two... most were Habs fans before he became GMs, so to us the young core we should build around are guys like Eller, Patches, P.K., basically guys closing on their mid 20's... but maybe for MB, the young core is "his core", players that started playing with the Habs during his tenure as Habs GM (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival now, eventually Beaulieu and Tinordi) ?

 

[Agnostic]

I think we'll need either a major trade, or a major UFA signing, or multiples of both, to make the transition from good team to great team. "Building through the draft" is not enough, even after including lateral moves like Kristo for Thomas or small signings like the 2-year contract to Davis Drewiske.

He hasn't delivered yet. OK. Maybe he'll deliver soon. If not, we don't make the transition to elite team imo.

The entry draft is designed to make all teams gravitate to the middle of the pack overall , that's why bad teams get good picks and good teams get worse picks.

The difference making is in the management moves that bring in players needed to make the team better than middle of the pack. I would guess that it takes 10 positive moves by a GM at minimum for a team to step up into contender status.

Bergevin is working at about a -2 on the good move scale, he's got a way to go.

 

[jaffy27]

I think we'll need either a major trade, or a major UFA signing, or multiples of both, to make the transition from good team to great team. "Building through the draft" is not enough, even after including lateral moves like Kristo for Thomas or small signings like the 2-year contract to Davis Drewiske.

He hasn't delivered yet. OK. Maybe he'll deliver soon. If not, we don't make the transition to elite team imo.

Just remember that 2 years ago we were dead last in the conference, manage your expectations a little better and you won't be disappointed. Imagine someone asked you to build a house, it's a 6 month job but after 2 weeks, they were *****ing and cursing at you on account of the house not being fully built....would be pretty unfair and unrealistic on their part now would it...

 

[Ezpz]

Just remember that 2 years ago we were dead last in the conference, manage your expectations a little better and you won't be disappointed. Imagine someone asked you to build a house, it's a 6 month job but after 2 weeks, they were *****ing and cursing at you on account of the house not being fully built....would be pretty unfair and unrealistic on their part now would it...

We were dead last because of flukey bounces, thrown leads and Markov being injured. In terms of goal differential we were 9th place in the east, not even bottom 10 in the league.

 

[otto bond]

I said 4 years but if the GM doesn't help, could be at the end of this season.

 

[jaffy27]

If you go back to the original surgical tank thread opening post:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=52983733&postcount=1
I stressed that the 2012-2013 was a potent opportunity for a 1-year tank, so that we would build through the draft, but over a smaller number of years, both due to higher draft picks from tanking, and through additional draft picks by trading away.

Now, however, the tanking window has closed because Galchenyuk and Gallagher are on the team and contributing, and Eller and Subban have really improved.

MB has a different strategy, he comes off as intending to build with draft picks and only draft picks in spite of continuously making the playoffs, that is very hard to do, and quite frankly unrealistic. In practice, better trades and contract signings will be needed as well.

You draft your core, and sign the missing pieces. You've seen how much it cost for UFA's, ridiculous. You've got to sign these guys into their 40's at 5-6million dollar cap hit...makes no sense. Try to make a trade these days, not to many of the elite guys are available, and if they are, teams want a kings ransom

About the tank, no and I mean no team goes into the season thinking we gotta finish last, if they were, you'd have to put Bergevin and Co's commitment and integrity into question. Now, if you're mid season well out of the playoff picture and dealing with injuries, then yes, the thought process changes, but that was not the case last year, as a matter of fact, it was the opposite

 

[MasterDecoy]

We were dead last because of flukey bounces, thrown leads and Markov being injured. In terms of goal differential we were 9th place in the east, not even bottom 10 in the league.

you could say we were the reverse maple-leafs that year

 

[jaffy27]

We were dead last because of flukey bounces, thrown leads and Markov being injured. In terms of goal differential we were 9th place in the east, not even bottom 10 in the league.

Ya, like the HABS are the only team that deals with injuries and are subject to flukey goals, I can't believe I'm replying to this

 

[couris]

It wont change anything with another coach... fefans actually blaming the coach to protect their beloved overrated players. Our lineup is not very good. No #1 center and other mediocre/sofff #2/3 centers. Top 9 soff, too small and lack of skill.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Ya, like the HABS are the only team that deals with injuries and are subject to flukey goals, I can't believe I'm replying to this

he's saying that statistically, by every metric imaginable, we were far better than our record indicated that year.

 

[Scintillating10]

When will he get fired?...

see poll.

I knew it wouldn't be long before this board wanted coach fired. I remember Jacques Martin, before him Carbonneau, before him Julien

 

[jaffy27]

he's saying that statistically, by every metric imaginable, we were far better than our record indicated that year.

Far better!!! Don't think so

 

[MasterDecoy]

Far better!!! Don't think so

what is 'far better' than 3rd last for you then?

 

[Ezpz]

Far better!!! Don't think so

We were in the top half of the league for goals against, and were above the bottom 10 in goals for.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20112012&sort=standingsGoalDifferential&type=LEA

We were literally 7-8 third period goals away from making the playoffs.

 

[JLP]

Ya, like the HABS are the only team that deals with injuries and are subject to flukey goals, I can't believe I'm replying to this

Hehe yes and the Habs are also the only team building through the draft. Many other teams don't even bother showing up for the draft and so they just miss their turns.

Honestly it sometimes seems Habs fans live in a vacuum. Anyway back on topic I think MT is a meathead I wish we had a clever coach with an innovative approach for a change. We deserve better. And don't get me started on the PK situation...

 

[jaffy27]

Here are some of the players from that dismal 2011-12 team, so I ask you, who would you bring back...my guess is none, this was a bad team

Engqvist
Dumont
Staubitz
Spacek
St-Denis
Blunden Can't believe he's still here
Geoffrion
Palushaj
Nokeleinen
Gomez
Campoli
Darche (Was ok)
Webber
Kaberle

All guys that are not in NHL anymore or are reserves for their respective team, no wonder we finished last