Therrien as Head Coach: for how much longer? must find his inner-walrus

Dr Gonzo

#1 Jan Bulis Fan
Dec 13, 2009
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0
Bat Country
I am sorry but I do not understand how he is being out coached...

He wouldn't put Bouillon or Murray on the ice to close out games...we only dress 6 d-man and are 2 best D can not play the last 8 minutes of the game...he has to use what he has...NO???:shakehead

Except when he put Murray on the ice to close out the game a few nights ago he had fresh players that were better sitting on the bench, and we've all seen him doing it with Bouillon. Closing out the game = the last few minutes. Great coaches will usually shorten their bench and leave the weaker players (in this scenario that's Bouillon and Murray) off the ice. Not to mention he has a tendency to throw out his 4th line for defensive zone faceoffs. That's about as cringe-worthy it can get, especially in a game like last night where our 4th line was downright pitiful.

He gets out-coached fairly regularly during games(McLean dominated him last year in the playoffs, I suspect we all remember that quite clearly). He has a good system, but he can't adapt very well on the fly. Reminds me a little of Jacques Martin (different system of course, but same downfall). If his opening strategy doesn't work, he's in a lot of trouble. Great coaches usually adapt to the scenario presented.

Again, not saying he's a bad coach. I'd say he's right in the middle of the pack. If I had to score him on 10 it would be 6.5 or 7.
 
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Et le But

Registered User
Nov 28, 2010
20,473
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New York
Under Therrien the team looks hungry, aggressive and fast. It's night and day between Therrien and Martin - we just have to get rid of the imbecile in charge of the PK and defense and forcibly remove Bouillon and Desharnais from the toy chest.

He's a mediocre tactician but a fine coach - I wanted him gone after the fiasco against the Sens and still don't think he's the best option available but with some relatively minor tweaks we might be able to overcome his drawbacks. He's not going anywhere when we are around .500, scoring in bunches and have injuries - Bergevin is too faithful for that.

The team was definitely more aggressive and using their speed more last year - a credit to both an influx of younger players and yes, to Therrien's team emphasizing more agressive play and focusing more on getting them fired up than dour Martin.

"Firing them up" has a short shelf life though, and I'm rarely seeing that energy sustained this year. Maybe they are pacing themselves more since it's a regular season, but Therrien's teams do have a track record of starting off strong and getting progressively worse, so there's reasons to be concerned.
 

Banjo Cat

Registered User
May 31, 2007
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No that's usually sign of being... a coach. Almost every single coach in the league does this.

Hang out in other teams board sometimes. I not satig it's good, but coaches will be coaches

That's true. Even winning coaches like Quenville and Julien are trashed by their fans for things like this....giving some favorite player a lot of ice time, or playing a mysterious group of players in the last minute of the third. Not so long ago we were talking about Martin's love affair with Darche.
 

Banjo Cat

Registered User
May 31, 2007
5,765
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"Firing them up" has a short shelf life though, and I'm rarely seeing that energy sustained this year.

That's true, too. I think firing them up has been Therrien's selling point. I think the team, Subban included, seem quite happy to play for him. So, I don't think his personal relations with players have been as problematic as people are making them out to be. That said, they may not always buy into what Therrien is selling. I think he is a good motivational coach. But if he is not a good coach otherwise, ultimately he will lose the room.
 

dcyhabs

Registered User
May 30, 2008
4,223
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Montreal
Therrien gets respect as a development coach, not as a winner. I think Bergeving is aiming for 2016 or so. Once the young guys are ready and we have a queue of guys fighting for spots instead of having to play Blunden and Parros on the same line against a team that doesn't fight I think MB will dump him for a coach who can win.

I suspect Therrien was brought in to tank and his success indicates the team is better than expected. I'd estimate Therrien's relationship with the refs alone costs probably a half goal per game.
 

Bob Cole

Tom ******* Brady
Oct 30, 2009
9,103
32
Hopefully this year. What an embarrassment of a coach. I cant take another series like versus ottawa last year.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,202
36,190
All great to compare Therrien to the ex-coaches we have except for one thing....Here's our ex-coaches.....

Randy Cunneyworth: Just hired as a scout...not a head coach
Jacques Martin: Well good enough for assistant coach....but not head coach
Bob Gainey: Consultant or something. Not a coach.
Guy Carbonneau: Panelist at l'Antichambre. Will he ever coach again?

We have to go till Claude Julien to find a REAL coach in TODAY'S game. (Yes, I know....Jacques Martin was once a very good head coach...years ago)

So great for Michel....at best he's better than all of those guys that aren't good enough for head coaching...That's impressive. :sarcasm:
 

Pat Paeplow

Registered User
May 16, 2013
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0
I've always felt that Therrien exposes weaker players to high leverage situations for developmental purposes. He did this with Gally and Chucky early last season when neither had proved themselves. Devil's advocate but maybe Therrien is willing to trade a few regular season wins to instill some confidence and a sense of purpose in role players like Parros and Murray. Ballsy move in a division this tight. If he deploys like this in the playoffs, that's just crazy.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,202
36,190
That's true. Even winning coaches like Quenville and Julien are trashed by their fans for things like this....giving some favorite player a lot of ice time, or playing a mysterious group of players in the last minute of the third. Not so long ago we were talking about Martin's love affair with Darche.

Key word in your post...."winning". Therrien could sleep with Bouillon, I wouldn't care if we'd be a real winning team.
 

habsfanatics*

Registered User
May 20, 2012
5,051
1
Except that I presented a reasoning why he's a mediocre coach (Gets out-coached a lot, doesn't put the right personnel on the ice quite often). He can't adapt very well during a game and that's a huge knock against a coach.

Tell me why you think "He's a very great coach", keeping in mind that's about as high of an acclaim as you can give a head coach in the NHL. There's not much better than "very great", is there?


He hasn't been terrible, I don't think he's done particularly great either. He's been ok.

Limiting the rookies ice time was good, but again not enough to declare him a "very great coach". That's kind of the go-to tactic with rookies (easier ice time, easier zone starts, lower QoC). If that's all it takes to become a "very great coach", it probably means there are 30 "very great" coaches in the NHL.




If I recall correctly there was a "Should we fire Quenneville" thread in the Hawks forum right up until they won the Cup last year, heh. Fanatics gonna fanatic. I'm glad we have a message board to discuss it, or else my girlfriend would probably get sick of me discussing Habs TOI-usage.

Stop sugar-coating this, he sucks.
 

19VJ17

Registered User
Mar 9, 2011
2,563
547
Except when he put Murray on the ice to close out the game a few nights ago he had fresh players that were better sitting on the bench, and we've all seen him doing it with Bouillon. Closing out the game = the last few minutes. Great coaches will usually shorten their bench and leave the weaker players (in this scenario that's Bouillon and Murray) off the ice. Not to mention he has a tendency to throw out his 4th line for defensive zone faceoffs. That's about as cringe-worthy it can get, especially in a game like last night where our 4th line was downright pitiful.

He gets out-coached fairly regularly during games(McLean dominated him last year in the playoffs, I suspect we all remember that quite clearly). He has a good system, but he can't adapt very well on the fly. Reminds me a little of Jacques Martin (different system of course, but same downfall). If his opening strategy doesn't work, he's in a lot of trouble. Great coaches usually adapt to the scenario presented.

Again, not saying he's a bad coach. I'd say he's right in the middle of the pack. If I had to score him on 10 it would be 6.5 or 7.

Okay I understand your points about being out coached more now.

Someone on the board mentioned we should hire a better asst-coach to help him during the games to make adjustments....maybe this is what MB should do???
 

Stoneburg

Registered User
Mar 21, 2004
2,453
321
Fishing
I was surprised there were not shorter options in the poll. Less than two years to go means he would have been here three years, longer than average I suspect.

There should be an end of this year option, and a less than one year option, more realistic
 

Stoneburg

Registered User
Mar 21, 2004
2,453
321
Fishing
Okay I understand your points about being out coached more now.

Someone on the board mentioned we should hire a better asst-coach to help him during the games to make adjustments....maybe this is what MB should do???

Coaches hire their assistants, and all coaches should be evaluating the game, in game, and making adjustments, even junior coaches do that.
 

SB164

Registered User
Apr 29, 2010
17,596
3,824
Montreal, Quebec
MT needs to get some solid veteran assistant coaches who can tell him what to do during games. The ass-clowns he has right now are a joke.

Practices and in the locker room, he's a good rah rah guy, but in game situations, he's terrible, he's completely lost.

I still don't understand why the Habs refused to hire Larry Robinson.

“He’s been so awesome for all of us guys,” Thornton said. “If there’s kind of a stressful moment on the bench, he just kind of relaxes everybody. But he’s been a big help for a lot of us.

“He likes to have fun. This game is supposed to be fun and he makes it enjoyable, and he just keeps things really light around the locker- room.”

Robinson has had a huge impact, Sharks head coach Todd McLellan said.

“We’re so lucky to have Larry as part of our staff,” McLellan said. “First of all, we have a lot of fun with him. Anybody who knows him, he’s quite a character.

“And he takes a lot of stress away from a lot of people in certain situations. You can be respectful of his ... loose demeanour because of his past, and I think that really rubs off on others.”

Between Robinson and assistant coach Jim Johnson, they’ve got the Sharks’ back end playing really well, McLellan said.

Robinson is very astute as a player and thinks like one, McLellan said. “But he communicates like a coach and those tools are really remarkable for a coaching staff to have.”

Robinson and Johnson came in and set a brand-new penalty kill “and it’s been working for us — pressure everywhere,” defenceman Marc-Édouard Vlasic said.

“He knows hockey. The little details of the game. He really helps us a lot on defence. He’s a very good coach, a good guy, too,” Vlasic said when asked about Robinson’s impact.
 

Banjo Cat

Registered User
May 31, 2007
5,765
2,069
Key word in your post...."winning". Therrien could sleep with Bouillon, I wouldn't care if we'd be a real winning team.

Certainly. And a winning coach is what we want. I am not defending Therrien from criticism of his coaching ability here. But simply pointing out that even the best coaches are harranged for this.
 
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Agnostic

11 Stanley Cups
Jun 24, 2007
8,409
2
Thanks, aggy.


We do seem to love hiring/signing people before interviewing/contacting the rest of the potential applicants.

Yeah who turns away a Stanley Cup winning coach who is a legend as a Canadiens player? Apparently the current brain trust does .
 

yoyo999

Registered User
May 24, 2012
496
0
The pool of coaches will always be small as long as speaking French is a requirement.

If Guy Boucher gets a job before Therrien is fired, they'll have to go with an inexperienced assistant, an inexperienced guy from the Q or Nathan Beaulieu's dad.
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
17,585
5,218
There's not much on the market at the moment either way, so I don't really see the need to fire him short-term unless the locker-room wants him gone.

I'd think the front-runners for the next HC job would be Crawford or Lefebvre... Not all that interesting.
 

Cole Caulifield

Registered User
Apr 22, 2004
27,967
2,465
@ gonzo

I meant having favorites. And besides bouillon is nowhere near as bad as this Board makes him out to be. He's overused yes, but that's the coach playing favorites and all coaches do that

You're 100% right but I suspect many young posters won't want to acknowledge that.
 

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