OT: "There's no question we have too many young players," Tom Watt says; Cam Neely traded 92 days later.

Blade Paradigm

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Oct 21, 2017
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In March of 1986, Vancouver Canucks coach and assistant general manager Tom Watt famously said "there's no question we have too many young players."

Three months later, the Canucks traded Cam Neely and their first-round pick in 1987 for Barry Pederson.

West_Coast_Authentic_NHL_Canucks_Cam_Neely_Autographed_Photo.jpg


"There's no question we have too many young players. It's difficult to compete, for example, when you have less than 1,000 games of NHL experience among your six defencemen some nights. Mistakes made behind your own blueline cost you, and we have a lot of young fellows back there. It takes time to mature in the National Hockey League, especially on defence.

With youth, there's optimism that things are going to get better. But youth doesn't always mean good, and older players doesn't always mean bad. There's a danger that you can always be building and you never get there.

Sometimes, I get concerned that we put too much (emphasis) on young players and try to rush them to be leaders before they're really ready."
- Tom Watt, March 1986

"Cam Neely, a rugged, 205-pound right winger at age 20, is a prime example. Neely was rushed into the Canuck lineup as a raw rookie in 1983. He's had moderate success, with 21 goals last season, but this year has been a disaster.

Neely has scored only eight times and his confidence has deteriorated. A product of the underage draft, Neely's career would have been better served by a longer training period in junior."
- Grant Kerr, The Globe and Mail, March 7, 1986
Watt finding sad Canucks slow to learn
Kerr, Grant. The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]07 Mar 1986: D.16.

...

How is it, then, that the holder of a master's degree in physical education has been unable to pry an ounce of improvement out of the Vancouver Canucks this season?

...

Watt, 50, is in his first season as head coach of the Canucks. He also doubles as assistant to the general manager, the often invisible Jack Gordon, who carries the title of director of hockey operations.

...

"There's no question we have too many young players," Watt says. "It's difficult to compete, for example, when you have less than 1,000 games of NHL experience among your six defencemen some nights.

"Mistakes made behind your own blueline cost you, and we have a lot of young fellows back there. It takes time to mature in the National Hockey League, especially on defence."

Many NHL teams try to rebuild through the draft. It's a method that can be rewarding, but just as often costs competent coaches, such as Watt, their jobs. Watt remembers having been fired by the Winnipeg Jets in 1984, less than 18 months after being named the NHL coach of the year.

...

Vancouver is a franchise that has suffered growing pains since entering the NHL in 1970 as an expansion team. There have been some good coaches - Phil Maloney and Roger Neilson come to mind - but often their hard work and dedication have been undermined by the constant influx of youth into the lineup during the building process.

"With youth, there's optimism that things are going to get better," Watt says. "But youth doesn't always mean good, and older players doesn't always mean bad.

"There's a danger that you can always be building and you never get there. Sometimes, I get concerned that we put too much (emphasis) on young players and try to rush them to be leaders before they're really ready."

Cam Neely, a rugged, 205-pound right winger at age 20, is a prime example. Neely was rushed into the Canuck lineup as a raw rookie in 1983. He's had moderate success, with 21 goals last season, but this year has been a disaster.

Neely has scored only eight times and his confidence has deteriorated. A product of the underage draft, Neely's career would have been better served by a longer training period in junior.

...

His peers readily acknowledge that Watt is a sound if not brilliant coach. He was perhaps the best coach in the history of Canadian college hockey and the NHL is looking more and more to college- trained coaches.

"My eyes were wide open when I came back to Vancouver," says Watt, who first joined the Canucks as an assistant in 1980. "You do the best you can, even though you know it's not going to be a bed of roses.

"That's what being a professional coach is all about. You try and do the job, no matter the circumstances. No matter how up or down the team is, you have to take a professional approach to the situation."

...
"Yesterday, the Vancouver Canucks avoided a compensation issue by trading forward Cam Neely and their first-round draft choice in the 1986 entry draft to the Boston Bruins for star centre Barry Pederson, whose contract was about to expire on July 1.

The Canucks had planned to sign Pederson and pay the compensation, which would have been two first-round draft choices or one first-round choice plus the fifth-best player on their roster. By making the formal trade, compensation did not need to be worked out."
- William Houston, The Globe and Mail, June 7, 1986
Eagle seeks liberty for NHL free agents
Houston, William. The Globe and Mail; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont]07 June 1986: C.3.

...

Yesterday, the Vancouver Canucks avoided a compensation issue by trading forward Cam Neely and their first-round draft choice in the 1986 entry draft to the Boston Bruins for star centre Barry Pederson, whose contract was about to expire on July 1.

...

The Canucks had planned to sign Pederson and pay the compensation, which would have been two first-round draft choices or one first-round choice plus the fifth-best player on their roster. By making the formal trade, compensation did not need to be worked out.

...
"Sure, we gave up a lot. But we had to get Pederson. Last year, we didn't have a centre who scored 20 goals. How would you like to play the Edmonton Oilers eight times a year without a 20-goal centreman?" - Tom Watt, December 1986
Pederson trade could be Canucks' downfall: [FINAL Edition]
Mike Beamish Southam News. The Ottawa Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]02 Dec 1986: D3.

VANCOUVER - It has the potential to be the worst deal since the California Golden Seals traded their first pick in the 1971 draft to the Montreal Canadiens.

Montreal used the selection to take Guy Lafleur.

The Vancouver Canucks paid a heavy price in June to obtain centre Barry Pederson from the Boston Bruins. Not only did they give up rugged cornerman in Cam Neely, only 21 and a former first-round draft pick, but also they threw in their first choice for the 1987 NHL draft.

The star attraction in that draft will another swashbuckling French Canadian, Granby Bisons' centre Pierre Turgeon. Considering the Canucks (7-15-2) are already behind their 59-point pace of the 1985-86 season, the Bruins could own the No. 1 pick in '87.

Trading away their first choice to Montreal was the death knell for the Golden Seals. It could also be the final act for the Canucks, who have stretched the resilience and loyalty of their fans beyond limit.

Once the season began, no one on the west coast was too surprised to see Neely bolt to the top of the Bruins' scoring derby before a knee injury sidelined him. Meanwhile, Pederson struggled, while the Canucks won only two of their first 13 games.

"Sure, we gave up a lot," said Canuck coach Tom Watt, who felt it was his job to defend the Pederson trade. "But we had to get Pederson. Last year, we didn't have a centre who scored 20 goals. How would you like to play the Edmonton Oilers eight times a year without a 20-goal centreman?"

Pederson, 25, used to be one of the top three or four centres in the NHL, but that was before he missed 58 games in the 1984-85 season after surgery to remove a fibrous tumor from his right bicep. There was concern his career might be over, but after a slow start in the '85-'86 season, Pederson finished with 29 goals and 76 points in Boston.

Pederson's arm is a constant reminder of what he has gone through. A long line of scar tissue snakes from the shoulder to the elbow.

"The scar is a big thing with everyone," Pederson concedes. "I don't feel it will be an issue for the rest of my career; I feel it's behind me. I feel I'll have a greater chance of injuring my knee than having problems with my arm again. Still, the scar is there and I guess people feel they're entitled to keep asking about it."

Doctors tell Pederson he'll probably have a greater chance of winning the Stanley Cup in Vancouver than having a recurrence of the tumor.


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Intangibos

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Apr 5, 2010
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Good post, great way to start the day.

Do you have any information on the post Lafayette hit? Could really make me feel ready to work on Monday!
 
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Intangibos

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Apr 5, 2010
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Honestly I don't really care about 94, don't get mad at me. I was 3 years old and I'd rather I get to watch the first Canuck cup, it seems sweeter somehow. Feel sad for my parents though, life long fans and I think there is a good chance they won't make it to see the Canucks win. Then again at this rate there is a good chance we won't either.

An analysis of the physics involved in the puck to Malhotra's eye or a breakdown of how Hamhuis' body was destroyed in a hipcheck gone wrong would hurt so much more.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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Honestly I don't really care about 94, don't get mad at me. I was 3 years old and I'd rather I get to watch the first Canuck cup, it seems sweeter somehow. Feel sad for my parents though, life long fans and I think there is a good chance they won't make it to see the Canucks win. Then again at this rate there is a good chance we won't either.

An analysis of the physics involved in the puck to Malhotra's eye or a breakdown of how Hamhuis' body was destroyed in a hipcheck gone wrong would hurt so much more.

f*** you for being a soft 3 yr old. We needed more gritty 10 year olds like my self to win the cup.
 

Cogburn

Pretend they're yachts.
May 28, 2010
15,073
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Vancouver
So there are two lessons here:

1. Don't trade a power forward after rushing him into the league (what was done).

2. Don't put all your energy into drafting/development, build around those players rather than inject youth and nothing else (what was said).
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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Neely trade was probably the most lopsided trade in NHL history...A clear demonstration on giving up on young players far too soon...Idiotic.

We somewhat redeemed ourselves with the Naslund trade.
 

PecaFan

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Nov 16, 2002
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I'm as diehard a fan as anyone, but the Neely trade never bothered me for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, we were going to lose him anyway as compensation. Management was dead set on Pederson, and Boston just would have taken Neely anyway. So the trade was essentially irrelevant.

I also firmly believe that had we held on to Cam, at best he tops out as a Jim Sandlak. In Boston, he had a small rink, and was surrounded by great talent, hall of famers, and all stars. In Vancouver, he would have been playing with crap, border line beer leaguers and waiver fodder. No way in hell he develops the same way.
 
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David Bruce Banner

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I'm as diehard a fan as anyone, but the Neely trade never bothered me for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, we were going to lose him anyway as compensation. Management was dead set on Pederson, and Boston just would have taken Neely anyway. So the trade was essentially irrelevant.

I also firmly believe that had we held on to Cam, at best he tops out as a Jim Sandlak. In Boston, he had a small rink, and was surrounded by great talent, hall of famers, and all stars. In Vancouver, he would have been playing with crap, border line beer leaguers and waiver fodder. No way in hell he develops the same way.

I was sad to see Cam go, but I'll agree... Vancouver had the Reverse Midas touch at the time. Sandlak level performance was a distinct possibility. Sadly, I think we hung onto Sandlak so long because we were afraid he would turn into another Neely.

Also, the Canucks really needed a top center to go up against the Gretzky's and Hawerchuks and Messier's that they were facing on a regular basis. Unfortunately, Pederson never fully recovered from his arm surgery... and then he further deteriorated in Vancouver.

I was more mad, though, about the Vaive and Derlago for Williams and Butler trade. That one made no sense.

And just for some larfs, here's some of the high quality stable of 21 and under talent we had in the hopper at the time of the Neely trade...

Jim Agnew
David Bruce
Craig Coxe
J.J. Daigneault
Troy Gamble
Taylor Hall
Robert Kron
Dave Lowry
Michel Petit
Jim Sandlak
Ronnie Stern
Tony Tanti
Dan Woodley
 

nuck luck

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Mar 2, 2016
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I'm as diehard a fan as anyone, but the Neely trade never bothered me for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, we were going to lose him anyway as compensation. Management was dead set on Pederson, and Boston just would have taken Neely anyway. So the trade was essentially irrelevant.

I also firmly believe that had we held on to Cam, at best he tops out as a Jim Sandlak. In Boston, he had a small rink, and was surrounded by great talent, hall of famers, and all stars. In Vancouver, he would have been playing with crap, border line beer leaguers and waiver fodder. No way in hell he develops the same way.

?

A bad trade is a bad trade. There is no justification for it...no excuse.

So you have no problem tossing in a guaranteed high pick for the sake of it too? I guess you have no problem with the Gud trade because we have Pete, Bo and it seems Gaudette down the middle. Hell, he wouldn't make it here anyways, we don't have enough good wingers to line up with him. No way in hell he develops the same way.
 

Blade Paradigm

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Oct 21, 2017
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I was sad to see Cam go, but I'll agree... Vancouver had the Reverse Midas touch at the time. Sandlak level performance was a distinct possibility. Sadly, I think we hung onto Sandlak so long because we were afraid he would turn into another Neely.

Also, the Canucks really needed a top center to go up against the Gretzky's and Hawerchuks and Messier's that they were facing on a regular basis. Unfortunately, Pederson never fully recovered from his arm surgery... and then he further deteriorated in Vancouver.

I was more mad, though, about the Vaive and Derlago for Williams and Butler trade. That one made no sense.

And just for some larfs, here's some of the high quality stable of 21 and under talent we had in the hopper at the time of the Neely trade...

Jim Agnew
David Bruce
Craig Coxe
J.J. Daigneault
Troy Gamble
Taylor Hall
Robert Kron
Dave Lowry
Michel Petit
Jim Sandlak
Ronnie Stern
Tony Tanti
Dan Woodley
Tony Tanti, Patrik Sundstrom, and Petri Skriko were all excellent as young players for the Canucks. Skriko scored 38 goals in 1985-86; Tanti scored 39. Sundstrom averaged 73 points per season as a Canuck.

I just think Neely was misused. He thrived whenever he played with a competent playmaker a la Craig Janney and Adam Oates. He was playing down the depth chart with the Canucks.
 

David Bruce Banner

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Mar 25, 2008
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?

A bad trade is a bad trade. There is no justification for it...no excuse.

So you have no problem tossing in a guaranteed high pick for the sake of it too? I guess you have no problem with the Gud trade because we have Pete, Bo and it seems Gaudette down the middle. Hell, he wouldn't make it here anyways, we don't have enough good wingers to line up with him. No way in hell he develops the same way.

Yeah, it turned out to be a bad trade... but there was justification. Previous to his surgery, Pederson had proven himself a top offensive performer. And he was still young. His surgery wasn’t something that should have rung too many alarm bells... it wasn’t knee surgery or anything.

Cam, at that point hadn’t shown much more than Virtanen has. Would you trade him and a 1st for, say, Draisaitl (if he’d missed time last year with a hand injury)?

And no, I wasn’t a fan of the Gudbranson trade from the get go. What had Realgud ever done?
 

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