There's life in the old dog yet!

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by Slay, Aug 23, 2004.

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  1. Slay

    Slay Registered User

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    http://metallurg.ru/news/12150/

    The killer of the last "Soviet Machine" is on the ice again.

    ...After the ending of the 1st leg teams will move to the hockey rinks of NA and together with them the referees. And possibly that already in quarterfinal team Russia will meet with evil genius of last great USSR team of 1987 Canada Cup - Don Koharsky.

    Let's remember, Koharsky was refereeing 1st and 3rd games of legendary final of Canada Cup 1987. In spite of Koharsky's tryings Soviet team won 1st game 6-5. In the 2nd game, that was refereed by Paul Stewart, Tikhnov's team was seriously hammered in refereeing. That time it was seriously noticeably that Soviets and Canadians are judged by different rules. The team of "Maple Leaf" won with 6-5 score, and the teams were expecting for the 3rd game.

    And here it happened that all cavils of Stewart were the model of objective refereeing comparing to what Koharsky made with Soviet team. In spite of poor refereeing Soviets took a lead 3-0, and here Koharsky started to "work" in full power.

    Different tricks were used in order to break Soviet team: stick measurings, evidently farfetched penalties because of "too many players" (while canadians at times had 8 players on the ice simultaneously), referee's whistles were almost about every falling of canadian players.

    At the same time canadians were doing everything they wanted - toppling Soviets and didn't self-consciousing in methods.

    With the help of the referee canadians tied the score 5-5 and then the referee didn't count the goal scored by Alexei Kasatonov. Later Mario Lemieux made the score 6-5 and to all appearances with violation of rules. Dale Huwerchuk roughly attacked Vyacheslav Bykov who tried to hamper to Lemieux. Also earlier when Waine Gretzky made an assist to Lemieux, "Super-Mario" was in situation strongly looked ass off-side.

    However, in determination of off-side Koharsky's responsiblity should be shared with Soviet linesman Mikhail Galinivsky, who scrupled to stop the game. But the main "killer" of the Soviet team everybody considered Koharsky.

    Later the assistent of Tikhonov and Urzinov departed Igor Dmitriev wanted very much to talk with misadventuring canadian eye to eye. Soviet gazetts were writing that Koharsky is a descendant of ukranian immigrants-banderovs and thus has the a grudge against Soviet Union and his representatives - Soviet hockey players. And now Koharsky 17 years after again will refereeing matches of the World Cup. There's life in the old dog yet! So the Belilatdinov's team should wait next intrigues from referee-banderovets.
     
  2. Douggy

    Douggy Registered User

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    If the Russians lose and you want someone to blame, don't blame the officiating. Blame the talented players who decided not to show up for no real reason at all.
     
  3. Slay

    Slay Registered User

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    I don't blame anyone. Just the article for unknowledged about what has happened there. The games on neutral territory would show who is who. You know obviously there is something wrong when canadian refereeing the game Canada vs whoever. Think about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2004
  4. Macman

    Macman Registered User

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    Ah, nothing refreshes like a little Russian whine! It's always the same excuse. Canada had eight players on the ice? Lemieux was off-side on the winning goal? I've seen that goal dozens of times and Lemieux wasn't anywhere close to being off side. The Russians lost because Tikhinov was stupid enough to have an 18-year-old Igor Kravchuk on the ice in the final two minutes against Gretzky, Lemeiux and Hawerchuk while Fetisov was sitting on the bench. No evil conspiracies, folk, just plain stupidity.
     
  5. Slay

    Slay Registered User

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    Well not more whine than from Canadian folks about 1972 and world championships on european ice and numerous junior tourneys.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2004
  6. Macman

    Macman Registered User

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    Sure, there's been plenty of Canadian whining over the years, but there's also been plenty of examples of Canadian respect and acknowledgement of the skills and talent in other countries. I don't find that with Russian teams and especially Russian fans. There is usually some evil conspiracy to blame for their losses. Canada never beats the Russians legitimately. There is never any acknowledgement that maybe, just maybe, the better team won. Kasparaitis said it best after the 2002 Olympics. "We always blame the referees."
     
  7. Jovo Cop

    Jovo Cop Guest

    Sounds like the excuse machine warming up ..wah wah wah .
     
  8. Slay

    Slay Registered User

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    Good post. Not all Russian fans can see NHL games but still most of them knows and acknowledge other countries players: Finns for their USSR-like style of play, Canadians for their great effort and heart and fighting till last seconds of the game, Slovaks - also for fast combination hockey... - these things are well known and appreciated by most real fans in Russia and this is what they want to see in Russian team.

    And saying that fans or players don't acknowledge "that maybe, just maybe, the better team won" is very wrong here. There was referee's blaming mostly in post Soviet era but practically not that much (the most screaming is SL City and can't really remember more). Everybody in Russia understands that now the team is not that strong and loses to better teams otherwise you wouldn't hear from Russians on forums "our team sucks...". In USSR times I don't remember any serious pretensions to referees except 1987.

    Maybe you don't see enough acknowledges on hockey forums but forums is not everything, not many Russians visit them. In fact many Russians think that Canadians can't acknowledge "that maybe, just maybe, the better team won" - something like "we're still better and will show it next year.." and so on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2004
  9. Reilly311

    Reilly311 Guest

    lol @ canada
     
  10. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    I'm not sure how much of a Canadian "conspiricy" it could have been when Paul Stewart, one of the refs in question isn't even Canadian!
     
  11. Buya89

    Buya89 Registered User

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    Blame Canada!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. Peter25

    Peter25 Registered User

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    It´s a fact that Koharski and Stewart screwed the Soviets in 87 with their biased refereeing. For example two legal Soviet goals were disallowed in the second final. And one goal scored by Lemieux in that same game was an obvious offside. I can´t see how the linesmen couldn´t see that that as Lemieux was two or three feet offside in that play.

    And then there were numerous blatant cheapshots that were ignored by the ref (Hartsburg cross-checks Krutov from behind, Messier does the same to Gusarov, Anderson deliberately runs goalie Beloshejkin, Propp slashes Khomutov to his HEAD from behind after Khomutov scores a goal. No penalties).

    87 Canada Cup finals was a poor, poor case of refereeing. Soviets were robbed from the victory, as they were clearly the better team.

    The real winner of the 87 Canada Cup was Soviet Union IMHO. It´s such a shame that refs had to "save" Team Canada on their home ice. Their "victory" is tainted to say the least.

    In the 81 Canada Cup final Swedish Dag Olsson was the ref in that game. No wonder the Soviets beat Team Canada 8-1 then with an inpartial ref.
     
  13. Peter25

    Peter25 Registered User

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    Just think about it. Those were the days of Cold War! Do you honestly think that a Canadian or even an American referee is going to be inpartial when Team Canada faces those "dirty commies" on Canadian ice with Canadian audience? No way!

    Viktor Tikhonov and many Soviet players have stated that they were betrayed by the Canadian "hockey mafia" in both 1984 and 1987. Remember that it was Alan Eagleson who was responsible for these tournaments. He is a known criminal who happened to hate Soviet Union with passion.
     
  14. Macman

    Macman Registered User

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    Thanks for proving my point. This is exactly the kind of ridiculous conspiracy thing that I was referring to. I read your post, went to my tape file and popped in the final game. A few points:

    What goal of Lemieux's was obviously offside? He scored only one goal in that game, it was the OT winner, and he was six feet INSIDE the Russian line when he took the drop pass from Gretzky. No other Canadian goals in that game were even remotely close to being offside, but don't let that stop you from claiming some evil mafia conspiracy.

    The fact is, the Soviets scored two shorthanded goals in that game and both resulted from Canadians being pulled down on plays that could easily have been called penalties but weren't. In the first, Goulet was hauled down by Gusarov as he was about the take a pass in front of the Soviet net. Gusarov then went up the ice on a two-on-one and scored. In the second, Coffey was the lone guy back in the Canadian zone when he was hooked to the ice by Makarov, resulting in a Soviet breakaway and a goal. I guess Stewart forgot he was part of a conspiracy.

    As for your catoguing of every whack, hack and hook in a hockey game, so what? It happens in every game ever played and players on both side do it. Take the blinders off for once and accept the fact that two evenly matched teams played the three greatest games ever and Canada won fair and square.
     
  15. Jovo Cop

    Jovo Cop Guest

    LOL @ peter25
    Yep how about i send you my Summit Series DVDs and you can witness the brilliant officiating of one Mr.Kompalla ..then try and tell me how bad any North american refereeing ..2 or 3 feet off side ..give me a break ..can you exagerate any more????
     
  16. Jovo Cop

    Jovo Cop Guest

    The problems euros have with North american refs is they dont call penalties on clean hits .Euro refs call a penalty against North American teams if it SOUNDS loud!!!
     
  17. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Now who's whining about the refs?
     
  18. Jovo Cop

    Jovo Cop Guest

    Ime not whining ..merely stating a fact .
     
  19. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

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    There something very familiar about your writing. Are you by any chance 'Original Jags' from the Jatkoaika boards?
     
  20. Kronblom

    Kronblom Registered User

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    Probably the last time there were european referees, I wonder why...

    It should be "interesting" to watch Koharski & Co this time, I can´t say I didn´t react when I saw that he was selected.
     
  21. Canadians whine about European officiating because it's different than what they see at home. With the exception of 1972 (where even I will say the Soviet referees blatantly tried to screw Canada), Canadians aren't making accusations of cheating, they're just not used to the European style of officiating.
     
  22. It's called a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

    One of the conditions of NHL players going to the Olympics was that in any game where 50% of the players are NHL players, the game must be officiated by NHL officials.

    The World Cup is an NHL-sanctioned tournament being played under NHL rules. It only makes sense that NHL officials are used to officiate the tournament.
     
  23. Kronblom

    Kronblom Registered User

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    We see the same thing in the olympic basketball tournament by the way, the americans aren´t used to the rules played outside north america and complain now and then...

    As far as I´m concerned they can ref any which way they like in the World Cup, as long as they do it fair. Which I think they will actually - this time. ;)
     
  24. Kronblom

    Kronblom Registered User

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    But why were there europeans refs in the early Canada Cup's and not now?
     
  25. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    my Russian comrades, we've both screwed each other over numerous times with officiating. instead of continuing down this same path, i propose we turn our anger to the real enemy: that American chick who reffed that Canada-USA womens final in the olympics! i would have been on the floor laughing if i wasn't so scared those calls were going to decide the game. in all my years of watching and playing hockey (ok, only 15 or so), that was THE most poorly officiated game i've ever seen
     
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