Half-Assed GDT: Theres a game today

[STL BLUES]

Bring on the youth movement! A year ago we were sold that this team was retooling with an emphasis on "speed". It's currently not a "heavy" team.

Chief is excellent at bringing along the young players. Probably nobody better at it then Chief. Let's see what we've got. Then add a top five pick over the summer for the cherry on top.

Robinson is doing well with our D. Colt is playing better and Colt is a big part of our future. I honestly like our D's future. No team seems to have a perfect D in this league. Give Robinson some time to imprint this young D core. It's going to get better.

The first goal tonight was a fluke bounce off the boards. The second goal was a deflection off of Bowmiester's stick. And Jake's third goal was his fault. He's not going to save them all. Still Chief had no choice but to pull Jake.

I'm all in for the Blues Rebuild + Hughes.

 

[Saint Loser]

Come visit America and I will buy you a ticket.

Kinda cool having a Red Wings guy hanging out with us.

Never woulda thunk it!

 

[TheDizee]

LOU GOIN HAM

 

[mk80]

LOU GOIN HAM

While he's right about those guys, the only one who would still be useful to have around in my opinion is Reaves. Backes' contract is brutal with his age, injury, and low production on ice.

 

[BlueDream]

All 3 of those guys are 4th-line caliber today.

4th liners are really gonna be the answer for us?

And if we miss their leadership THAT much, then doesn’t that say that Pietrangelo, Steen and Tarasenko are doing an awful job with that? If the media thinks so, then call them out for it.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

While he's right about those guys, the only one who would still be useful to have around in my opinion is Reaves. Backes' contract is brutal with his age, injury, and low production on ice.

I don't think he was saying we need Backes back. But he was a true captain and the team never quit on him. We made the playoffs with Carlo Coliacovo on our first pairing and players like Dagostini, Berglund, and Stewart playing in the top 6. Why can't this roster win? I would really like to see what this team would do in front of a competant goaltender. Until we shake up goalies, I dont think it's time to give up on this group or DA.

But I think anyone other than O'Reilly should be available if a trade were to happen. I would prefer Tarasenko to pan out but I just don't see it happening. He's always had a great wrist shot but it's not like he was a great puck handler, great passer, or great skater. I feel like Pietrangelo is being scapegoated a bit this year simply because he is captain. I would rather strip him of the C before trading him because hes having a down year when the whole team is having a down year.

I feel like Steen has completely checked out of playing with this group of players. I think we need to shake up the defense and make a swap for equal players on the levels of JBo, Gunnar, Bort, and Schmaltz.

The young guys haven't really stepped up like we've needed them too either.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Tarasenko is coming off shoulder surgery and shooting well below his career average shot percentage.

Remember when Giroux supposedly fell off the face of earth and was washed up? Or maybe, he wasn't fully healthy from surgery....he followed it up by having the best year of his career.

I'm not saying Tarasenko will explode into a 100 point player but unless the player coming our way is distinctively better, it would be an extremely stupid trade to make.

Our coaching and goaltending have been a mess and our left defense is weak. Edmundson was never a top pairing defender and Dunn has defensive gaffes that he needs work on. Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson being utterly useless hasn't helped.

The only thing the team needs to do is stop employing deadweight players like Bozak, Maroon and bring in guys that can add actual value to the bottom six at a cheap price a la Toronto. Bring a guy that can add some stability on LD (Schlemko?) and just get rid of Allen and bring in a new goalie. We're gonna get a good pick, we can likely pick one of Hughes/Kakko/Dach/Byram. Those guys will give the management group options.

 

[BlueDream]

I don't think he was saying we need Backes back. But he was a true captain and the team never quit on him. We made the playoffs with Carlo Coliacovo on our first pairing and players like Dagostini, Berglund, and Stewart playing in the top 6. Why can't this roster win? I would really like to see what this team would do in front of a competant goaltender. Until we shake up goalies, I dont think it's time to give up on this group or DA.

But I think anyone other than O'Reilly should be available if a trade were to happen. I would prefer Tarasenko to pan out but I just don't see it happening. He's always had a great wrist shot but it's not like he was a great puck handler, great passer, or great skater. I feel like Pietrangelo is being scapegoated a bit this year simply because he is captain. I would rather strip him of the C before trading him because hes having a down year when the whole team is having a down year.

I feel like Steen has completely checked out of playing with this group of players. I think we need to shake up the defense and make a swap for equal players on the levels of JBo, Gunnar, Bort, and Schmaltz.

The young guys haven't really stepped up like we've needed them too either.

Agreed with this. Judging by the team when he isn't in the lineup, he's not the problem. They don't look better without him. I don't care if they take the C from him but we don't need to trade him. Petro/Parayko is IMO a top 10 d-man duo in the league. Just leave them be.

Schwartz is another guy that we continuously play like shit without having him in the lineup, and that's happened for years. We need to keep him as well. He is the new Oshie, a guy that drives the team, and if we traded him it would turn out as bad as the Oshie deal. With his playing style, he's exactly the type of player that would make an impact in the playoffs to put a contender over the top and hoist the Cup with.

Tarasenko, while disappointing, is still too early to give up on. We need a guy in the lineup that can score from anywhere. He at least can make the opposing team nervous about that. I'd like to re-evaluate Tarasenko in a year. He's only about to be 27. If in one year he is still struggling, then I'll be more convinced he's regressing and will be more open to moving him then.

I don't think it really makes sense to trade anyone other than Steen. (Anyone that matters, that is).

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Agreed with this. Judging by the team when he isn't in the lineup, he's not the problem. They don't look better without him. I don't care if they take the C from him but we don't need to trade him. Petro/Parayko is IMO a top 10 d-man duo in the league. Just leave them be.

Schwartz is another guy that we continuously play like **** without having him in the lineup, and that's happened for years. We need to keep him as well. He is the new Oshie, a guy that drives the team, and if we traded him it would turn out as bad as the Oshie deal. With his playing style, he's exactly the type of player that would make an impact in the playoffs to put a contender over the top and hoist the Cup with.

Tarasenko, while disappointing, is still too early to give up on. We need a guy in the lineup that can score from anywhere. He at least can make the opposing team nervous about that. I'd like to re-evaluate Tarasenko in a year. He's only about to be 27. If in one year he is still struggling, then I'll be more convinced he's regressing and will be more open to moving him then.

I don't think it really makes sense to trade anyone other than Steen. (Anyone that matters, that is).

Wrong. His value will continue to drop. His play is soooo bad every night that he's either a bad player or he's hiding some serious injury. In either case they need to cut ties with him and fast before his trade value drops anymore. I agree with your assessment on Schwartz, but he's always injured - at some point the Blues need a healthy star that can actually play. If Tank is just 'playing hurt' well, there's only room for one continual IR star on the team and that's Schwartz (and maybe Fabbri). Tarasenko does not skate, he can't stick handle, he puts in no effort, never covers his man, cannot back check, cannot fore-check, doesn't play well in his own zone. I've gone to the games, I've watched on TV, I've seen him up close - he's not a true star player, he's a coattails guy. Sure, if he goes to a good team (for the sake of argument lets say the Blues trade him+picks for Nylander) like Toronto - he can get away with coasting around and throwing one-timers at the twine because he'd be in a system that allows for that kind of one-dimensional play (and in a weak division no less). However, for the Blues, in the Central (toughest division in hockey) they need players that can actually play hockey and put in effort not a $6million man who can't be bothered to bend his knees even when only playing third line minutes. I made the argument two years ago that they should trade him while his hype/stats were at their peak and people thought I was nuts --- but now he's in his prime, he'll be north of 30 after the lockout and he's already looking like he fell off the cliff.

His NTC kicks in this summer, they need to move him before the deadline or they'll be stuck with a bottom-6 forward making top-6 money. The Blues organization doesn't have pockets deep enough to continue spending to the cap ceiling while under-performing and being a basement-dweller. If they keep dead-weight like Tarasenko around they're going to end up cutting actual talent elsewhere to make up for it - making the team THAT much worse. They need to accept that he's not the answer, and they need to accept that even though he sucks, he's probably going to put up bigger numbers on his next team than he will if he stays in STL unless of course they trade him to Arizona.

 

[Rowlet]

Who would you want to take his place?

Gillis would be perfect for the Blues, his best as a GM was always taking a core and surrounding them with the right supporting cast and getting everyone to buy into team dynamics and take massive pay cuts. Kesler at $5m, Sedins at 6m, Burrows at $2m, managing to get 6 top 4 D in the lineup all under $4.5m each etc

 

[BlueDream]

Wrong. His value will continue to drop. His play is soooo bad every night that he's either a bad player or he's hiding some serious injury. In either case they need to cut ties with him and fast before his trade value drops anymore. I agree with your assessment on Schwartz, but he's always injured - at some point the Blues need a healthy star that can actually play. If Tank is just 'playing hurt' well, there's only room for one continual IR star on the team and that's Schwartz (and maybe Fabbri). Tarasenko does not skate, he can't stick handle, he puts in no effort, never covers his man, cannot back check, cannot fore-check, doesn't play well in his own zone. I've gone to the games, I've watched on TV, I've seen him up close - he's not a true star player, he's a coattails guy. Sure, if he goes to a good team (for the sake of argument lets say the Blues trade him+picks for Nylander) like Toronto - he can get away with coasting around and throwing one-timers at the twine because he'd be in a system that allows for that kind of one-dimensional play (and in a weak division no less). However, for the Blues, in the Central (toughest division in hockey) they need players that can actually play hockey and put in effort not a $6million man who can't be bothered to bend his knees even when only playing third line minutes. I made the argument two years ago that they should trade him while his hype/stats were at their peak and people thought I was nuts --- but now he's in his prime, he'll be north of 30 after the lockout and he's already looking like he fell off the cliff.

His NTC kicks in this summer, they need to move him before the deadline or they'll be stuck with a bottom-6 forward making top-6 money. The Blues organization doesn't have pockets deep enough to continue spending to the cap ceiling while under-performing and being a basement-dweller. If they keep dead-weight like Tarasenko around they're going to end up cutting actual talent elsewhere to make up for it - making the team THAT much worse. They need to accept that he's not the answer, and they need to accept that even though he sucks, he's probably going to put up bigger numbers on his next team than he will if he stays in STL unless of course they trade him to Arizona.

I don't agree that he's a bottom 6 player. He's at the very least a 2nd line winger. You do make some other good points though that it could be troublesome if his value drops in a year. His overall game is poor for the most part. Some games he tries and looks good but those usually aren't the norm. The fact that his effort is called into question fairly often is alarming.

But still, he's not a guy that we should just trade for futures of course. Or just for the sake of it. A trade involving Tarasenko is one we would NEED to do well in. A 1 for 1 swap of forwards is probably the type of deal the Blues need to look at, ala the Heatley/Hossa trade back when both were in their prime and each got a change of scenery.

Who could that guy be? I'm having a tough time coming up with realistic names that make sense. Not Stone or Duchene from Ottawa. Nylander is meh and the Leafs really don't need to be trading their forwards for anyone but a top-pairing d-man. So our options would be...? I have nothing.

We'd need somebody in return who has the ability to put up 30 goals and 70 points a season. Other than possibly ROR, we'd have nobody else on the roster. And we've seen what that type of team looks like in the playoffs - not good enough. You need a couple guys that can flirt with PPG to be a threat.

So as of now it doesn't seem to make sense. I think we just bite the bullet and wait a year. In one year he will be turning 28, with 3.5 years left on his deal and should still have the ability to at least score 30 goals. I doubt his value drops to the point where he's worthless. So I think that'd be the time to deal him if it's not working out, and try to find the BPA in return when our team will hopefully be winning more games.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

I don't agree that he's a bottom 6 player. He's at the very least a 2nd line winger. You do make some other good points though that it could be troublesome if his value drops in a year. His overall game is poor for the most part. Some games he tries and looks good but those usually aren't the norm. The fact that his effort is called into question fairly often is alarming.

But still, he's not a guy that we should just trade for futures of course. Or just for the sake of it. A trade involving Tarasenko is one we would NEED to do well in. A 1 for 1 swap of forwards is probably the type of deal the Blues need to look at, ala the Heatley/Hossa trade back when both were in their prime and each got a change of scenery.

Who could that guy be? I'm having a tough time coming up with realistic names that make sense. Not Stone or Duchene from Ottawa. Nylander is meh and the Leafs really don't need to be trading their forwards for anyone but a top-pairing d-man. So our options would be...? I have nothing.

We'd need somebody in return who has the ability to put up 30 goals and 70 points a season. Other than possibly ROR, we'd have nobody else on the roster. And we've seen what that type of team looks like in the playoffs - not good enough. You need a couple guys that can flirt with PPG to be a threat.

So as of now it doesn't seem to make sense. I think we just bite the bullet and wait a year. In one year he will be turning 28, with 3.5 years left on his deal and should still have the ability to at least score 30 goals. I doubt his value drops to the point where he's worthless. So I think that'd be the time to deal him if it's not working out, and try to find the BPA in return when our team will hopefully be winning more games.

Again, you're forgetting the NTC. If we don't move him this year before the deadline we're stuck with him until he's 30.

I'd start by shopping him to the Blue Jackets, Panthers and Coyotes and try to get some cap relief. All 3 teams have talented under-25 players that are signed for less than $6million and can take on Tank's $7.5million cap hit.

 

[BlueDream]

Again, you're forgetting the NTC. If we don't move him this year before the deadline we're stuck with him until he's 30.

I'd start by shopping him to the Blue Jackets, Panthers and Coyotes and try to get some cap relief. All 3 teams have talented under-25 players that are signed for less than $6million and can take on Tank's $7.5million cap hit.

That's not how NTCs work.

It might be tougher to move him when it kicks in, but he might waive it. How do we know he wouldn't?

This is one of the most common things I see on here, it's the narrative that you can't trade a player once they have a NTC. It has been done, and also trading everyone before their clause kicks in isn't a way to run a hockey team.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

That's not how NTCs work.

It might be tougher to move him when it kicks in, but he might waive it. How do we know he wouldn't?

This is one of the most common things I see on here, it's the narrative that you can't trade a player once they have a NTC. It has been done, and also trading everyone before their clause kicks in isn't a way to run a hockey team.

It's been done but it's not a guarantee. And getting rid of an over-rated under-performing one dimensional player before his value dips even lower and you cannot move him without his consent is not 'trading everyone'.

 

[Celtic Note]

That's not how NTCs work.

It might be tougher to move him when it kicks in, but he might waive it. How do we know he wouldn't?

This is one of the most common things I see on here, it's the narrative that you can't trade a player once they have a NTC. It has been done, and also trading everyone before their clause kicks in isn't a way to run a hockey team.

I will just comment on the NTC part. Sure you might be able to trade a guy with one, but it severely limits your options. All the guy has to do is say no and the return drops. See Shattenkirk

 

[Majorityof1]

I will just comment on the NTC part. Sure you might be able to trade a guy with one, but it severely limits your options. All the guy has to do is say no and the return drops. See Shattenkirk

Shattenkirk didn't have an NTC. He just didn't have term and nobody was willing to pony up what Armstrong wanted without a commitment to sign.

Tarasenko does not skate, he can't stick handle, he puts in no effort, never covers his man, cannot back check, cannot fore-check, doesn't play well in his own zone. I've gone to the games, I've watched on TV, I've seen him up close - he's not a true star player, he's a coattails guy. Sure, if he goes to a good team (for the sake of argument lets say the Blues trade him+picks for Nylander) like Toronto - he can get away with coasting around and throwing one-timers at the twine because he'd be in a system that allows for that kind of one-dimensional play (and in a weak division no less).

Forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt when you think he would throw one-timers at the net if given free-reign to do whatever he wants. Tarasenko, as someone who has "gone to games" and "watched [him] on TV" should know, rarely takes one-timers. He likes to dust the puck off before shooting a wrister.

I don't think he was saying we need Backes back. But he was a true captain and the team never quit on him. We made the playoffs with Carlo Coliacovo on our first pairing and players like Dagostini, Berglund, and Stewart playing in the top 6. Why can't this roster win?

We also had Hitchcock coaching those rosters and different goaltenders. So maybe its on coaching or goaltending more than leadership? Regardless we moved on from those guys, both players and coach, for a reason. We had good regular season teams but were failing in the playoffs. We don't need to go back to that. We need to fix what's wrong here and move forward. Looking back is not the answer.

 

[Celtic Note]

Shattenkirk didn't have an NTC. He just didn't have term and nobody was willing to pony up what Armstrong wanted without a commitment to sign.




Forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt when you think he would throw one-timers at the net if given free-reign to do whatever he wants. Tarasenko, as someone who has "gone to games" and "watched [him] on TV" should know, rarely takes one-timers. He likes to dust the puck off before shooting a wrister.



We also had Hitchcock coaching those rosters and different goaltenders. So maybe its on coaching or goaltending more than leadership? Regardless we moved on from those guys, both players and coach, for a reason. We had good regular season teams but were failing in the playoffs. We don't need to go back to that. We need to fix what's wrong here and move forward. Looking back is not the answer.

I realize that he didn’t have a NTC, but he used his contract status like one.

 

[Hrkac Circus]

It's a nice thought, but the Blues always lose to the Kings and Hawks when it counts. I bet they'll outsuck us this year and ruin our hopes yet again.

This team looks awful though, so I wouldn't count us out.

Was watching the Hawks game last night... They spent about 10 minutes of the 3rd on a power play and still lost 3-2 on a long shot by the Canadians with 1:07 left, so...

 

[STL BLUES]

Ask yourself just one question;

Given Tarasenko's current and past performance, will he make it into the Hockey Hall of Fame?

At this point I doubt he would even get a single vote ...

Start shopping Tarasenko now and if nothing developes then continue to shop him next year. Some team will be happy to upgrade or add on.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Ask yourself just one question;

Given Tarasenko's current and past performance, will he make it into the Hockey Hall of Fame?

At this point I doubt he would even get a single vote ...

Start shopping Tarasenko now and if nothing developes then continue to shop him next year. Some team will be happy to upgrade or add on.

Seems like a weird premise.

 

[DeuceNine]

Wrong.

Wrong. Tarasenko doesn't take one-timers.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

I don’t yet advocate moving Tarasenko unless the return is overwhelming, but a NTC is a legitimate item to point out as consideration. I get surprised by how little the hockey media focuses on this. Jeff Skinner’s return was underwhelming, but it sounded like he used what he negotiated for himself in that deal.

Yes, you can do things to force the players hands, but you do have an additional constraint there that can often limit your return.

 

[carter333167]

I realize that he didn’t have a NTC, but he used his contract status like one.

Precisely the reason that I've been saying we need to fish or cut bait on anyone with 1.5 years left on their deal. Figure out whether we are going to extend them, whether they are willing to extend on reasonable terms, etc. etc. If we need to move them, do it now.

 

[Majorityof1]

Ask yourself just one question;

Given Tarasenko's current and past performance, will he make it into the Hockey Hall of Fame?

At this point I doubt he would even get a single vote ...

Start shopping Tarasenko now and if nothing developes then continue to shop him next year. Some team will be happy to upgrade or add on.

So trade every player that isn't a shoe-in for the HoF? Sounds difficult. We'd need to trade our whole team. A lot of teams would.

Of all our players, Tarasenko is probably the most likely to be a future HoFer. He has a legit shot at 500 goals. At his current career pace of 1 goal every 2.4 games, he'd need to play just short of 10 more seasons, which at 26 y.o. is possible. Yes, he would most likely need to step up his pace from his current production during his prime years. But he is still on a 26 goal pace this season. That is not horrible for a down year coming off of surgery and playing for a shit-show of a team.

 

[BlueDream]

I don’t yet advocate moving Tarasenko unless the return is overwhelming, but a NTC is a legitimate item to point out as consideration. I get surprised by how little the hockey media focuses on this. Jeff Skinner’s return was underwhelming, but it sounded like he used what he negotiated for himself in that deal.

Yes, you can do things to force the players hands, but you do have an additional constraint there that can often limit your return.

Skinner also only had 1 year left on his deal, which affected his return.

Tarasenko has a lot of term left.

I understand it's not easy but I don't think you trade someone just because his NTC is about to kick in unless you know for sure they're not in your long-term plans. We are certainly not at that point yet with Tarasenko I don't think. That's just bad business and would probably lead to a poor return in itself.

I realize that he didn’t have a NTC, but he used his contract status like one.

I think Shattenkirk was a very unique situation. Rarely do you see a player that is dead set on signing with their childhood favorite team and nobody else really.

I doubt there'd only be one team Tarasenko would be willing to go to.