Speculation: There is something going on between Toronto - Carolina (MOD NOTE IN OP)

[ToneDog]

If you can get rid of Zaitsevs contract (and bring in basically a cheaper, equivalent dman) you do it in a nano second.

Edit: TvR has avg about 1:30 TOI SH last 2 seasons. Also remember Carolina has many more options and a much better defence.

Why would the Canes be interested in TVR for Z ? I can see them moving TVR (because they have depth) for a forward but not another RHD.

 

[Unsustainable]

Toronto doesn’t want him either.

Oilers should take him

 

[Fogelhund]

Toronto doesn’t want him either.

Babcock is in love with him this year. Highest TOI for RHD, and highest Dzone starts of all D.

 

[Unsustainable]

Nylander (extended)
Gardiner
Zeitsev

For

Slavin
Pesce
1st

So you want a top pairing and a 1st Gardiner and Z?

Horrible is not even close

 

[Erndog]

Why would the Canes be interested in TVR for Z ? I can see them moving TVR (because they have depth) for a forward but not another RHD.

If you saw my original post, I was being half facetious about it. Just saying the Canes 'get an upgrade' in jest.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Oilers should take him

We already have Cowboy Zaitsev, no need.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Babcock is in love with him this year. Highest TOI for RHD, and highest Dzone starts of all D.

We’ve played ‘save coach from himself’ game before.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Of course he played 2nd pairing last year primarily. He also played a good bit (20%+) up on the 1st pair during tough games like vs. Pittsburgh.

Brett Pesce has played 80% of his Even Strength minutes on the 3rd pair this year while Faulk is playing on the 2nd pair. Doesn't mean Faulk is a better D than Pesce or that Pesce has declined significantly from last year (where he played a lot on the 1st pair). Where the player is currently placed doesn't say a lot about who is better or what limitations each player might have in this case.

Your conclusion of "The Canes moved Hanifin so now they can shelter Faulk and that is why he is playing better" is a bad take. Not remotely representative of how well Faulk and De Haan have played together this year. The De Haan-Faulk pairing this year has been one of the best 2nd pairs in the NHL. Hanifin-TVR last year was a bad 3rd pair among NHL standards even while being heavily sheltered.

Then what were you trying to refute by bringing up his partners last year?

I understand that, however usage does show a lot about the coaches opinion of a player.

That is not my take. My take is they moved Hanifin because his stock was still really high after a high draft selection and Carolina didnt like what they were seeing so sold at a good time.

Funny I was saying how sheltered Hanifin was last year and a decent amount of Carolina fans were all over me for saying so. Not so much this year though lol.

I also already said that having a good defensive partner could be a large part of Faulks return to form but ya you can ignore what you like.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Ah you again LoL....

Okay let's look at all his partners last year at even strength with 10% or more.

Fluery (34.3%)
Slavin (24.3%)
Hanifin (20.4%)
Dalhbeck (13.9%)

He definitely played the 2nd pairing last year primarily....

Hanifin-Faulk was the 2nd pairing to start.

Fleury/dahlbeck- tvr couldn't handle 3rd pairing comp, so Peters had Faulk carry Fleury/Dahlbeck while Hanifin Tvr got cushy comp and ozone starts.

60 games in pesce was shut down for shoulder surgery, so faulk played with slavin on the 1st pair.

Faulk didn't look good being asked to carry a 2nd pairing. He's playing against top pairs now with cdh because handy 'n' faulk go out with staal, who is used against the top comp while slavin Hamilton let aho do his thing.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I also already said that having a good defensive partner could be a large part of Faulks return to form but ya you can ignore what you like.

Its several things, but thats a large part of it. Cdh is awesome.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Hanifin-Faulk was the 2nd pairing to start.

Fleury/dahlbeck- tvr couldn't handle 3rd pairing comp, so Peters had Faulk carry Fleury/Dahlbeck while Hanifin Tvr got cushy comp and ozone starts.

60 games in pesce was shut down for shoulder surgery, so faulk played with slavin on the 1st pair.

Faulk didn't look good being asked to carry a 2nd pairing. He's playing against top pairs now with cdh because handy 'n' faulk go out with staal, who is used against the top comp while slavin Hamilton let aho do his thing.

Yup this is about what I remember you and others saying last year.

Makes sense, allows Hamilton and Aho to jive in the offensive zone and CDH to play the shutdown role. I also understand not wanting to put Hamilton + Faulk together so makes sense why Slavin isnt on the shutdown pairing.

 

[Volica]

Toronto's in a weird spot, where that offensive unit was going to have to carry them to any success; because that D certainly wasn't going to.
With a Matthews injury and Nylander hold out, that depth that Toronto gave up in the summer (to the LOLs and delight of Leafs fans) would have been pretty useful now.

In theory a F for D trade with Carolina makes sense. Carolina has true wealth on the back-end, and in theory Toronto has wealth on the forward group (in reality, it has to be one of the top 6F because outside of that there's actually pretty little value).

Nylander has to be the piece here. May as well trade a guy sitting at home for something that can help you. Nylander isn't signing team friendly, that's just how it's going to be. Not really sure what the deal would look like.

Pesce or Faulk and a Nylander + Holl framework would make sense to me (with pieces from Carolina to balance the trade). Carolina makes a big downgrade on D, but they have CDH who can pickup a few extra minutes and TVR who's not terrible. Carolina makes a big upgrade on forward. Team's got a lot of cap space, three talents Europeans they can build off on forward too.

 

[bleedgreen]

How can Zaitsev be even a thought for the canes?!?

 

[go comets]

Nylander for Pesce + 1st in 2019

Way too much from the Canes considering Nylander wants 8 million.... Nylander will have to be discounted a slight amount.....

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Toronto's in a weird spot, where that offensive unit was going to have to carry them to any success; because that D certainly wasn't going to.
With a Matthews injury and Nylander hold out, that depth that Toronto gave up in the summer (to the LOLs and delight of Leafs fans) would have been pretty useful now.

Kapanen is pacing to beat JVRs career best in his first full time season. You may remember Leaf fans telling you a JVR loss isn't that great due to the combination of Kapanen's skill plus being ten times better than JVR defensively. Kapanen is the second most used forward on PK while JVR was basically a PP specialist. Babcock used only Martin less than JVR and Bozak at ES (among regulars). Bozak hasn't been replaced offensively but like JVR was a defensive sieve. Yes they haven't been a defensive juggernaut yet this season but bear in mind that like offense, early numbers are very skewy and they don't really yet have their lines ironed out.

 

[Taluss]

Nylander for Pesce + 1st in 2019

Definitely not worth a first and Pesce

 

[powerstuck]

An unsigned Nylander who's rights you would own...

Toronto needs a shake up but I think it's the coach. Not sure if trading away an great offensive player will help our offence.

I guess many misunderstood my comment.

A signed Nylander (8M) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unsigned, sitting out Nylander.

And the two are not even close to be compared in value.

 

[Volica]

Kapanen is pacing to beat JVRs career best in his first full time season. You may remember Leaf fans telling you a JVR loss isn't that great due to the combination of Kapanen's skill plus being ten times better than JVR defensively. Kapanen is the second most used forward on PK while JVR was basically a PP specialist. Babcock used only Martin less than JVR and Bozak at ES (among regulars). Bozak hasn't been replaced offensively but like JVR was a defensive sieve. Yes they haven't been a defensive juggernaut yet this season but bear in mind that like offense, early numbers are very skewy and they don't really yet have their lines ironed out.

The same Kapanen that's got 2 points in his last 6 games, while still rocking an above 22% shooting percentage.
Easily sustainable for sure.

 

[bleedgreen]

Bleedgreen with the pending swish?

While pondering the possibilities it becomes obvious the move that leaves us with the best defense is moving TVR. Not hard for us to get value out of it, allows Fleury back to have a lefty there on the third pair and gives us one less guy for Fox to fight past if we think he’s actually that good.

Trading either Pesce or Faulk makes us a weaker team, regardless of the added skill up front. If we can extract something better than the second rounder we paid for him, it’s a bonus.

 

[Morbo]

Toronto's in a weird spot, where that offensive unit was going to have to carry them to any success; because that D certainly wasn't going to.
With a Matthews injury and Nylander hold out, that depth that Toronto gave up in the summer (to the LOLs and delight of Leafs fans) would have been pretty useful now.
.

Not really. there was good reason for said LOLs and delight.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

And since we're discussing Nylander...Closed.