The worst trade of JR’s Penguins career (so far)...

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,184
7,959
Through 6 GPs

Bleuger - 2G - 2A - 55 PT Pace
McCann - 2G - 2A - 55 PT Pace
Tanev - 2G - 1 A - 41 PT Pace
Jankowski - 1 G - 2 A - 41 PT Pace
Sceviour - 2G 27 PT Pace
Rodrigues - 1G 14 PT Pace

tenor.gif
Haha how many of those points came at even strength playing together since game 2? (Tanev, Jank, McCann)
giphy.gif


A simple sorry would be sufficient
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,486
73,657
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Haha how many of those points came at even strength playing together since game 2? (Tanev, Jank, McCann)
giphy.gif

The point everyone made was our bottom six was fine and Jankowski and Rodrigues were fringe NHLers that could contribute. They've done as much and our bottom six has been great.

Keep moving the goal posts though. You mocked me for saying Blueger was going to end up being the 3C and that he was a high end 3C option and so far he has been our best player and set up every tying goal.

As I said previous to the season, if Jankowski wasn't producing and Bleuger was he'd be pushed up to the 3C and you and others said NO JR SAID JANKOWSKI IS OUR 3C. Well, look at what has happened within 5 games. Exactly what myself and many said.

I'm not trying to be like I'm right our bottom six is awesome, but the entire argument was be patient and wait and see what Sullivan does with them before we get pissed about it. Which you seemed to take a huge issue with and literally post about every day multiple times.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,184
7,959
The point everyone made was our bottom six was fine and Jankowski and Rodrigues were fringe NHLers that could contribute. They've done as much and our bottom six has been great.

Keep moving the goal posts though.
Only time will tell, my friend. Let’s celebrate that EFraud won’t ruin line 1 any time soon.

Sully is finally making some better lineup decisions. O’Conner will get a shot. Good things are happening, or at least better things. I’m happy any time Lafferty or ERod aren’t wasting a roster spot.

I also think that JR knows he needs to find another top 9 winger so I am hoping that happens as well.
 
Last edited:

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
Only time will tell, my friend. Let’s celebrate that EFraud won’t ruin line 1 any time soon.

Sully is finally making some better lineup decisions. O’Conner will get a shot. Good things are happening, or at least better things. I’m happy any time Lafferty or ERod aren’t wasting a roster spot.

I also think that JR knows he needs to find another top 9 winger so I am hoping that happens as well.

I wouldn't say the Pens need another top 9 but it would be nice. Tanev and McCann are both very good wingers for the 3rd line. The top 9 looks pretty good now that Rodriguez is hurt. It is sad that is what it took for Sullivan to get the top 9 right. I am still waiting for him to switch Zucker and Guentzel. Zucker played well with Crosby last year and has done nothing with Malkin. You would think he would want to get Zucker going and Malkin also. Guentzel with Malkin would get Malkin on track and I think Zucker would also get going with Crosby. It sure would be worth a shot.

It is nice O'Connor is getting his chance. Hopefully he does well with it like POJ is doing. That would make the bottom 6 even stronger. Like I said we really don't need another forward but it could make the perfect lineup if Rutherford did and O'Connor proved ready.

Zucker-Crosby-Rust
Guentzel-Malkin-Kapenan
McCann-Blueger-RW trade
O'Connor-Jankowski-Tanev
ZAR, Lafferty, Rodriguez, Sceviour

That would be a very strong group.

I think it is strong now though because I do think Tanev is a very good 3rd line player.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
Let me know when we pick 1,2,1,2 four years in a row under a JR team.

Seriously, we have some of the worst fans on these boards. Rutherford gave enough talent last year for the team to finish with the 7th best record in the NHL with half his star players out for long stretches. Honestly don't think any team could of finished that high with that many key injuries.

This year Rutherford was told to cut real money payroll to under $75 million. To do that and still find a way to upgrade the team is a very hard job. I think Rutherford did a great job under those restrictions. So while other GM's had to just get under the cap Rutherford had to cut real money more than the vast majority of contenders. As a GM you are competing against 30 other GM's all trying to win also. Not every year your moves are going to be the best but the moves Rutherford made to build those 2016 and 2017 Cup team's was amazing taking an old slow team around the core to back to back Cup winners with only a one year transition is phenomenal.

2018 the team loses a hard fought series against the eventual Cup Champs and somehow the arm chair GM's blame that on Rutherford. The only difference between losing that series to the Caps compared to the two game 7 wins against the Caps during those Cup years was goalie play. In 2018 Murray got outplayed badly in net and that was the difference from winning a hard fought game 7's and losing a hard fought game 6 then.

2019 Rutherford actually started making some very good moves for the future by trading UFA to be players for players with term and young or in prime players. Deals like Pettersson for Sprong, McCann and Bjugstad for UFA Brassard and UFA Sheahan, UFA Hagelin for Pearson. To be able to make those deals with UFA's that all had been playing poorly that season was good asset management (for example Hagelin 16 games 1 goal and 2 assists). So while not all of those players worked out he got them for a bust prospect and 3 players playing poorly and gone in the summer for nothing. I certainly don't fault Rutherford for that season. The only real mistake Rutherford made was the JJ signing. Not every move works. JJ was coming off a poor year but the year before he had probably his best overall year as far as overall game. Rutherford gambled thinking JJ could get back to that and it didn't work out. It happens to the best of them. But Rutherford has made many more great moves than bad ones over his time hear. Signing JJ for no assets compared to getting Pettersson and Marino for Sprong and a 6th is not close to even. We lose some cap space but added two top 4 defenseman that both came on the team as 22 year olds for the future. All take that trade off again and again.

I think last year Rutherford again did a great job as I mentioned giving Sullivan a team that could still finish 7th in the NHL despite several key injuries to top players. I really don't think any other team could do that. Take MacKinnon, Landeskog, and several other key players out of tbe Aves team last year to equal our losses of Crosby/Malkin out all but 3 games together, Guentzel out for the whole second half, Dumoulin out for all but 20 some games, Rust, Marino, and the list went on. I don't think people appreciate what Rutherford's team he assembled was able to do finishing that high with all those injuries. I really think it finally was to much and they ran out of gas towards the end.

Every GM makes mistakes but Rutherford has done well competing against those other 30 GM's during his tenure with us. Yes some mistakes but no GM wins every trade and has every UFA signing work out. I think the core is surrounded with a group that is in it's prime, fast, and skilled. If we don't win another Cup it will be because the core doesn't have it anymore. That will be okay because 4 Cup Final appearances and 3 Cups is a pretty good showing for that core. If they can somehow manage to pull another one out at this age that is just a big bonus to them and us as fans. Let's appreciate all they have given to us over those years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SEALBound

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,243
19,328
Seriously, we have some of the worst fans on these boards. Rutherford gave enough talent last year for the team to finish with the 7th best record in the NHL with half his star players out for long stretches. Honestly don't think any team could of finished that high with that many key injuries.

This year Rutherford was told to cut real money payroll to under $75 million. To do that and still find a way to upgrade the team is a very hard job. I think Rutherford did a great job under those restrictions. So while other GM's had to just get under the cap Rutherford had to cut real money more than the vast majority of contenders. As a GM you are competing against 30 other GM's all trying to win also. Not every year your moves are going to be the best but the moves Rutherford made to build those 2016 and 2017 Cup team's was amazing taking an old slow team around the core to back to back Cup winners with only a one year transition is phenomenal.

2018 the team loses a hard fought series against the eventual Cup Champs and somehow the arm chair GM's blame that on Rutherford. The only difference between losing that series to the Caps compared to the two game 7 wins against the Caps during those Cup years was goalie play. In 2018 Murray got outplayed badly in net and that was the difference from winning a hard fought game 7's and losing a hard fought game 6 then.

2019 Rutherford actually started making some very good moves for the future by trading UFA to be players for players with term and young or in prime players. Deals like Pettersson for Sprong, McCann and Bjugstad for UFA Brassard and UFA Sheahan, UFA Hagelin for Pearson. To be able to make those deals with UFA's that all had been playing poorly that season was good asset management (for example Hagelin 16 games 1 goal and 2 assists). So while not all of those players worked out he got them for a bust prospect and 3 players playing poorly and gone in the summer for nothing. I certainly don't fault Rutherford for that season. The only real mistake Rutherford made was the JJ signing. Not every move works. JJ was coming off a poor year but the year before he had probably his best overall year as far as overall game. Rutherford gambled thinking JJ could get back to that and it didn't work out. It happens to the best of them. But Rutherford has made many more great moves than bad ones over his time hear. Signing JJ for no assets compared to getting Pettersson and Marino for Sprong and a 6th is not close to even. We lose some cap space but added two top 4 defenseman that both came on the team as 22 year olds for the future. All take that trade off again and again.

I think last year Rutherford again did a great job as I mentioned giving Sullivan a team that could still finish 7th in the NHL despite several key injuries to top players. I really don't think any other team could do that. Take MacKinnon, Landeskog, and several other key players out of tbe Aves team last year to equal our losses of Crosby/Malkin out all but 3 games together, Guentzel out for the whole second half, Dumoulin out for all but 20 some games, Rust, Marino, and the list went on. I don't think people appreciate what Rutherford's team he assembled was able to do finishing that high with all those injuries. I really think it finally was to much and they ran out of gas towards the end.

Every GM makes mistakes but Rutherford has done well competing against those other 30 GM's during his tenure with us. Yes some mistakes but no GM wins every trade and has every UFA signing work out. I think the core is surrounded with a group that is in it's prime, fast, and skilled. If we don't win another Cup it will be because the core doesn't have it anymore. That will be okay because 4 Cup Final appearances and 3 Cups is a pretty good showing for that core. If they can somehow manage to pull another one out at this age that is just a big bonus to them and us as fans. Let's appreciate all they have given to us over those years.

We can wax poetic about this and that with JR, but the harsh reality is the people down on this team have every right to be.

The Pens need to start with winning a playoff game, and work their way up from there.

Talk about being contenders seems kind of comical when they can’t even win a playoff game.

Being 1-9 in their last 10 playoff games has to be historically bad, not just in franchise history, but league history.

We are still seeing the same issues that have plagued this team for the last few years... so not be in denial about that doesn’t make posters bad fans, it just makes them realists.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
Brassard. And honestly it's not close. So many assets for a useless 3c.

Easy to say that after the fact. At that time Brassard was known as one of the best playoff performers being in the top 5 "Big Game Brass". Also the assets you speak of are a UFA defenseman that wasn't going to sign with us in Cole, a lower 1st round pick, a goalie prospect that wasn't doing much last I heard, and we switched 3rds which we get the better 3rd out of it. So obviously Brassard didn't work out but we got McCann for him which is probably a better asset than anything the Sens get out of what we gave them. Most likely that 1st round pick and goaltender won't even be equal to McCann. Such is life when trading for pieces to try and win Cups. Much rather gamble like that then giving 1st round picks and prospects for rentals like Shero used to do and many GM's still do. If that is Rutherford's worst deal then HOF greatness!
 
Last edited:

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
We can wax poetic about this and that with JR, but the harsh reality is the people down on this team have every right to be.

The Pens need to start with winning a playoff game, and work their way up from there.

Talk about being contenders seems kind of comical when they can’t even win a playoff game.

Being 1-9 in their last 10 playoff games has to be historically bad, not just in franchise history, but league history.

We are still seeing the same issues that have plagued this team for the last few years... so not be in denial about that doesn’t make posters bad fans, it just makes them realists.

The reality is winning a Cup isn't easy and all those things I brought up are the reality. So while they played poorly in the last two years in the playoffs that certainly can't be pushed on Rutherford. Like I said he gave Sullivan a team that could sustain injuries that would of made almost any other team finish as a lottery pick. To finish with the 7th best record in the NHL with those injuries was astounding. Like I said the team ran out of gas by the end of last season and then the long layoff with all those strange circumstances certainly wasn't a normal situation.

I am being realistic. As I said in the past post this core might be done and that is okay. Worth trying to go for it one last shot. If it doesn't work out they had a good run and given our fan base more than we deserve with the 4 Cup appearances and 3 Cups. If they win another one at this cores age that is just icing on the cake. I am satisfied and whatever happens I am fine with. This core has earned the chance to go for it one last time.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,243
19,328
The reality is winning a Cup isn't easy and all those things I brought up are the reality. So while they played poorly in the last two years in the playoffs that certainly can't be pushed on Rutherford. Like I said he gave Sullivan a team that could sustain injuries that would of made almost any other team finish as a lottery pick. To finish with the 7th best record in the NHL with those injuries was astounding. Like I said the team ran out of gas by the end of last season and then the long layoff with all those strange circumstances certainly wasn't a normal situation.

I am being realistic. As I said in the past post this core might be done and that is okay. Worth trying to go for it one last shot. If it doesn't work out they had a good run and given our fan base more than we deserve with the 4 Cup appearances and 3 Cups. If they win another one at this cores age that is just icing on the cake. I am satisfied and whatever happens I am fine with. This core has earned the chance to go for it one last time.

When your org has one win in their last 10 playoff games, it’s kind of obvious the GM isn’t doing something right.

So ya, we can put that on him. Sullivan. The players.

Whichever way you point the finger, it always comes back on the GM. He’s ultimately the one who picks the ingredients and the chef.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
When your org has one win in their last 10 playoff games, it’s kind of obvious the GM isn’t doing something right.

So ya, we can put that on him. Sullivan. The players.

Whichever way you point the finger, it always comes back on the GM. He’s ultimately the one who picks the ingredients and the chef.

You base it off 10 games and I base it off what happened as a whole. The Islander series was terrible but it can happen to anyone. I remember Tampa having such a great year getting knocked out by a worse Jackets team in the first round. Honestly the core played like crap that series. You are not going to win if Crosby only has one point. Maybe the core is cooked but I don't blame Rutherford for giving them some more chances to get it done before going full rebuild eventually.

Last year Rutherford did an amazing job considering the team being able to finish 7th overall with all those injuries that would of made most teams a lottery pick. Putting the blame for the playoffs with that strange situation of the long layoff in a short 5 game series is frankly ridiculous. Rutherford obviously put together a group that amazing survived injuries that should of had them no place near the top and most would of finished at the bottom. So while your correct in that 1-9 in the playoffs sucks that is more on the core than Rutherford. Rutherford is willing to give that core another shot and I am also. If it doesn't work out I will thank them for the great memories and be satisfied with the Crosby era.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,243
19,328
You base it off 10 games and I base it off what happened as a whole. The Islander series was terrible but it can happen to anyone. I remember Tampa having such a great year getting knocked out by a worse Jackets team in the first round. Honestly the core played like crap that series. You are not going to win if Crosby only has one point. Maybe the core is cooked but I don't blame Rutherford for giving them some more chances to get it done before going full rebuild eventually.

Last year Rutherford did an amazing job considering the team being able to finish 7th overall with all those injuries that would of made most teams a lottery pick. Putting the blame for the playoffs with that strange situation of the long layoff in a short 5 game series is frankly ridiculous. Rutherford obviously put together a group that amazing survived injuries that should of had them no place near the top and most would of finished at the bottom. So while your correct in that 1-9 in the playoffs sucks that is more on the core than Rutherford. Rutherford is willing to give that core another shot and I am also. If it doesn't work out I will thank them for the great memories and be satisfied with the Crosby era.

I can only base it off ten games because that’s all the playoff games they have been able to play in that span because... guess why?

JR saved this org from wasting the legacies of Crosby and Malkin and I’ll probably never be mad at the guy.

I’m about as unbiased towards him as a Pens fan could be. I have no real anger or agenda to see him fired.

However, I think he badly lost his way in 2017 and it is what it is.

We could do this dance back and forth about who to blame, but again, JR is the main man stirring the drink here.

Not being able to put together the right mix to win more than 1 playoff game in the last 10 is atrocious by any standards we want to use.

I said this before, but we as a board all were mostly sick of of Shero sitting on his hands and were clamoring for a proactive GM that got things done.

We got what we wanted and he brought b2b cups, but JRs crazy came out after and that’s the deal with the devil you make when wishing for a GM like him.

So it’s sucks he went off the deep end, but I’m more than fine with the consequences of our collective wish.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gurglesons

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
I can only base it off ten games because that’s all the playoff games they have been able to play in that span because... guess why?

JR saved this org from wasting the legacies of Crosby and Malkin and I’ll probably never be mad at the guy.

I’m about as unbiased towards him as a Pens fan could be. I have no real anger or agenda to see him fired.

However, I think he badly lost his way in 2017 and it is what it is.

We could do this dance back and forth about who to blame, but again, JR is the main man stirring the drink here.

Not being able to put together the right mix to win more than 1 playoff game in the last 10 is atrocious by any standards we want to use.

I said this before, but we as a board all were mostly sick of of Shero sitting on his hands and were clamoring for a proactive GM that got things done.

We got what we wanted and he brought b2b cups, but JRs crazy came out after and that’s the deal with the devil you make when wishing for a GM like him.

So it’s sucks he went off the deep end, but I’m more than fine with the consequences of our collective wish.

You put the blame on Rutherford and I put the blame on the core. I don't blame Rutherford for giving this core these last opportunities. This is your core in the last 2 playoffs

2019

Crosby 4 games 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 goal 2 assists
Letang 4 games 1 assist

2020

Crosby 4 games 2 goals 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 assist
Letang 4 games 0 points

That's how you go 1-9. This production happens again in the playoffs it is time for a full rebuild but I am fine giving this core one last shot, they earned it.

Rutherford put a group around the core that survived devastating injuries that would of sunk any team last year to a lottery pick. The Pens team Rutherford assembled not only survived those injuries but finished with the 7th best record in the NHL. They finally ran out of gas towards the end but that was a valiant effort under those circumstances. Really can't blame Rutherford unless you say he should of blown up the core. I think the core earned that chance to get things working again. If not this year then I agree it is time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SEALBound

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,243
19,328
You put the blame on Rutherford and I put the blame on the core. I don't blame Rutherford for giving this core these last opportunities. This is your core in the last 2 playoffs

2019

Crosby 4 games 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 goal 2 assists
Letang 4 games 1 assist

2020

Crosby 4 games 2 goals 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 assist
Letang 4 games 0 points

That's how you go 1-9. This production happens again in the playoffs it is time for a full rebuild but I am fine giving this core one last shot, they earned it.

It was pretty clear the core needed help around them since 2009 when they carried the Pens to a cup.

For years many of us argued they couldn’t just do things themselves and needed help.... just as McDavid and Dri are finding out.

So if the core needed help even in their prime, what do you think they need now?

If you as a GM decide to keep an aging core around, you better build a strong team all around them.

Relying on your aging core to carry your team on their achy backs is a surefire way to go 1-9.

JR trying to do that and actually doing it the right way, with the right mix, are entirely different things.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,486
73,657
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
You put the blame on Rutherford and I put the blame on the core. I don't blame Rutherford for giving this core these last opportunities. This is your core in the last 2 playoffs

2019

Crosby 4 games 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 goal 2 assists
Letang 4 games 1 assist

2020

Crosby 4 games 2 goals 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 assist
Letang 4 games 0 points

That's how you go 1-9. This production happens again in the playoffs it is time for a full rebuild but I am fine giving this core one last shot, they earned it.

Rutherford put a group around the core that survived devastating injuries that would of sunk any team last year to a lottery pick. The Pens team Rutherford assembled not only survived those injuries but finished with the 7th best record in the NHL. They finally ran out of gas towards the end but that was a valiant effort under those circumstances. Really can't blame Rutherford unless you say he should of blown up the core. I think the core earned that chance to get things working again. If not this year then I agree it is time.

You’re saying he should blow up the core by not admitting he’s failed and largely failed because of his own arrogance. The reality is it is a lot easier to get a GM to come in and change the vibe then it is to move Crosby, Malkin or Letang and try to find a reasonable replacement.
 

TKalltheTime

KILLER PARTIES, ALMOST KILLED ME!
Jan 5, 2018
2,930
2,211
Los Angeles, CA
Seriously, we have some of the worst fans on these boards. Rutherford gave enough talent last year for the team to finish with the 7th best record in the NHL with half his star players out for long stretches. Honestly don't think any team could of finished that high with that many key injuries.

This year Rutherford was told to cut real money payroll to under $75 million. To do that and still find a way to upgrade the team is a very hard job. I think Rutherford did a great job under those restrictions. So while other GM's had to just get under the cap Rutherford had to cut real money more than the vast majority of contenders. As a GM you are competing against 30 other GM's all trying to win also. Not every year your moves are going to be the best but the moves Rutherford made to build those 2016 and 2017 Cup team's was amazing taking an old slow team around the core to back to back Cup winners with only a one year transition is phenomenal.

2018 the team loses a hard fought series against the eventual Cup Champs and somehow the arm chair GM's blame that on Rutherford. The only difference between losing that series to the Caps compared to the two game 7 wins against the Caps during those Cup years was goalie play. In 2018 Murray got outplayed badly in net and that was the difference from winning a hard fought game 7's and losing a hard fought game 6 then.

2019 Rutherford actually started making some very good moves for the future by trading UFA to be players for players with term and young or in prime players. Deals like Pettersson for Sprong, McCann and Bjugstad for UFA Brassard and UFA Sheahan, UFA Hagelin for Pearson. To be able to make those deals with UFA's that all had been playing poorly that season was good asset management (for example Hagelin 16 games 1 goal and 2 assists). So while not all of those players worked out he got them for a bust prospect and 3 players playing poorly and gone in the summer for nothing. I certainly don't fault Rutherford for that season. The only real mistake Rutherford made was the JJ signing. Not every move works. JJ was coming off a poor year but the year before he had probably his best overall year as far as overall game. Rutherford gambled thinking JJ could get back to that and it didn't work out. It happens to the best of them. But Rutherford has made many more great moves than bad ones over his time hear. Signing JJ for no assets compared to getting Pettersson and Marino for Sprong and a 6th is not close to even. We lose some cap space but added two top 4 defenseman that both came on the team as 22 year olds for the future. All take that trade off again and again.

I think last year Rutherford again did a great job as I mentioned giving Sullivan a team that could still finish 7th in the NHL despite several key injuries to top players. I really don't think any other team could do that. Take MacKinnon, Landeskog, and several other key players out of tbe Aves team last year to equal our losses of Crosby/Malkin out all but 3 games together, Guentzel out for the whole second half, Dumoulin out for all but 20 some games, Rust, Marino, and the list went on. I don't think people appreciate what Rutherford's team he assembled was able to do finishing that high with all those injuries. I really think it finally was to much and they ran out of gas towards the end.

Every GM makes mistakes but Rutherford has done well competing against those other 30 GM's during his tenure with us. Yes some mistakes but no GM wins every trade and has every UFA signing work out. I think the core is surrounded with a group that is in it's prime, fast, and skilled. If we don't win another Cup it will be because the core doesn't have it anymore. That will be okay because 4 Cup Final appearances and 3 Cups is a pretty good showing for that core. If they can somehow manage to pull another one out at this age that is just a big bonus to them and us as fans. Let's appreciate all they have given to us over those years.
I had to stop reading right there, I was laughing too hard.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
You’re saying he should blow up the core by not admitting he’s failed and largely failed because of his own arrogance. The reality is it is a lot easier to get a GM to come in and change the vibe then it is to move Crosby, Malkin or Letang and try to find a reasonable replacement.

I am not for busting this core up yet and that is why I don't blame Rutherford. Sorry I showed the cores numbers the last two playoffs. They are terrible despite having good linemates to play with. If they can't do it this season with the wingers we have now then it is on them not Rutherford. Again I am not mad at Crosby, Malkin, and Letang but they just might not be able to deliver anymore. Obviously I haven't made that decision yet and believe this team can still win a Cup but another first round loss with those 3 underperforming again could sway me it is time for a rebuild. We are talking about our core going to be 34, 34, and 35 before next season. So if they do have another playoff disappointment with them not showing up then maybe it is time.

I believe in this group and I like to be an optimist but that core needs to produce this postseason. No team can win without their best players doing well and for the past two years our core hasn't. Everything I said in those posts are accurate about Rutherford's time with the Pens. I believe he has given this group the players to win but the core hasn't played well when it counts during the playoffs. I wouldn't mind seeing if they could do it with a new coach but Rutherford obviously has given them a team to work with. Not many teams could of survived those key injuries last season and still finish with the 7th best record in the NHL. Most would of been in tbe bottom 7.

Personally I am not blaming anyone and am not putting much into those last two playoffs. Tampa got slammed the same year as the Pens and to a worse team in 2019 and last year was not a normal situation with the long layoff and a 5 game series. That is not the same as being in mid season form and losing in a 7 game series. So while the core didn't play well it is hard to put much into that. That was more like preseason hockey after that layoff.
 
Last edited:

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
12,697
12,034
It's okay to admit that JR helped this team get better AND that he's made mistakes
 

CactusPens

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
28
47
Sending Oleksiak back to the Stars a better player for the same 4th pick we acquired him less than a year after signing him to a contract extension.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,184
7,959
You put the blame on Rutherford and I put the blame on the core. I don't blame Rutherford for giving this core these last opportunities. This is your core in the last 2 playoffs

2019

Crosby 4 games 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 goal 2 assists
Letang 4 games 1 assist

2020

Crosby 4 games 2 goals 1 assist
Malkin 4 games 1 assist
Letang 4 games 0 points

That's how you go 1-9. This production happens again in the playoffs it is time for a full rebuild but I am fine giving this core one last shot, they earned it.

Rutherford put a group around the core that survived devastating injuries that would of sunk any team last year to a lottery pick. The Pens team Rutherford assembled not only survived those injuries but finished with the 7th best record in the NHL. They finally ran out of gas towards the end but that was a valiant effort under those circumstances. Really can't blame Rutherford unless you say he should of blown up the core. I think the core earned that chance to get things working again. If not this year then I agree it is time.
We keep hearing that they were the 7th best team last year, but we lost to the 24th best team in the playoffs. We were the more experienced team, older, and were well rested. Hell, Jake was even back. We’ve become the Steelers over the last 3 years; good regular seasons but pathetic post seasons.

JR has gone off the rails since we won the cup. He’s been on a multi year quest to find a 3C, pissing away so many assets in the pursuit. He signed a bunch of crappy free agents along the way, and made some poor trades.

Our prospect pool is embarrassing; I know he trades a lot of picks, but you have to hit on someone every now and then. Even Shero drafted some solid players in late round picks towards the end of his reign of terror. He’s been able to sign some college free agents to make up for some of the wasted picks.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to extend Sully after the Isles series should be fired. The team won’t fire Sully because cutting real dollars is the number one priority of ownership right now. When you are punching pennies, you turn a blind eye to a coach that has no idea what he’s doing. If Rutherford has full discretion to decide Sully’s fate, keeping him here might be his worst decision he’s made.

JR is costing this team millions this season to pay players to NOT play here in a year, when fans aren’t allowed to come to the games.
 
Last edited:

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,243
19,328
I am not for busting this core up yet and that is why I don't blame Rutherford. Sorry I showed the cores numbers the last two playoffs. They are terrible despite having good linemates to play with. If they can't do it this season with the wingers we have now then it is on them not Rutherford. Again I am not mad at Crosby, Malkin, and Letang but they just might not be able to deliver anymore. Obviously I haven't made that decision yet and believe this team can still win a Cup but another first round loss with those 3 underperforming again could sway me it is time for a rebuild. We are talking about our core going to be 34, 34, and 35 before next season. So if they do have another playoff disappointment with them not showing up then maybe it is time.

I believe in this group and I like to be an optimist but that core needs to produce this postseason. No team can win without their best players doing well and for the past two years our core hasn't. Everything I said in those posts are accurate about Rutherford's time with the Pens. I believe he has given this group the players to win but the core hasn't played well when it counts during the playoffs. I wouldn't mind seeing if they could do it with a new coach but Rutherford obviously has given them a team to work with. Not many teams could of survived those key injuries last season and still finish with the 7th best record in the NHL. Most would of been in tbe bottom 7.

Personally I am not blaming anyone and am not putting much into those last two playoffs. Tampa got slammed the same year as the Pens and to a worse team in 2019 and last year was not a normal situation with the long layoff and a 5 game series. That is not the same as being in mid season form and losing in a 7 game series. So while the core didn't play well it is hard to put much into that. That was more like preseason hockey after that layoff.

Here is a simple exercise....

How many playoff games have all of JRs acquisitions help them win in the last 10?

Zucker helped them win one game... and that’s literally the only time any one of JRs acquisitions have helped them win a playoff game during this miserable streak.

Think of all the considerable assets he’s used over the last few years via trade and valuable cap space... and all his moves have helped the core win one whole playoff game.

Not a single one of these guys has stepped up and helped them win a playoff game outside of game 1 at Mon.

And you don’t think JR is culpable in this?

Once again, making a bunch of moves is not the same as making the right moves.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Andy99

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
We keep hearing that they were the 7th best team last year, but we lost to the 24th best team in the playoffs. We were the more experienced team, older, and were well rested. Hell, Jake was even back. We’ve become the Steelers over the last 3 years; good regular seasons but pathetic post seasons.

JR has gone off the rails since we won the cup. He’s been on a multi year quest to find a 3C, pissing away so many assets in the pursuit. He signed a bunch of crappy free agents along the way, and made some poor trades.

Our prospect pool is embarrassing; I know he trades a lot of picks, but you have to hit on someone every now and then. Even Shero drafted some solid players in late round picks towards the end of his reign of terror. He’s been able to sign some college free agents to make up for some of the wasted picks.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to extend Sully after the Isles series should be fired. The team won’t fire Sully because cutting real dollars is the number one priority of ownership right now. When you are punching pennies, you turn a blind eye to a coach that has no idea what he’s doing. If Rutherford has full discretion to decide Sully’s fate, keeping him here might be his worst decision he’s made.

JR is costing this team millions this season to pay players to NOT play here in a year, when fans aren’t allowed to come to the games.

We lost in a 5 game series after a several month layoff. That is just like this season with no preseason games. That is a big difference from playoff hockey after a while year of playing when everyone is in game form. If you want to put a lot of stock into that and blame Rutherford for why Malkin had 1 assist and Letang had zero points with Crosby having 3 points be my guest. I disagree putting that blame on Rutherford. Rutherford deserves the credit for giving the Pens a team deep enough to survive injuries to most of their top players and still finish 7th in the NHL. I don't think any other team could of done that. I find it ridiculous to say it was Rutherford's fault for the Pens losing that 5 game series with months between the last game. Your entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree.

Bottom line is the core has not shown up the past two playoff years. I certainly don't fault them for the strange playoff situation last year with the big time between the regular season and playoffs. The year before has no excuse but it happens to the best of them and did that year against Tampa who got swept by a worse team than us. The core lost that series and not Rutherford. Just like this season it has been our depth that Rutherford has assembled that helped us stay competitive this year with our core starting of poorly again.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
Here is a simple exercise....

How many playoff games have all of JRs acquisitions help them win in the last 10?

Zucker helped them win one game... and that’s literally the only time any one of JRs acquisitions have helped them win a playoff game during this miserable streak.

Think of all the considerable assets he’s used over the last few years via trade and valuable cap space... and all his moves have helped the core win one whole playoff game.

Not a single one of these guys has stepped up and helped them win a playoff game outside of game 1 at Mon.

And you don’t think JR is culpable in this?

Once again, making a bunch of moves is not the same as making the right moves.

Again, why is it those players fault over the core not performing? Placing the blame on Rutherford seems extreme when he has done a lot of nice moves since the middle of 2019.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,104
18,215
Again, why is it those players fault over the core not performing? Placing the blame on Rutherford seems extreme when he has done a lot of nice moves since the middle of 2019.

People have an axe to grind. I have no other reasonable explanation.

Looking at the line ups he's provided - younger, faster, more skilled...all providing Sid and Geno with the "more help" we've yearned for...I mean, on paper JR has done his job. Well I might add under the circumstances. It's up to the coach to coach and the players to execute. JR can't push a controller button and give Malkin that burst of speed when he's lazy, he can't tell Sid to not make that long cross-ice pass that gets picked off 87% of the time, and he can't manipulate the goalies' arms and legs to make saves. End of the day, it's on them.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,184
7,959
We lost in a 5 game series after a several month layoff. That is just like this season with no preseason games. That is a big difference from playoff hockey after a while year of playing when everyone is in game form. If you want to put a lot of stock into that and blame Rutherford for why Malkin had 1 assist and Letang had zero points with Crosby having 3 points be my guest. I disagree putting that blame on Rutherford. Rutherford deserves the credit for giving the Pens a team deep enough to survive injuries to most of their top players and still finish 7th in the NHL. I don't think any other team could of done that. I find it ridiculous to say it was Rutherford's fault for the Pens losing that 5 game series with months between the last game. Your entitled to your opinion but I strongly disagree.

Bottom line is the core has not shown up the past two playoff years. I certainly don't fault them for the strange playoff situation last year with the big time between the regular season and playoffs. The year before has no excuse but it happens to the best of them and did that year against Tampa who got swept by a worse team than us. The core lost that series and not Rutherford. Just like this season it has been our depth that Rutherford has assembled that helped us stay competitive this year with our core starting of poorly again.
Every team was in the same situation. That’s ridiculous to give them a pass.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->