TV: The Wire All Purpose Thread Part 3: World just keeps turning, right?

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
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Montreal, QC
Well, I definitely disagree with the "fake-edgy, let me say some real street-smart badass ****" bit. I don't think that's entirely accurate, but I can kind of see why you might get that impression initially. Was the line that you pointed out meant to be an example of that?

I do think that it's entirely fair criticism that the show sometimes gets a little too precious and writer-ly in the way that it's delivered. You can tell that David Simon has a grab-bag of big profound quotes that make you think in mind that he wants to set up in the show, and sometimes that comes across as feeling too on the nose (he is a journalist after-all). That continues to happen throughout the show. They're all generally pretty great quotes in isolation that ring pretty true and are entirely appropriate, though, so some people might think you're crazy for pointing that out.

The show does so many things beautifully and admirably that even if you consider all of these things flaws, it still holds up brilliantly, though.

Yeah, that one. I mean, the opening scene is a brilliant set-up to get you right into the atmopshere of the series and it's dynamics but it's hard not to be taken out of it when the writing so obviously tries to draw attention to itself instead of the story and it's characters. Even the chicken nuggets scene or the chess scene. Yeah, the point being made are interesting/true but as you said, it does feel like David Dimon has a '' grab-bag of big profound quotes '' and that sometimes the scenes's only purpose seem to serve the purpose of show-horning the quote/thought in without any consideration for how organic it'll feel (which it doesn't often to me, besides maybe the chicken nugget scene). With that said, I'm still watching - albeit no where near as fast as I've watched The Sopranos, which never suffers from the same issue - and it is a good watch, with Simon and his crew getting the feel of the street in a way that feels just right and with characters who are interesting in and of themselves. I guess my problem is really just with the dialogue sometimes, the sort of flashy '' hey look at me being witty and blow-mindingly real (while still being cool as shit) '' that can grate me pretty fast. With that said - and I'm still really early in the show - I wish we could see more of Avon Barksdale. Easily the best character so far for me, but I've always liked Wood Harris and his character reminds me a little of his character in Paid in Full, which I've always thought was an underrated street flick.
 

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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Yeah, that one. I mean, the opening scene is a brilliant set-up to get you right into the atmopshere of the series and it's dynamics but it's hard not to be taken out of it when the writing so obviously tries to draw attention to itself instead of the story and it's characters. Even the chicken nuggets scene or the chess scene. Yeah, the point being made are interesting/true but as you said, it does feel like David Dimon has a '' grab-bag of big profound quotes '' and that sometimes the scenes's only purpose seem to serve the purpose of show-horning the quote/thought in without any consideration for how organic it'll feel (which it doesn't often to me, besides maybe the chicken nugget scene). With that said, I'm still watching - albeit no where near as fast as I've watched The Sopranos, which never suffers from the same issue - and it is a good watch, with Simon and his crew getting the feel of the street in a way that feels just right and with characters who are interesting in and of themselves. I guess my problem is really just with the dialogue sometimes, the sort of flashy '' hey look at me being witty and blow-mindingly real (while still being cool as ****) '' that can grate me pretty fast. With that said - and I'm still really early in the show - I wish we could see more of Avon Barksdale. Easily the best character so far for me, but I've always liked Wood Harris and his character reminds me a little of his character in Paid in Full, which I've always thought was an underrated street flick.
To be fair, though, the "Got to. This America." quote in the first scene is supposed to be cringey, like the kind of thing that a kid on the street might think sounds cool and meaningful. The detectives raise their eyebrows at it in disbelief when discussing it in the very next scene. I don't think you're supposed to watch it and go "Wow... So true," you're supposed to watch it and think "Jesus Christ, is this guy serious?"

Agreed on the chess scene having an on-the-nose-ness to it that keeps it from being as good as it can be, although I still find that scene really great, truthful, and memorable regardless.

I don't think that's evidence of the show trying to sound bad-*** and edgy, though. Just that it doesn't feel quite as understated and organic as one might want it to be, and that a more natural artist would have the good sense to avoid.
 
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Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
25,086
14,269
Montreal, QC
To be fair, though, the "Got to. This America." quote in the first scene is supposed to be cringey, like the kind of thing that a kid on the street might think sounds cool and meaningful. The detectives raise their eyebrows at it in disbelief when discussing it in the very next scene. I don't think you're supposed to watch it and go "Wow... So true," you're supposed to watch it and think "Jesus Christ, is this guy serious?"

Agreed on the chess scene having an on-the-nose-ness to it that keeps it from being as good as it can be, although I still find that scene really great, truthful, and memorable regardless.

I don't think that's evidence of the show trying to sound bad-*** and edgy, though. Just that it doesn't feel quite as understated and organic as one might want it to be, and that a more natural artist would have the good sense to avoid.

What do you mean with the last phrase?
 

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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??
What do you mean with the last phrase?
Just that I don't think David Simon (and most TV showrunners, really) have the same kind of deft artistic sensibilities that I tend to associate with artists like my favorite filmmakers (understandably).

I've always seen The Wire and David Simon as an example where a journalist with a lot of stories, ideas, and insights to share steps out of his natural element to make a TV show and strikes inspired gold. There's some awkwardness to that transition (a bit too on-the-nose emphasis on quotable lines being one of them), but for the most part, everything comes together (including those lines) and works out beautifully in the end.
 
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Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
25,086
14,269
Montreal, QC
Not everything is going to be perfection when you have tens of hours of dialogue.

The Sopranos comes dangerously close. Dekalog and Horace and Pete as well, but they're roughly 10 hours each. Still, I'm only a few hours in with The Wire, and just because your point rings true, does not mean it's not worth talking about.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
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The Sopranos comes dangerously close. Dekalog and Horace and Pete as well, but they're roughly 10 hours each. Still, I'm only a few hours in with The Wire, and just because your point rings true, does not mean it's not worth talking about.

Clearly.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,345
59,251
Ottawa, ON
Don't take it so badly. I'm not doing it to **** with you, I swear.

That’s fine - they just aren’t good comparators in my mind.

Sopranos is a character study but in the Wire they are archetypes or representative amalgams of numerous individuals.

The dialogue serves a different purpose.

There are more awkward speeches and metaphors to come.
 

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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Vancouver, BC
The Sopranos comes dangerously close. Dekalog and Horace and Pete as well, but they're roughly 10 hours each. Still, I'm only a few hours in with The Wire, and just because your point rings true, does not mean it's not worth talking about.
I'd be curious about how you might react to something like Cowboy Bebop.
 

Comfort Eagle

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Feb 28, 2008
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Watching this again and I must say that while I miss a lot of the characters of season 1,season 2 is still a good season. Upon first watch I was let down by season 2 but I was wrong, it is a good season and important to the ultimate story arc if you ask me.
 

Shareefruck

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Apr 2, 2005
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Vancouver, BC
Watching this again and I must say that while I miss a lot of the characters of season 1,season 2 is still a good season. Upon first watch I was let down by season 2 but I was wrong, it is a good season and important to the ultimate story arc if you ask me.
Absolutely. It's on par with the best seasons-- just gives a bit of a tougher first impression.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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I don't think the chess scene is meant to be a brilliant allegory on the world we live in and "the game", more that D was trying to put the game into terms Bodie and Wallace could understand and Bodie was stuck on the idea of being able to "make it to the top", which was a staple of his character through his entire arc in the series.
 
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Shareefruck

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Sounds interesting. 20 minutes episodes?
25 minutes. 26 episodes total. English dub is actually better, and doesn't demand to be binged, so you can take your time with it.

Every episode is its own self-contained episodic genre experiment/loving homage that's carefully thought out, brilliantly executed in terms of animation and sound, and filled with charm, wit, style and tastefulness. There are occasional hints of an ongoing mythology behind the characters that hold it all together, and the meatier themes are all kept pretty well beneath the surface, left for interpretation, and slowly exposed but never called out directly (the themes themselves and how they're handled work oddly similarly to Horace and Pete, actually-- you get a major sense of characters being unable to run away from their past and trying to sedate themselves with uncaring aloofness and monotony). One could easily just take it at face value and ignore it completely. And bebop jazz set to this noir space cowboy thing, with a protagonist that feels like Bob Dylan crossed with Bruce Lee is just about the coolest aesthetic ever.

One of my favorites (and outside of 2-3 directors, I kind of hate Anime).

And honestly, how can anyone not love this opening?



Definitely watch this instead of watching something like Rick and Morty like you brought up last time, which isn't in the same stratosphere, IMO.
Definitely don't stop watching The Wire, though. It's worth charging through, even with reservations.
 
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Sep 19, 2008
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Watching this again and I must say that while I miss a lot of the characters of season 1,season 2 is still a good season. Upon first watch I was let down by season 2 but I was wrong, it is a good season and important to the ultimate story arc if you ask me.

2 and 5 were disappointing on first watch

The second time you watch through you appreciate them more. I was interested in the working class dock story and the union and Frank Sobotka. I was interested in the newspaper angle and Gus Haynes' battles against Klebenow.
 
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Interesting read

The bitter resonance of The Wire's fake news plotline, a decade later

In 2018, you hear a lot about “fake news,” especially from the people who benefit from fake news. It’s really not a new idea—look up “The Great Moon Hoax”—and whenever The Wire tries to address the problems of the journalism industry head-on, it can feel reductive. But ten years later, newspapers have only declined further. And the greater meaning of season 5 has never been more clear. At a certain point, everyonebecomes Scott Templeton. Everyone’s creating fake news, juking reality the way that law-enforcement managers would juke the stats in earlier seasons.

“Who gives a damn if we fake a couple of murders that we’re never gonna solve, huh?” Lester says. “The dead men don’t care. No one cares.” I never noticed this line before, and now it sounds like the real bleak thesis of The Wire‘s final season. You expect malicious lies from some people—ambitious politicians, corporations with something to hide, anyone engaged in an illegal activity like drug dealing or collusion with a foreign government. But the saddest thing about The Wire‘s final season is how it suggests that even the good guys have given up on truth. Some aspect of the crusade for justice has gone meta. Goodness itself now just a counter-spin on badness. The very foundation of the battle for Baltimore’s soul now depends on “a lie agreed upon,” to borrow a sainted phrase from HBO’s Deadwood. Heroism needs its own fake news
 

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
25,086
14,269
Montreal, QC
Yeah, getting a lot more into it. The writing seems a bit more under-stated for now, which I like. Love the shooting scenes too. Very thrilling despite the lack of actual action. Wee-Bey and Omar going at it was great.

Also, feels like I've been finding shows more rewarding than movies recently. I've been a lot more willing to indulge myself in them and keep my concentration.
 

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
25,086
14,269
Montreal, QC
Holy hell, there's an awesome reference to one of my favorite movies in S2E4. When Bubs and Johnny are walking and Johnny is telling him about a couple giving birth to a mute with the mother walking out on them and the father coming to think his menstruating daughter has been raped is a reference to I Stand Alone by Gaspar Noe, a small, arthouse french film. Didn't think it'd have been on the radar there. Kinda blown away by this.

'Carne'/'I Stand Alone' Reference on 'The Wire'? | MovieChat
 

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