The 'What About Svech?' Thread

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Why not say the same about Rasmussen? I mean he was up here all last year, didn't get injured and can't make the roster this year? If you're going to bag on Svech then where's the "What about Rasmussen?" thread?

Ras was here last year because it was either that or juniors. If he could've he likely would've spent the entire season in the AHL.

And Svech looked good in his extremely limited ice time with the Wings.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Why not say the same about Rasmussen? I mean he was up here all last year, didn't get injured and can't make the roster this year? If you're going to bag on Svech then where's the "What about Rasmussen?" thread?

OP isn't bagging on Svech. He badly wants him on the Wings right now. Plus Rasmussen is only 20.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Just spitballing here, but maybe Yzerman is roster building differently? Similar to what he built in Tampa. What do those 4 guys have that Svech doesn't have? Skating.

 

[kliq]

Obviously none of us know exactly what Yzermans motivations are here, but considering the injury Svech sustained last year, I have to think to that having Svech playing in the AHL is a calculated decision.

He’s playing in a league where he should be a top guy which should significantly improve his confidence. Coming into the season you would think it would be at an all time low after all he went through.

That’s one of the reasons why this rule is in place to send him down, to help guys physically and mentally recover, why not take advantage of it? At least Yzerman brought him up for a week to throw the kid a bone ($ wise), I’m sure Svech was happy about that. I remember commodore talking on a podcast about how those stints while short can mean the world to a player on that type of contract.

*edit* my point, Yzerman isn’t giving up on him, he’s protecting him. If Yzerman gave up on him, he’s would throw him on the 4th line for 5min a game, and then trade him liken DLR.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I want Svech in the AHL if that is what is best for his development (which I can see the logic in). I do not want Svech up in Detroit out of concern for the public's viewing pleasure on a Wednesday night in early November.

This is a year defined by development, not wins and losses. If you want the organization to develop players, you need to let them develop players. It is a long season and Svech will be up full time sooner rather than later.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Looking at Svechnikov's tape job on that knee, he's probably healthy enough to play, but clearly not 100% in terms of his strength and conditioning.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The thing is all those stats in the first post here for Svechnikov aren't good. Sure, maybe they're better than a guy like Erne or Perlini who just got here and whatever... but they're still pretty abysmal possession numbers and shot generation numbers. Preseason goal and assist numbers are worthless. Most of the preseason is veterans coasting or guys who will be bagging groceries in Medicine Hat next week grinding to try to earn a roster spot. It's really more of a pass/fail kinda thing. Did you play well in the preseason? Cool. Did you not play well? Ooh, no bueno. It's not something that "Oh, man, player X ripped it up in September, he's gonna be a dang stud!"

 

[vladdy16]

Are there experts out there saying that a player gets better "rehab" in the AHL than the NHL?
Point me to that study.

He hasn't been in the AHL any more than he has been in the NHL, so what is your question even leading to?

Aside from that, point me to a single reason, under the sun, why you would have cause to doubt the common sense assertion in the first place.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Whether Svech comes up to replace him or not (it could be Ras, or just some plug at this point), Hirose definitely needs to go to GR and work on his game

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Are there experts out there saying that a player gets better "rehab" in the AHL than the NHL?
Point me to that study.

You’re better than this.

In the NHL, you are playing against the very best hockey players in the world night in, night out.

In the AHL, you are playing against guys who are still very good but are a clear level below.

When you are returning from an injury and you want to experience game speed, you play where the talent level and speed is going to be less. If you have any doubts about a player’s conditioning or strength at all after an injury... you don’t throw them into the deep end and say “do or die, kid”.

You build up your strength and conditioning in stages. No different than any regular person who gets hurt.

 

[Oddbob]

Was this seriously posted because we added a player? Svech missed all of last year and part of the year before, it doesn't hurt him in the least to spend this year in the AHL getting back into the groove, especially since we suck right now. He probably stands where he stood at season start, and trading a 4th liner for only a potentially better player changes nothing. There is a better than 60% chance that none of Erne, Perlini or Fabbri are even here in 2 years from now.

 

[Oddbob]

Whether Svech comes up to replace him or not (it could be Ras, or just some plug at this point), Hirose definitely needs to go to GR and work on his game

One can hope that Fabbri is what pushes Hirose to the AHL.

 

[Gniwder]

One thing about Svech, he gained an extra year of bypassing waivers because of his injury. Perlini and Fabbri have to go through waivers.

Hirose doesn't have to clear, and he could definitely use some time in the A.

 

[MBH]

He hasn't been in the AHL any more than he has been in the NHL, so what is your question even leading to?

Aside from that, point me to a single reason, under the sun, why you would have cause to doubt the common sense assertion in the first place.

What common sense assertion?

I've not yet seen a common sense assertion for why Svech is in Grand Rapids while Hirose, Perlini and Erne play in Detroit.

 

[MBH]

Was this seriously posted because we added a player? Svech missed all of last year and part of the year before, it doesn't hurt him in the least to spend this year in the AHL getting back into the groove, especially since we suck right now. He probably stands where he stood at season start, and trading a 4th liner for only a potentially better player changes nothing. There is a better than 60% chance that none of Erne, Perlini or Fabbri are even here in 2 years from now.

We have A TON of youth to install in the lineup. And it needs to be staged with some intelligence.

Svech was granted a bit of a break this year when Rasmussen was sent back to Grand Rapids to learn center.

That opened a winger job from last year.

Here's why it's important Svech be given the opportunity to establish himself as an NHLer this season.

We have room for 6 top 6 wingers.
Mantha, Bertuzzi and AA are 3.
Svech, Hirose, Rasmussen and Zadina are four more.
That's 7 for 6.

Rasmussen is coming to the NHL in 2020. Likely, so is Zadina, unless he truly is a potential bust.

Svech caught himself a little break when Ras was converted to C and sent to GR. My guess, though, is he won't be long for that position in the NHL.

Still, you could have given Svech the entire year, along with Hirose, to try and develop into NHL top 9ers.

If they make it, great! If not, you've got Ras and Zadina coming up next year.

But at least you legit gave Svech a year to try and earn his job before you face a waiver wire decision.

But then you add Erne.... a 4th liner in TB. And you make him a top 9er here and dump Svech to GR.

And then you add Perlini. And dump Svech to GR again.

And before that, you played Givani Smith more than Svech.

And now you've added Fabbri.

So now, Svech is probably where on the depth chart for a top 9 job?
Behind Hirose, Erne, Perlini and Fabbri.. So he's either 8th or 9th, depending on where he and Smith fall...for one of the six winger jobs.

So this year? Looking like he'll be lucky to get 15 games in.
Next year? Add Ras and Zadina to the mix.
And toss in the waiver wire concerns.

Next year, we might be trading Svech to avoid waiving him - like the Blues just did with Fabbri.

You are really closing that window on Svech.

 

[MBH]

You’re better than this.

In the NHL, you are playing against the very best hockey players in the world night in, night out.

In the AHL, you are playing against guys who are still very good but are a clear level below.

When you are returning from an injury and you want to experience game speed, you play where the talent level and speed is going to be less. If you have any doubts about a player’s conditioning or strength at all after an injury... you don’t throw them into the deep end and say “do or die, kid”.

You build up your strength and conditioning in stages. No different than any regular person who gets hurt.

Please. Show me all the other guys who had to rehab in the AHL because the NHL was too tough.

Frankly, if Svech needs any more attention to his recover, I'd rather he do it with TOP NOTCH NHL staff.
It's pretty foolish to suggest he's better off in the AHL.

Svech averaged 13 shots per 60 in the NHL. Had a better CF than Perlini, Hirose or Erne.
Put him in a "do or die" scenario and let him do it.

That's probably all the kid wants. A f***ing chance.

 

[Gniwder]

Please. Show me all the other guys who had to rehab in the AHL because the NHL was too tough.

Frankly, if Svech needs any more attention to his recover, I'd rather he do it with TOP NOTCH NHL staff.
It's pretty foolish to suggest he's better off in the AHL.

Svech averaged 13 shots per 60 in the NHL. Had a better CF than Perlini, Hirose or Erne.
Put him in a "do or die" scenario and let him do it.

That's probably all the kid wants. A ****ing chance.

He'll get a chance next season for sure, because he won't clear waivers. I'd rather have Svech on the team as well, but it's not worth getting worked up. This team is gonna suck with or without Svech.

 

[Henkka]

He'll get a chance next season for sure, because he won't clear waivers. I'd rather have Svech on the team as well, but it's not worth getting worked up. This team is gonna suck with or without Svech.

If Holland would be keeping Svechnikov down, people would riot in here.

Funny how these "dumb" and "moronic" moves are now smart, when Yzerman does exactly same.

 

[Oddbob]

Exactly, if he is good enough he will make it next year, and if he can't supplant Erne, Perlini, Fabbri, Ehn, or anyone else in his way, than it won't hurt us anyways, as we will have someone better in the lineup. Also, as others have said, he didn't need to clear waivers so that means it makes more sense for him to be down, than guys who right now are not a ton worse than he is, and have to clear. I liked what I have seen from Svech and wish he had gotten to play over Hirose, but we can't make Blashill stop playing Hirose so continually complaining about it is wasted time really.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

We have A TON of youth to install in the lineup. And it needs to be staged with some intelligence.

Svech was granted a bit of a break this year when Rasmussen was sent back to Grand Rapids to learn center.

That opened a winger job from last year.

Here's why it's important Svech be given the opportunity to establish himself as an NHLer this season.

We have room for 6 top 6 wingers.
Mantha, Bertuzzi and AA are 3.
Svech, Hirose, Rasmussen and Zadina are four more.
That's 7 for 6.

Rasmussen is coming to the NHL in 2020. Likely, so is Zadina, unless he truly is a potential bust.

Svech caught himself a little break when Ras was converted to C and sent to GR. My guess, though, is he won't be long for that position in the NHL.

Still, you could have given Svech the entire year, along with Hirose, to try and develop into NHL top 9ers.

If they make it, great! If not, you've got Ras and Zadina coming up next year.

But at least you legit gave Svech a year to try and earn his job before you face a waiver wire decision.

But then you add Erne.... a 4th liner in TB. And you make him a top 9er here and dump Svech to GR.

And then you add Perlini. And dump Svech to GR again.

And before that, you played Givani Smith more than Svech.

And now you've added Fabbri.

So now, Svech is probably where on the depth chart for a top 9 job?
Behind Hirose, Erne, Perlini and Fabbri.. So he's either 8th or 9th, depending on where he and Smith fall...for one of the six winger jobs.

So this year? Looking like he'll be lucky to get 15 games in.
Next year? Add Ras and Zadina to the mix.
And toss in the waiver wire concerns.

Next year, we might be trading Svech to avoid waiving him - like the Blues just did with Fabbri.

You are really closing that window on Svech.

Stop thinking that they're out for Svechnikov and doing everything to hurt him. He's not special. They're adding a bunch of other guys to the mix to where if one of them makes it? Great. If Svech picks up his game and he makes it, Great! Nobody in that pool of wingers is anything special at the current moment.

And Svech has had three years and change to prove himself. He lost a year due to being injured and that sucks... but you don't have to be in the NHL on the top line with the best possible linemates for you in the best possible situation to prove that you're an NHL caliber player. If a guy like Svechnikov wants to make the NHL now, he's got to be damn impressive in a Top 6/9 role or he's got to learn how to PK.

I mean, seriously, if you think Hirose, Erne, Perlini, and Fabbri suck (and you clearly do), what does that say about Svechnikov that he can't be demonstrably better than terrible options? And no, a CF% of 49 vs 41 or 45 isn't demonstrable. Shots created by 60 or whatever the **** that stat is is one metric. How is he without the puck? How is he with his positioning or with any grit or size, because as a 3rd liner or lower on the roster, he's got to kick in something like that and can't just be a trigger man.

Take a step back, take off the Evgeny Svechnikov-tinted glasses and realize that he's one of dozens. If he wasn't, if he had some special talent to make it, the Wings would give him a shot. He's not being "held down", he's not differentiating himself enough from other options. His skating was already something of a question mark when he was drafted and a knee injury didn't help that out. Yzerman, and if Holland were here and doing this, is doing the right thing by adding a bunch of options to let them duke it out for positions. Guys are not owed a day, let alone a year, to "see what you've got".

Think Sean Avery back in the mid 2000s. Do you think that the Wings had any plans at all to bring him with them when he came to came as an undrafted free agent? **** no. But he and another guy made it a point to turn the damn camp upside down and hit everything in sight. He made it so you couldn't ignore him. That's the kind of thing a young kid wanting to prove himself could/should do in the preseason. And it doesn't have to be hitting. It could be Svech just would refuse to lose on puck battles or he does this one thing super well and gets a bug in the coaches ear. It doesn't mean points or whatever, because points are fungible. You get a good bounce and you get a goal, even if you're in the complete wrong place on the ice. Pretty clearly nothing about Svechnikov's game stands out to the coaching staff or Yzerman or whoever. Think back to Larkin in GR for a minute and how he got called up to Detroit as a 19 year old when it was "most unorthodox" for Detroit to call up a teen. He made it very clear that he wasn't staying in GR by his play. It's incumbent on Svech to force the issue not on the Wings to "give him a chance to prove himself". You can look at the Wings bringing in Erne, Perlini, and Fabbri as them burying him... but those moves have nothing to do with Svechnikov at all. If he's better than them, he'll show it in his play and make it. If he doesn't, he's not that good.

 

[vladdy16]

What common sense assertion?

I've not yet seen a common sense assertion for why Svech is in Grand Rapids while Hirose, Perlini and Erne play in Detroit.

"Because of his knee injury"

It's nearly impossible to believe you have discussions in good faith.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If Holland would be keeping Svechnikov down, people would riot in here.

Funny how these "dumb" and "moronic" moves are now smart, when Yzerman does exactly same.

Henkka, you don't need to do this. I'd almost consider it trolling.

It's something that we as fans need to get away from. It's not the coaching staff keeping these players down. It's the players not differentiating themselves enough to prove they belong. Guys like Larkin got a ticket to the show right away because you knew he was a stud. Mantha was getting a ticket to the show right away until he broke his leg his rookie year, because you knew he was a stud. AA got the callup because he had something you couldn't ignore.

Whereas guys like Zadina aren't getting the callup for material amounts of time because they're clearly not ready. Cholo and Hronek had been sent down in the last two years because they started to really show their inexperience and in Cholo's case, he rammed into the conditioning wall pretty hard.

People are more patient with Yzerman because he doesn't have a decade and a half of decisions people disagree with stacked against him as well. A couple years from now, everyone will hate Yzerman for doing this too... even though it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. People fall in love with the prospects that they see and get angry when it feels they are being slighted.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

"Because of his knee injury"

It's nearly impossible to believe you have discussions in good faith.

Also, he's waiver-eligible, so he can without us losing any other player or risk losing him.

If you look at the Wings history of injuries and needing depth, Svech will play this year because we will have a rash of old forwards getting hurt and his number will get called.

 

[vladdy16]

Please. Show me all the other guys who had to rehab in the AHL because the NHL was too tough.

Frankly, if Svech needs any more attention to his recover, I'd rather he do it with TOP NOTCH NHL staff.
It's pretty foolish to suggest he's better off in the AHL.

I would have to say, until you amend this position, you have lost all credibility on the matter, which makes your focus on it nearly an off topic frivolity.

It's amazing that you would address the point about his knee injury, by bringing up Detroits training staff, and that didn't alert you that you are shifting your argument without tether, and possibly don't know what you are talking about any better than the rest of us?

 

[vladdy16]

Also, he's waiver-eligible, so he can without us losing any other player or risk losing him.

If you look at the Wings history of injuries and needing depth, Svech will play this year because we will have a rash of old forwards getting hurt and his number will get called.

I don't believe this is accurate. If he was 100% for the past 2 years, he wouldn't be having/have had any trouble playing his way into the lineup, imo. We don't have enough valuable forwards for his waiver status to be a priority.

He'll replace a replaceable player, when he's up to speed and fully on track, imo.