The Wennberg thread, part 2

[MoeBartoli]

Not saying Cam is playing great, but he's got 2 goals in 5 games, which is on pace for 32 goals.
Goals aren't everything, I know, but usually you are on the money with stats, etc...
Maybe I missed the

I think Cam will get his 28-33 goals this year as his ability to find shot opportunities combined with his skill will get him there. However, the 14-18-13 line just doesn't seem to click as a top unit should. Call it chemistry, style, whatever - it doesn't seem anyone on this line benefits their linemates. I'd try Cam on a different, but the counter is we're winning.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Did you hit that orange barrel mistaking it for Wennberg?

After I dislodged it from under the car, I saw what looked to me like a Mike Commodore signature on it.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Glad you're OK.

Thanks.

They're very well designed-or at least the one I hit was. It collapsed in part and allowed the car to drag it for roughly a mile (nowhere to stop on 71 S near Frank Rd. due to cement barriers) without doing any damage to my car body or under carriage and I had to be going at least 50 mph when I hit it.

I'm going to hit another one soon and start a study.

 

[CBJx614]

As of last night, "2C buyout option" Wennberg is only 2nd to Cam in total TOI on offense and is tied for the lead in points.

Still a long season, and he's almost guaranteed to disappear for a stretch or two, but he's definitely off to a great start and he obviously has the coaching staffs trust it they wouldn't put him out there as much as they do.

 

[Hello Johnny]

To preface – I'm happy with the way he's playing this year. He's engaged, using his body, creating turnovers, making better decisions, shooting a bit more, winning more faceoffs...

I guess for me the question is: How good does Wennberg have to play this year, how many goals/points does he have to put up, in order to not get bought out? I was in favor of not buying him out this past off-season and giving him one more chance, and this off-season is the last we have to buy him out for 1/3 of the contract, and if we don't, he has 3 years left.

So how good must he play this year for him to erase the past two?

 

[squarelaces]

He won't be bought out. There, that's one less thing you have to think about

 

[majormajor]

To preface – I'm happy with the way he's playing this year. He's engaged, using his body, creating turnovers, making better decisions, shooting a bit more, winning more faceoffs...

I guess for me the question is: How good does Wennberg have to play this year, how many goals/points does he have to put up, in order to not get bought out? I was in favor of not buying him out this past off-season and giving him one more chance, and this off-season is the last we have to buy him out for 1/3 of the contract, and if we don't, he has 3 years left.

So how good must he play this year for him to erase the past two?

If Wennberg has any consistency to his performance this year, he'll be evaluated on this year and not on the previous two years.

How many points would he need to not be bought out? Presuming he continues to take on defensive responsibility, keeps winning about 55% of his draws, and keeps a positive goal differential (so far it's 5 goals for and zero against), he wouldn't have to score very many points at all. A player like that would still have a regular role even at 30 pts a year.

That's not to suggest he'd be worth $4.9m per if he only scored 30, but you don't buy a guy out just because he's not worth his contract, you buy him out if you can afford to pay the buyout and still have enough money leftover to replace him (and presumably better options like trades have been ruled out). I remember the buyout cost being $817k for six years. So can you get a better center for $4.1m per, and by enough of a margin to justify having an extra $817k buyout cap hit running through 2025-26? That's the question.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

To preface – I'm happy with the way he's playing this year. He's engaged, using his body, creating turnovers, making better decisions, shooting a bit more, winning more faceoffs...

I guess for me the question is: How good does Wennberg have to play this year, how many goals/points does he have to put up, in order to not get bought out? I was in favor of not buying him out this past off-season and giving him one more chance, and this off-season is the last we have to buy him out for 1/3 of the contract, and if we don't, he has 3 years left.

So how good must he play this year for him to erase the past two?

If he’s got 40 points+ he’s staying. If he continues to play like he has this season, he’s staying.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

To preface – I'm happy with the way he's playing this year. He's engaged, using his body, creating turnovers, making better decisions, shooting a bit more, winning more faceoffs...

I guess for me the question is: How good does Wennberg have to play this year, how many goals/points does he have to put up, in order to not get bought out? I was in favor of not buying him out this past off-season and giving him one more chance, and this off-season is the last we have to buy him out for 1/3 of the contract, and if we don't, he has 3 years left.

So how good must he play this year for him to erase the past two?

6 games does not a season make. I'm with you on using the last 2 seasons as reference points in the decision making process on whether or not to buy him out.

Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The cap hit is under $450,000 the first three years and a tad less than $900,000 for the last 3 if he's bought out this June. $10.6 million in cash would be saved and roughly $4.5 million in cap space would become available during each of the next 3 years if he is bought out. He'd need to hit the 45-50 points mark with his current TOI to make it a hard decision. 40 points at 18 TOI is a no brainer buy out.

He's averaging 18+ TOI for a team that is having major scoring troubles. A good team wouldn't play him more than 13-14 minutes per game-even with his short term revival in play.

 

[CBJx614]

6 games does not a season make. I'm with you on using the last 2 seasons as reference points in the decision making process on whether or not to buy him out.

Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The cap hit is under $450,000 the first three years and a tad less than $900,000 for the last 3 if he's bought out this June. $10.6 million in cash would be saved and roughly $4.5 million in cap space would become available during each of the next 3 years if he is bought out. He'd need to hit the 45-50 points mark with his current TOI to make it a hard decision. 40 points at 18 TOI is a no brainer buy out.

He's averaging 18+ TOI for a team that is having major scoring troubles. A good team wouldn't play him more than 13-14 minutes per game-even with his short term revival in play.

So I guess dubois and Jenner wouldn't be playing much either then. It's extremely early in the season and anything can happen, but this teams .500 with two largely untested, young goalies and a metric shit ton of young kids. You're right he wouldn't get getting the opportunities he's currently getting on other teams. But it's not like he isn't playing well, he's out worked both Jenner and Dubois. Torts wouldn't give him the opportunity otherwise.

Wennberg is the 1C right now. He gets more faceoffs (34 more than Jenner before tonight's game) and is not even a full percentage point behind him (55.7-54.8) and 32 more than Dubois who is sitting 44%. He gets more TOI and is put into important situations more often than just about anyone not named Jones.

 

[majormajor]

6 games does not a season make. I'm with you on using the last 2 seasons as reference points in the decision making process on whether or not to buy him out.

Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The cap hit is under $450,000 the first three years and a tad less than $900,000 for the last 3 if he's bought out this June. $10.6 million in cash would be saved and roughly $4.5 million in cap space would become available during each of the next 3 years if he is bought out. He'd need to hit the 45-50 points mark with his current TOI to make it a hard decision. 40 points at 18 TOI is a no brainer buy out.

He's averaging 18+ TOI for a team that is having major scoring troubles. A good team wouldn't play him more than 13-14 minutes per game-even with his short term revival in play.

40 pts
plus player with very few goals against
55%+ on the draw
best PKer on the team

You don't buy out a player like that. Not even close.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

40 pts
plus player with very few goals against
55%+ on the draw
best PKer on the team

You don't buy out a player like that. Not even close.

40 points for 18 minutes TOI with tons of PP time is nothing to brag about.

Changed your tune about him, haven't you. As Peter Laviolette might say: "major major typical".

Carry on.

 

[Cowumbus]

I think Cam will get his 28-33 goals this year as his ability to find shot opportunities combined with his skill will get him there. However, the 14-18-13 line just doesn't seem to click as a top unit should. Call it chemistry, style, whatever - it doesn't seem anyone on this line benefits their linemates. I'd try Cam on a different, but the counter is we're winning.

I agree about the top line not clicking. Nyquist needs to move down in the lineup, and so does Cam. I would rather have Texier, Anderson, Bemstrom, Bjorkstrand play with PLD because all of them have higher potential than Cam/Nyquist. Cam should move down and be the offensive threat on a defensively responsible line like he was with Calvert/Duby. Cam/Nyquist/Foligno are not going to be the core of the team when the CBJ are a serious threat, it’s going to be 18/42/52/22/28/77. We aren’t a cup contender, maybe a wildcard team, but let’s at least let the core get some experience together. I’m ready to give them the keys, buckle up.

Texier-Dubois-Anderson
Nyquist-Wennberg-BJORK
Foligno-Jenner-Atkinson
Milano-Nash-Lilja

Call me crazy but I’d like to see Milano get a chance with PLD too.

 

[majormajor]

40 points for 18 minutes TOI with tons of PP time is nothing to brag about.

Changed your tune about him, haven't you. As Peter Laviolette might say: "major major typical".

Carry on.

If you haven't changed your tune on Wennberg, then you are clearly biased, because it might as well be a different player out there than what we saw last year.

Maintaining the same opinions on hockey players, even as results sharply change, is not a virtue.

 

[majormajor]

I agree about the top line not clicking. Nyquist needs to move down in the lineup, and so does Cam. I would rather have Texier, Anderson, Bemstrom, Bjorkstrand play with PLD because all of them have higher potential than Cam/Nyquist. Cam should move down and be the offensive threat on a defensively responsible line like he was with Calvert/Duby. Cam/Nyquist/Foligno are not going to be the core of the team when the CBJ are a serious threat, it’s going to be 18/42/52/22/28/77. We aren’t a cup contender, maybe a wildcard team, but let’s at least let the core get some experience together. I’m ready to give them the keys, buckle up.

Texier-Dubois-Anderson
Nyquist-Wennberg-Bemstrom
Foligno-Jenner-Atkinson
Milano-Nash-Lilja

Call me crazy but I’d like to see Milano get a chance with PLD too.

I liked this post before you switched lines, but I like the second version of the lines too (assuming you meant Bjorkstrand on the second unit).

Dubois and Anderson have been dominant together, they ought to be reunited.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Bjorkstrand-Dubois-Anderson
Nyquist-Wennberg-Atkinson
Texier-Jenner-Bemstrom
Milano-Nash-Foligno

 

[Cyclones Rock]

If you haven't changed your tune on Wennberg, then you are clearly biased, because it might as well be a different player out there than what we saw last year.

Maintaining the same opinions on hockey players, even as results sharply change, is not a virtue.

Don't ever call anyone out on sample size again, Mr. 8 games and 2.5 years of garbage is completely forgotten.

 

[majormajor]

Don't ever call anyone out on sample size again, Mr. 8 games and 2.5 years of garbage is completely forgotten.

I'm talking about who we are seeing right now. I'm not making any assumptions about what happens some months down the road.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I'm talking about who we are seeing right now. I'm not making any assumptions about what happens some months down the road.

OK. I got it. You're having it both ways.

 

[Viqsi]

OK. I got it. You're having it both ways.

If he continues to be what he is right now, then that's not a player you buy out.

If he reverts back to his old ways, then you buy him out.

I don't see the conflict there. He's really good at the moment. That's reason for hope. He's been horrible the last two years. That's reason for worry and skepticism. It is entirely possible for both possible outcomes to be rationally considered.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

If he continues to be what he is right now, then that's not a player you buy out.

If he reverts back to his old ways, then you buy him out.

I don't see the conflict there. He's really good at the moment. That's reason for hope. He's been horrible the last two years. That's reason for worry and skepticism. It is entirely possible for both possible outcomes to be rationally considered.

If he continues at his same scoring pace with the same amount of usage then the GM needs to be bought out. 40 points is not an acceptable scoring rate for a player being used as a #1C with all of the PP time.

 

[stevo61]

Dubois must well ahead of Wennberg in points after reading this thread.... Oh wait, they each have 4 points and Wennberg starts much more in the defensive zone and is a penalty killer. This board is pathetic sometimes but I suppose its no different than the bitching done about Bobrovsky when he went through his couple seasons of injuries and below his standard of play.
Lets just role a center depth of Dubi-Jenner-Foligno-Nash, atleast theyll try really hard and hit people they catch up too because apparently thats more important than the rest of the game.
Wennberg has been easily better than Dubois to this point and who gives a shit what happened in the past, the player we are seeing now is a valuable one and certainly not holding someone down in a lesser league waiting to take a top 6 center spot

 

[thebus88]

Wenny sure does have a loyal fanbase.... when he's playing well.

To me, these new comments early in the season are simply nothing more than a new easy to find batch of copy n pastes.

I still question just how good he really has been this year, and quite frankly -just like when I was wrong in the past, before I was then right, before now being wrong again- I just don't see the things some of you see with the dude.

Good skater, good passer, decent ''vision'', decent hands, that's it.

I hate the way he plays defensively/on the PK and his actual defensive skill (or awareness) is severely overrated by some. Same goes with his faceoff skill, that didn't magically get good over the summer at the f***ing World Championships.

Who is he taking faceoffs against, in relation to Jenner and Dubois??

Wennberg gets CARRIED on every line he's on, those 2 guys do the CARRYING.

I'm trying to stay outta this but COME ON...

Dubois >>>>>>> Wennberg

 

[squarelaces]

Great pass by #10 to spring Gus leading to the PS

 

[CBJx614]

Wenny sure does have a loyal fanbase.... when he's playing well.

To me, these new comments early in the season are simply nothing more than a new easy to find batch of copy n pastes.

I still question just how good he really has been this year, and quite frankly -just like when I was wrong in the past, before I was then right, before now being wrong again- I just don't see the things some of you see with the dude.

Good skater, good passer, decent ''vision'', decent hands, that's it.

I hate the way he plays defensively/on the PK and his actual defensive skill (or awareness) is severely overrated by some. Same goes with his faceoff skill, that didn't magically get good over the summer at the ****ing World Championships.

Who is he taking faceoffs against, in relation to Jenner and Dubois??

Wennberg gets CARRIED on every line he's on, those 2 guys do the CARRYING.

I'm trying to stay outta this but COME ON...

Dubois >>>>>>> Wennberg

Wow okay.

Who is a better passer on this team than Wennberg?

Wennberg is starting the periods and in clutch situations, so I would imagine, without looking at stats that he's facing teams top centers...and you're right, he didn't magically get betyer, he put in the work and it's obviously paying off.


Your bias is so unreal dude, at least CR can admit to when his play has changed.