The Top 31 Defensemen in the National Hockey League - # 29

[Baxterman]

There's nothing that says Klefbom isn't top 30, he's a great player by far. Lol Ekblad over Slavin, Trouba, GIORDANO? Are you even a Flames fan? Jones was sheltered but produced much better results than Ekblad, McDonagh is far better than Ekblad, please just stop. I'd easily take Parayko, Lindholm, and Suter. Hamilton is a mixed bag, but he played some of the most difficult minutes and heavy Dzone starts relative to his team mates and still produced awesome results even if he had an elite partner in Gio (And seeing how you hate Gio, that basically means Hamilton is elite due to their underlying numbers together).

Me watching Klefbom getting walked night after night would be why I wouldn't have him in my top 30, coupled with how badly he struggles to make a pass also hurts him.

Yes I am a Flames fan which why I have watched Giordano night after night for basically his whole career (missed a game or two) and he is not close to elite and getting pretty close to over the hill. Not nearly as good as his reputation and with Hamonic here I have him as the 4th best Flames defenseman.

 

[Sky04]

Shattenkirk puts up big points but would struggle defensively in my 7 year old daughters hockey league.

I personally don't get as wowed by points by defenseman as some do especially when that comes with zero defense. Ekblad isn't near as bad defensively as you are trying to paint him as either.

Yet Shattenkirk was the better defensive player last year.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Carlson, Ellis, Larsson, Shattenkirk it's a crapshoot.

Provorov is honestly deserving of consideration as well, I think. And Stralman and Johnson as well. I think Larsson and Shattenkirk are both somewhat overrated for opposite reasons (Larsson for his physical play and Shattenkirk for his offensive ability, which lead to people ignoring their faults).

 

[Machinehead]

Shattenkirk puts up big points but would struggle defensively in my 7 year old daughters hockey league.

I personally don't get as wowed by points by defenseman as some do especially when that comes with zero defense. Ekblad isn't near as bad defensively as you are trying to paint him as either.

I hope you don't teach your 7 year old daughter anything about hockey. It's a shame when young players get fed horrible information.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Me watching Klefbom getting walked night after night would be why I wouldn't have him in my top 30, coupled with how badly he struggles to make a pass also hurts him.

Yes I am a Flames fan which why I have watched Giordano night after night for basically his whole career (missed a game or two) and he is not close to elite and getting pretty close to over the hill. Not nearly as good as his reputation and with Hamonic here I have him as the 4th best Flames defenseman.

Klefbom makes a lot of boneheaded mistakes but the good he does makes up for the bad. If you're putting Hamonic above Giordano I really don't know what to say, even anti-Flames fans realize Giordano is still a fantastic Dman just not an elite 1D. If you're going to base your opinion on Gio's entire career, he definitely wasn't an elite D throughout his entire career, but since 2013-2014, he's been top 20 in every possible metric both offensively and defensively (And top 10 in defensive metrics), all while taking some of the most difficult competition and heavy relative Dzone starts in the league. Ekblad constantly looks out of place and even if he isn't making passing mistakes or getting walked over, the reason is because sometimes he does nothing and doing nothing ends up bad for his team.

 

[Baxterman]

Klefbom makes a lot of boneheaded mistakes but the good he does makes up for the bad. If you're putting Hamonic above Giordano I really don't know what to say, even anti-Flames fans realize Giordano is still a fantastic Dman just not an elite 1D. If you're going to base your opinion on Gio's entire career, he definitely wasn't an elite D throughout his entire career, but since 2013-2014, he's been top 20 in every possible metric both offensively and defensively (And top 10 in defensive metrics), all while taking some of the most difficult competition and heavy relative Dzone starts in the league. Ekblad constantly looks out of place and even if he isn't making passing mistakes or getting walked over, the reason is because sometimes he does nothing and doing nothing ends up bad for his team.

It was not based on his whole career but recent play, especially since the lockout shortened season in which he really struggled.

And I have as much use for "defensive metrics" as I do for "outscoring" or other ridiculous numbers that show explain nothing.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

It was not based on his whole career but recent play, especially since the lockout shortened season in which he really struggled.

And I have as much use for "defensive metrics" as I do for "outscoring" or other ridiculous numbers that show explain nothing.

You know what's the point of hockey? To score more than your opponents right? Regardless of how "bad" (Which is a myth anyways) Giordano looks doing things, his results are fantastic, both in suppression, generation, oh and goals for and goals against. It's like people how people defend Weber's poor advanced stats and say how he's keeping shots to the perimeter thus being good defensively because perimeter shots equals less goals. Well other than this season (And it's a mix of Price effect and Montreal's defense after Weber being that bad), whenever Weber is on the ice, his team is outscored both in the sense he scores less than his teammates and he allows more goals than his team mates. So not only is Weber allowing more chances he's also allowing more goals. Regardless of how great Hamonic looks making plays, his results were not so good (Albeit Capuano is a moron, and Hamonic had a weak partner).

The fact Giordano had such a bad lockout season and has been one of the best Dman since the lockout season speaks so much.

 

[Baxterman]

You know what's the point of hockey? To score more than your opponents right? Regardless of how "bad" (Which is a myth anyways) Giordano looks doing things, his results are fantastic, both in suppression, generation, oh and goals for and goals against. It's like people how people defend Weber's poor advanced stats and say how he's keeping shots to the perimeter thus being good defensively because perimeter shots equals less goals. Well other than this season (And it's a mix of Price effect and Montreal's defense after Weber being that bad), whenever Weber is on the ice, his team is outscored both in the sense he scores less than his teammates and he allows more goals than his team mates. So not only is Weber allowing more chances he's also allowing more goals. Regardless of how great Hamonic looks making plays, his results were not so good (Albeit Capuano is a moron, and Hamonic had a weak partner).

The fact Giordano had such a bad lockout season and has been one of the best Dman since the lockout season speaks so much.

I would never defend Weber by pointing to perimeter shots, he shouldn't need defending as if you watch him it is clear as day he is better than basically every other defenseman (save for Doughty, Burns and perhaps Pietrangelo now) out there.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I would never defend Weber by pointing to perimeter shots, he shouldn't need defending as if you watch him it is clear as day he is better than basically every other defenseman (save for Doughty, Burns and perhaps Pietrangelo now) out there.

Lol you probably think Karlsson and Josi are both joke defenseman and should play forward right? Paging Machinehead paging Machinehead.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I would never defend Weber by pointing to perimeter shots, he shouldn't need defending as if you watch him it is clear as day he is better than basically every other defenseman (save for Doughty, Burns and perhaps Pietrangelo now) out there.

This applies to Karlsson, but not Weber. Weber is constantly stuck in his zone, and yes most of the chances he allows is perimeter, but nevertheless his team is outscored when he's on the ice relative to when he's not.

 

[Machinehead]

"When you watch him it's clear" = "you're wrong and I don't need to provide a basis for that, because I can't, but I want to keep pretending I know everything"

 

[Baxterman]

Lol you probably think Karlsson and Josi are both joke defenseman and should play forward right? Paging Machinehead paging Machinehead.

No Josi is alright, I think he is clearly a top pairing guy.

Karlsson on the other hand......

 

[Baxterman]

"When you watch him it's clear" = "you're wrong and I don't need to provide a basis for that, because I can't, but I want to keep pretending I know everything"

No it means I don't need to make up phoney stats to try and create a false narrative.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol you probably think Karlsson and Josi are both joke defenseman and should play forward right? Paging Machinehead paging Machinehead.

I'd love to intervene but I don't even know where to begin with this guy.

If we played a game where we deliberately made things up that were as incorrect as possible, it still wouldn't rival what has been said in this thread.

He thinks Giordano is bad. Where do I even go with that?

 

[Sky04]

No it means I don't need to make up phoney stats to try and create a false narrative.

That's because there are no phony stats to back up your false narrative.

 

[Sky04]

I'd love to intervene but I don't even know where to begin with this guy.

If we played a game where we deliberately made things up that were as incorrect as possible, it still wouldn't rival what has been said in this thread.

He thinks Giordano is bad. Where do I even go with that?

It's worse that he thinks Ekblad is good.

 

[Machinehead]

No it means I don't need to make up phoney stats to try and create a false narrative.

You're straight up making **** up about several players in this thread, but the stats are creating a false narrative. Solid.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

No Josi is alright, I think he is clearly a top pairing guy.

Karlsson on the other hand......

Josi plays slightly harder competition and relied more on PK, but at the same time Karlsson produces significantly better results both offensively and DEFENSIVELY (That's right) than Josi does. Now certain years even when Karlsson suppresses chances better than his team mates (2013-2014 and 2015-2016) he allows more goals, so there is definitely some suspect defense from him, but otherwise he not only suppresses chances (Except 2016-2017) but also allows less goals than his peers. Josi does take slightly more Dzone starts, but both take mostly Ozone starts, so really Karlsson is just the better player by far. Josi and Weber constantly not only allows more chances against but also more goals against when they are on the ice (Just in case those that say "Goals against is the only defensive play that should be measured.")

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

According to Baxterman Giordano is a 4D, Bouwmeester is currently still an elite Dman, Ekblad is one of the best Dman in the league, Klefbom sucks, Weber is the 4th maybe 3rd best Dman in the league. Advanced stats are terrible, but his opinion is God.

Another thing I don't get how he considers Burns an elite defenseman when Burns takes the easiest competition out of high scoring Dman (At least 45 points) in the league, while still allowing more chances relative to peers and more goals. He does make up for it with his elite generation and offense, but Karlsson does it even better while taking much harder competition, and much better defensive results. (For everyone's information, Burns is still easily a top 10 Dman despite all of this, but there is zero reason to not take Karlsson over Burns).

 

[Machinehead]

According to Baxterman Giordano is a 4D, Bouwmeester is currently still an elite Dman, Ekblad is one of the best Dman in the league, Klefbom sucks, Weber is the 4th maybe 3rd best Dman in the league. Advanced stats are terrible, but his opinion is God.

Another thing I don't get how he considers Burns an elite defenseman when Burns takes the easiest competition out of high scoring Dman (At least 45 points) in the league, while still allowing more chances relative to peers and more goals. He does make up for it with his elite generation and offense, but Karlsson does it even better while taking much harder competition, and much better defensive results.

I like Burns but in certain ways, he actually is what people say Karlsson is.

But he's tall and Canadian, so...

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I like Burns but in certain ways, he actually is what people say Karlsson is.

But he's tall and Canadian, so...

Josi and Seabrook are what people stereotype Karlsson. Burns to a small degree, but Burns chance generation is insane despite easy comp and high Ozone starts. Weber doesn't fit the stereotype of Karlsson overall but he fits it much more than Karlsson actually does haha.

 

[Baxterman]

According to Baxterman Giordano is a 4D, Bouwmeester is currently still an elite Dman, Ekblad is one of the best Dman in the league, Klefbom sucks, Weber is the 4th maybe 3rd best Dman in the league. Advanced stats are terrible, but his opinion is God.

I am not sure where you are getting the bolded statements from.