The Top 31 Defensemen in the National Hockey League - #21

[triggrman]

Except that Hjalmarsson and Vlasic play almost their entire 5on5 minutes defensively, and is rarely given offensive roles. You can't expect a player to shut down players 25 minutes a game. PLayers that play the most play both offensive and defensive minutes. Ekholm and Giordano for example plays more defensive minutes, but is given both. Hjalmarsson and Vlasic are almost purely used for shutdown, similar to Larsson last season with the Devils. Ellis, Josi, and especially Karlsson and Burns are given more offensive minutes.

So they need to learn to get the puck out quicker and/or hold the blueline.

Those 2 things go a long way defensively too.

 

[Erndog]

People are picking Slavin over John Carlson?

WTF is going on in here?

 

[Barrie22]

If you're not playing regular top pairing minutes at even strength, it likely means you're being sheltered for one reason or another and likely, you're not a top 30 defender and yes, I feel the same way about Vlassic or Hjalmarsson. If they're so great at shutting down top lines, why aren't they playing more?

Because they have better defensemen infront of them in burns and keith.

Burns may not be better defensively per say then vlasic, but burns is 10 times better then vlasic at keeping the puck out of his own zone and in the other teams zone.

Vlasic might be better at keeping the other team at bay when the play does get into the defensive zone then burns. But burns just makes sure the puck is rarely ever in his zone when on the ice.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

that great...he did it for one season

do it on a consistent basis (at least play 2 full NHL seasons IMO) then we will talking about #1 stud-status

He played 63 games 1 season and 82 the next. 145 games over 2 seasons is pretty much 2 full seasons, no? And he was playing the same way toward the latter half of last season as well so this isn't some flash in the pan type performance.

Edit: I see you voted Klefbom. A guy who for the first time has played over 60 games in an NHL season and who has "done it" for 1 season. Is there a reason you aren't applying your "play 2 full seasons" criteria to the guy you voted for?

 

[triggrman]

Because they have better defensemen infront of them in burns and keith.

Burns may not be better defensively per say then vlasic, but burns is 10 times better then vlasic at keeping the puck out of his own zone and in the other teams zone.

Vlasic might be better at keeping the other team at bay when the play does get into the defensive zone then burns. But burns just makes sure the puck is rarely ever in his zone when on the ice.

That's a great argument but there's always 2 defensemen on the ice.

 

[Hivemind]

Carlson is criminally underrated these days.

Meh. He's not even the best defenseman on his own team. Matt Niskanen deserves the votes at this point, rather than Carlson.

 

[wintersej]

IMHO, yes. If you're playing 2nd pairing minutes, you're not a top line defender.



What makes Krug better than Ellis (who I didn't even vote for)? Krug is powerplay specialist, not a top defender.

I'd argue that we are past the pure top line defenders and have been. Everyone left is a 2 or a 3 on a good team depending on how the rest of the team is setup. Some guys left on the list play heavy minutes, but that doesn't mean they are better than the ones that don't, just that their team is setup differently. Trouba/Slavvin are really the glaring exceptions as I think they should have been voted in already.

Krug is 20th in 5 on 5 points, and 10th in PP points over the past 3 years (amongst d-men). Don't think that makes him a PP specialist. I love Ellis, btw. He isn't the possession driver Krug is, although he is a better 1 on 1 defender.

 

[Machinehead]

I thought Dan Girardi, Josh Gorges, and Andrew MacDonald killed the idea that there's a good, logical reason behind your usage with fire.

Not to mention Krug has a left-handed Hall of ****ing Famer on his team, so there goes the TOI argument.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

He played 63 games 1 season and 82 the next. 145 games over 2 seasons is pretty much 2 full seasons, no? And he was playing the same way toward the latter half of last season as well so this isn't some flash in the pan type performance.

he started in the AHL 2 years ago meaning he didn't make the Canes roster so no, he didn't play 2 full seasons

Edit: I see you voted Klefbom. A guy who for the first time has played over 60 games in an NHL season and who has "done it" for 1 season. Is there a reason you aren't applying your "play 2 full seasons" criteria to the guy you voted for?

that was his 2nd full season...his first "full" season was cut short by injuries

 

[FlamerForLife]

he started in the AHL 2 years ago meaning he didn't make the Canes roster so no, he didn't play 2 full seasons



that was his 2nd full season...his first "full" season was cut short by injuries

Klefbom playing 60 games = "full" season
Slavin playing 63 games =/= "full" season

 

[tarheelhockey]

Klefbom playing 60 games = "full" season
Slavin playing 63 games =/= "full" season

That truly was an amazing example of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Tripod]

when will Provorov be added since he actually has the burden of being a #1 Dman AND has AMac as his partner.

 

[Machinehead]

when will Provorov be added since he actually has the burden of being a #1 Dman AND has AMac as his partner.

When he gets enough nominations to be added

 

[CraigsList]

When he gets enough nominations to be added

Provorov should be added.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Provorov should be added.

not before gardiner

i remember gardiner and ellis being considered about even here very recently, what happened to that?

 

[Hivemind]

Provorov should be added.

After Orlov

 

[VoluntaryDom]

After Orlov

you have a solid case there i'd say, though i think provy is better right now. provy is a #2 while orlov is more of a high end #3

 

[Machinehead]

Provorov should be added.

 

[Hivemind]

you have a solid case there i'd say, though i think provy is better right now. provy is a #2 while orlov is more of a high end #3

Orlov played on the top pairing of the President's Trophy winners last year, and handled the minutes and match-ups exceptionally well. The only big dent in his game right now is his lack of special teams responsibilities. Being a left shot makes it difficult for him to get regular minutes on the Capitals powerplay, which drags down his offensive numbers (and thus his league-wide notoriety). He did see increased PK action during the playoffs last year, which will almost certainly carry forth into this season with Alzner gone. With an increased special teams workload, his evaluation around this forum will likely spike sharply upwards this season.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Orlov played on the top pairing of the President's Trophy winners last year, and handled the minutes and match-ups exceptionally well. The only big dent in his game right now is his lack of special teams responsibilities. Being a left shot makes it difficult for him to get regular minutes on the Capitals powerplay, which drags down his offensive numbers (and thus his league-wide notoriety). He did see increased PK action during the playoffs last year, which will almost certainly carry forth into this season with Alzner gone. With an increased special teams workload, his evaluation around this forum will likely spike sharply upwards this season.

this would not surprise me, but he may not shine in those roles.

its possible but not a certainty. still a very nice player to have around even if he doesn't take that next step

 

[triggrman]

I'd argue that we are past the pure top line defenders and have been. Everyone left is a 2 or a 3 on a good team depending on how the rest of the team is setup. Some guys left on the list play heavy minutes, but that doesn't mean they are better than the ones that don't, just that their team is setup differently. Trouba/Slavvin are really the glaring exceptions as I think they should have been voted in already.

Krug is 20th in 5 on 5 points, and 10th in PP points over the past 3 years (amongst d-men). Don't think that makes him a PP specialist. I love Ellis, btw. He isn't the possession driver Krug is, although he is a better 1 on 1 defender.

Ellis isn't protected like Krug, he plays much bigger minutes against better players, so harder to put up better possession numbers. But this isn't a Ellis versus Krug, neither are top 20 defenders.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Klefbom playing 60 games = "full" season
Slavin playing 63 games =/= "full" season

Not only that, he starts it with Slavin has only done it for one season (even though it's actually 2) and then votes for a guy that has only does it for 1 season. Some truly dizzying intellect being displayed.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

that was his 2nd full season...his first "full" season was cut short by injuries

I think you have a strange definition of "full season". Quite a display of reasoning. Less games played = full season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Klefbom playing 60 games = "full" season
Slavin playing 63 games =/= "full" season

Lol gotta love the hypocrisy.

Slavin is significantly better than Klefbom.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

People are picking Slavin over John Carlson?

WTF is going on in here?

Slavin is better than Carlson. That's what is going on here.