OT: The Thread About Nothing CCVI: Sitting in the blind

[New Jersey]

Most pure drugs are not very dangerous, the problem arises when dealers cut/lace their drugs with other stuff. Then you've get interactions between a bunch of different things, and that's when it gets dangerous.

well, that's a tad misleading. yes and no.

pure cocaine: least dangerous, but still dangerous.
cocaine cut with fentanyl: very dangerous.
pure fentanyl: clear suicide attempt.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Alcohol is worse than most drugs. I remember reading a study a while back that basically said that if you were to do X amount of pure cocaine (it was a moderate amount, not something that would kill you) it would have less long term adverse effects on you than if you went out and had Y drinks.

First of all, on its' face that's absurd. Until of course you realize you dont specify X and Y. Yes, if you have 20 (y) beers it's worse than a pinhead (x) of cocaine.

even the national institute on drug abuse won’t make that claim:

Is marijuana a gateway drug?

Literally the very first sentence from what you posted.

Some research suggests that marijuana use is likely to precede use of other licit and illicit substances and the development of addiction to other substances.

The only people that seem to ever push-back on this concept, are the people who are very pro weed.

 

[New Jersey]

Literally the very first sentence from what you posted.

all that sentence seems to do within the actual context of that article is introduce the counter-argument.

These findings are consistent with the idea of marijuana as a "gateway drug." However, the majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, "harder" substances. Also, cross-sensitization is not unique to marijuana. Alcohol and nicotine also prime the brain for a heightened response to other drugs52 and are, like marijuana, also typically used before a person progresses to other, more harmful substances.

It is important to note that other factors besides biological mechanisms, such as a person’s social environment, are also critical in a person’s risk for drug use. An alternative to the gateway-drug hypothesis is that people who are more vulnerable to drug-taking are simply more likely to start with readily available substances such as marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol, and their subsequent social interactions with others who use drugs increases their chances of trying other drugs. Further research is needed to explore this question.

 

[MartyOwns]

First of all, on its' face that's absurd. Until of course you realize you dont specify X and Y. Yes, if you have 20 (y) beers it's worse than a pinhead (x) of cocaine.



Literally the very first sentence from what you posted.



The only people that seem to ever push-back on this concept, are the people who are very pro weed.

...keep reading

 

[BenedictGomez]

all that sentence seems to do within the actual context of that article is introduce the counter-argument.

The counter-argument in no way precludes the main argument, nor is it necessary for a 50%+1 "majority" to experience something for it to be true. If it's true for 28%, 32%, 43%, it's true enough.

Again, this all seems like common sense, not to mention the clinical data, only heavily-refuted by the most pro-weed of people, as if their religion were being attacked.

 

[None Shall Pass]

The only people that seem to ever push-back on this concept, are the people who are very pro weed.

Exactly, which makes sense. Who should you trust when it comes to figuring out if weed is a gateway drug?

The people who smoked weed and realized that it isn't a gateway drug?

Or

The people who haven't and are inventing things?

I have a feeling that once weed is completely legal, the "gateway drug" idea will die out eventually and it will be looked at like alcohol, which is also a drug by any sane definition. I think that technically, nicotine and caffeine are "drugs" too, and I had all of those (and alcohol) before I ever tried weed. Which one was the "gateway"?

 

[New Jersey]

The counter-argument in no way precludes the main argument, nor is it necessary for a 50%+1 "majority" to experience something for it to be true. If it's true for 28%, 32%, 43%, it's true enough.

Again, this all seems like common sense, not to mention the clinical data, only heavily-refuted by the most pro-weed people.

no one's refuting that some marijuana users have moved on to harder and more dangerous drugs.

what's being refuted is that it's pervasive enough of an issue with marijuana that it should preclude marijuana from ever being legalized and regulated.

 

[New Jersey]

I have a feeling that once weed is completely legal, the "gateway drug" idea will die out eventually and it will be looked at like alcohol, which is also a drug by any sane definition. I think that technically, nicotine and caffeine are "drugs" too, and I had all of those (and alcohol) before I ever tried weed. Which one was the "gateway"?

not just "technically," they are drugs, period.

drug
/drəɡ/
noun
noun: drug; plural noun: drugs
1.
a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.
"a new drug aimed at sufferers from Parkinson's disease"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[None Shall Pass]

not just "technically," they are drugs, period.

I know, but for a lot of people, there's drugs and there's "drugs".

The fact that weed is a Schedule I drug and cocaine, meth, and ketamine aren't should really tell you all that you need to know about how completely illogical our country's laws and beliefs on weed are.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I have a feeling that once weed is completely legal, the "gateway drug" idea will die out eventually and it will be looked at like alcohol, which is also a drug by any sane definition.

I agree with you, but for a completely different reason.

After weed is legal for a certain period (10 years, 20 years) it will completely lose it's hip, cool, "bad", counter-culture, rebellious quality to young people, who are the ones in the age cohort which is ripe for drug experimentation.

 

[New Jersey]

I agree with you, but for a completely different reason.

After weed is legal for a certain period (10 years, 20 years) it will completely lose it's hip, cool, "bad", counter-culture, rebellious quality to young people, who are the ones in the age cohort which is ripe for drug experimentation.

you mean like alcohol on university campuses? or marijuana everywhere it was legalized and with lines around the block to purchase legal, "boring" weed?

marijuana will most certainly be restricted to 21+ as well. i would venture to say many adults enjoy smoking weed more than they like doing stuff that's illegal, just like they enjoy booze.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I agree with you, but for a completely different reason.

After weed is legal for a certain period (10 years, 20 years) it will completely lose it's hip, cool, "bad", counter-culture, rebellious quality to young people, who are the ones in the age cohort which is ripe for drug experimentation.

That's fair. Definitely plays a part in it. I mean, we all felt like hot shit when we drank before we were of legal age, right? Now, it's so ho-hum. I was annoyed by being ID'd by the time I was 21 and 1 month old, haha.

 

[Darkauron]

Just give everyone all of the drugs in the world. And those that are not dumb enough to use them all will solve the worlds population problem.

 

[devilsblood]

What are cigs a gateway drug to, smoking joints?

What about booze? That one I'm not getting at all, there is no other common drinkable drug I'm aware of.

I don't think gateway drugs are a preclude only to other similarly used/ingested drugs.

I.e. I don't think drugs you smoke would lead only to other drugs you smoke.

 

[New Jersey]

That's fair. Definitely plays a part in it. I mean, we all felt like hot **** when we drank before we were of legal age, right? Now, it's so ho-hum. I was annoyed by being ID'd by the time I was 21 and 1 month old, haha.

it'll continue being one of those things that self-righteous, overly-pious folks will criticize other people over for the foreseeable future though.

"oh, you smoke marijuana? i'm not into that, i like to keep my mind sharp."

 

[New Jersey]

Just give everyone all of the drugs in the world.

this actually worked in portugal.

Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

 

[devilsblood]

My first drug ever was smoking cigs and that was not for the drug factor as much as the cool factor. Don't think I ever really felt the drug effect of cig's. And when you look at people smoking, you don't notice the drug factor.

Next drug I did was whiskey, maybe I did it for the cool factor, but I knew before I took that first sip, because I had seen other people drinking, that the drug factor was not far off.

Weed came next, cool and drug factors both there.

Some other drugs cam after that.

So imo, if Weed is a gateway drug, and I think it is, at least in how I perceive gateway drugs, then cigs and alcohol are as well.

 

[BenedictGomez]

marijuana will most certainly be restricted to 21+ as well.

This is another thing that annoys me.

Beer is 21
Handgun is 21
Marijuana (as you note) is 21

Voting is 18
Getting killed in a politician's war is 18

Either make the 1st three 18, or the last two 21.

 

[None Shall Pass]

This is another thing that annoys me.

Beer is 21
Handgun is 21
Marijuana (as you note) is 21

Voting is 18
Getting killed in a politician's war is 18

Either make the 1st three 18, or the last two 21.

Preeeeeeeeeeach.

If you're legally an adult at 18, I'm of the opinion that you should have all the rights (and responsibilities) that come with it.

 

[njdevils1982]

1:11 1/11/19

 

[JimEIV]

Me personally... I wouldn't trust my 18 year old self with anything of importance.

You should have no rights while you are a dependent. IMO. If someone is feeding, clothing, providing shelters and taking care of all of your essential needs you are one step above a pet not an adult.

 

[None Shall Pass]

In non-drug related news, your boy just got accepted to grad school.

 

[Darkauron]

In non-drug related news, your boy just got accepted to grad school.

Nice. What school are you going to for it?

 

[New Jersey]

In non-drug related news, your boy just got accepted to grad school.

 

[New Jersey]

You should have no rights while you are a dependent. IMO. If someone is feeding, clothing, providing shelters and taking care of all of your essential needs you are one step above a pet not an adult.

well, i liked this, knowing full well i still live at home rent-free.

student loans is expensive guy. helps to have parents who won't take rent money on the condition you double-pay your loans every month.