The swedish team is surrounded by chaos and uncertainty

[Jester]

So you have no thoughts at all about expanding the sport outside of NA then? The NHL grows in Europe when people can see their stars in tournaments, it will bring in money from TV-rights. If the sport wants to grow larger in Asia you need to have the best players on the ice to really put on a show.

How can a sport like hockey grow in countries that usually don't see the sport if it wasn't for the olympics?

I know you don't care about the rest of the world probably, since "no one" can watch it anyways (Europe = no one I guess?) but believe it or not, what is good for hockey is more countries involved, higher interest around the world will give extra incomes, more players of higher quality and you might start a fanbase in another country, if you have any knowledge of soccer, you might know of teams like FC Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. They have a huge fanbase in Asia, alot of income comes to the clubs from selling sportjerseys to them.
Why wouldn't NHL-teams want to tap into those markets too?

they would, but those markets aren't open to hockey. if you don't understand the MAJOR difference between hockey and soccer/football, then this is a lost cause... but here it goes. people can EASILY play soccer. it is an accessible sport. you need a ball and a make-shift goal and you're good. you don't need skates, sticks, pucks, ICE, nets, etc. to play the sport of soccer. a kid can watch a World Cup (note: NOT the olympics...) and go out in his backyard and play soccer pretty much ANYWHERE in the world. that isn't the case with hockey...

you'll note that soccer is extremely popular in the poorer regions of the world for these very reasons... its accessibility to the people in those regions due to their ability to play the sport.

okay, i have NOTHING against european fans of the NHL and hockey in general. however, the simple truth is that you aren't what is really driving the financial model of the NHL. it's that simple. it isn't a judgment of you as hockey fans, or your importance to the sport of hockey (obviously european hockey is an integral part of the sport of the hockey and the NHL). however, financially it is an almost non-existent element to what the NHL is trying to accomplish as a business.

if the NHL is going to be truly successful it is going to be because the sport is going to catch hold in the US outside of the mid-atlantic region and canadian border... not because people start watching a bit more hockey in europe... outside of the fact that the NHL makes almost nothing off of TV and is extremely reliant on ticket-sales, something that European fans offer no return on.

the Olympics do NOTHING to help the growth of the NHL (not hockey) in NA, which is really the crux of the issue...

we can also discuss the concept of sports-saturated markets and the problems that European Football offers for ANY sport making a dent in the euro sports marketplace...

 

[Panopticon]

Forsberg wants to go because he'd love to play for Sweden at the Olympics. Money has nothing to do with it. And I'm sure even if they made that kind of contract he'd still want to go.

Well, then it would be better for everyone. I just wouldn't want to let people bet with my money. Give someone 5 million dollars of your money to put on poker or blackjack and see if that's smart.

 

[MrAlfie]

they would, but those markets aren't open to hockey. if you don't understand the MAJOR difference between hockey and soccer/football, then this is a lost cause... but here it goes. people can EASILY play soccer. it is an accessible sport. you need a ball and a make-shift goal and you're good. you don't need skates, sticks, pucks, ICE, nets, etc. to play the sport of soccer. a kid can watch a World Cup (note: NOT the olympics...) and go out in his backyard and play soccer pretty much ANYWHERE in the world. that isn't the case with hockey...

you'll note that soccer is extremely popular in the poorer regions of the world for these very reasons... its accessibility to the people in those regions due to their ability to play the sport.

okay, i have NOTHING against european fans of the NHL and hockey in general. however, the simple truth is that you aren't what is really driving the financial model of the NHL. it's that simple. it isn't a judgment of you as hockey fans, or your importance to the sport of hockey (obviously european hockey is an integral part of the sport of the hockey and the NHL). however, financially it is an almost non-existent element to what the NHL is trying to accomplish as a business.

if the NHL is going to be truly successful it is going to be because the sport is going to catch hold in the US outside of the mid-atlantic region and canadian border... not because people start watching a bit more hockey in europe... outside of the fact that the NHL makes almost nothing off of TV and is extremely reliant on ticket-sales, something that European fans offer no return on.

the Olympics do NOTHING to help the growth of the NHL (not hockey) in NA, which is really the crux of the issue...

we can also discuss the concept of sports-saturated markets and the problems that European Football offers for ANY sport making a dent in the euro sports marketplace...

how can you say that the olympics do nothing on the nhl-growth?
you are aware of the fact that americans watch the olympics too, right?
so if they watch an olympic hockey match and like what they see then it goes like:
"oh hey, these guys play in the wachovia center? wow, Im gonna have to buy me a ticket so i can see these talented players live!" slighty exaggarated but, you get my point, right?

so now if you send "amateurs" to the olympic hockey tournament , and they suck at what they do over there, the common sportsfan wont go to a hockey game because its not good hockey that is being exposed in the olympics.

 

[NFITO]

As a canuck fan I'm glad that Naslund has decided to skip out of the tournament... he has been playing hurt now for a while and the 2 weeks off will be much needed for him.

I still think that the NHL and playoffs are more important than the Olympics, and it should be for the players as well, since they are getting paid for their time in the NHL. If their play for their NHL team, who sign the cheques, suffer because of their participation in the Olympics, than the NHL team has every right to ask them to step aside.

Because of the CBA agreement though, teams can't force players not to go - even though IMO because they are the ones paying for their services, they should have to right to - the player is still under contract to the team, and an injury will affect that player's ability to hold up their end of the contract.

In Philly's situation, I understand why they don't want Forsberg going to the Olympics... the team has invested a lot in him, and in the team this year, and everyone realizes just how important he is to the team. If he goes to the Olympics, and reaggravates an injury, or gets another injury, the team that suffers the most are the Flyers, and after paying him what they have, they should have every right to be concerned about their investment.

IMO the Olympic timing is just bad.... if the NHL was so interested in participation, they should have managed their schedule better - maybe reduce the number of preseason games, extend the season, and not cramp everything up into the same schedule timing with the Olympics there... after missing a full season, and having a schedule like this, it will just create more injuries throughout the league (as we are already seeing this year, with the amount of groin injuries).

But in the end, IMO, the NHL teams are the ones that are paying these players... the contracts they sign are with the teams, and that should always be a player's priority more than anything else - Olympics or WC or whatever other tournaments out there. In cases where a team's key player is recovering from injury - especially in such cases where a player has had a history of injuries, like Forsberg, the team has every right to be concerned, and they wouldn't be doing what's best for the team if they didn't request the player to step away from the Olympics so as not to jeopardize what is more important - their performance for the organization that is paying them.

A Forsberg injury in the Olympics, and him missing March, or even the first round or two in the playoffs, hurts the flyers immensly... considering that he's under contract to the team, and his overall importance, combined with his injury history already, I'd be surprised if the Flyers would want Forsberg to go, instead of taking the time to rest, heal, and be ready for the stretch drive - which for the flyers fans, and even more so for the organization that has a lot of $$ invested in a successful playoff run, is a much bigger priority. It should be for Forsberg as well, considering that he's under contract to the team.

 

[Rick Middleton]

Knock off the personal shots people.

 

[Ola]

Myth, Myth, Myth. I live in the States and the NHL has been in the Olympics for 3 Olympics now. The ratings for hockey have plummeted and its growth is stagnant. Remember the lockout. In Europe most of the international tourny's are popular. They followed the World Cup in Europe. The US will only grow hockey if the NHL continues to have an exciting product. But it is an uphill battle because hockey nationally gets no top billing coverage like the NFL, NBA MLB and major college sports. Unleess there is a scandal. If the US wins gold (highly unlikely)then maybe they will get a bump.

Yeah, untill USA plays well in the Olympics when the next generation arrives or something. You know for example a big star playing really well and wins the gold for US or something. Hockey needs to try everything possible to make the sport more popular. Playing in the Olympics don't hurt hockey, thats a fact.

Another thing thats a fact is that NHL have a income comming from Europe which is only getting bigger and bigger. The European TV rights where bought for something like 10m USD for this year, last time they made a deal they pretty much gave away the rights. 20 years from now who knows where that number will be.

I think its a common fact that when something is popular in US it gets extremely popular. Just because the numbers(tv-ratings or whatever its called) from last Olympics stayed the same it doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. I also think its safe to say that with the new rules people not familier to the game will appreciated the new speed allot. Maybe nothing major will happend this year too, if you look over a 20 year period beeing in the Olympics for the NHL makes all the sense in the world.

 

[Jester]

how can you say that the olympics do nothing on the nhl-growth?
you are aware of the fact that americans watch the olympics too, right?
so if they watch an olympic hockey match and like what they see then it goes like:
"oh hey, these guys play in the wachovia center? wow, Im gonna have to buy me a ticket so i can see these talented players live!" slighty exaggarated but, you get my point, right?

so now if you send "amateurs" to the olympic hockey tournament , and they suck at what they do over there, the common sportsfan wont go to a hockey game because its not good hockey that is being exposed in the olympics.

Because EVERY measurable number that can tell you anything about the popularity of the sport of hockey in N.A. shows that the Olympics have NO effect on the sports culture here. NONE... i think the theory is great and wish that it was true, really i do. I wish people in areas outside of the established hockey regions in the US would watch the Olympics and think that hockey was awesome and they would go out and play, watch, and everything else with hockey.

The problem is that they don't. They watch team USA play, then go back to ignoring the NHL. the ONLY way that the NHL gets growth in those regions is through continued and sustained success of the NHL clubs in different areas that create fans and popularity.

Olympics can't help there... again, i wish the Olympics helped because it was be awesome if the NHL was on better financial footing... but they don't.

 

[MrAlfie]

Because EVERY measurable number that can tell you anything about the popularity of the sport of hockey in N.A. shows that the Olympics have NO effect on the sports culture here. NONE... i think the theory is great and wish that it was true, really i do. I wish people in areas outside of the established hockey regions in the US would watch the Olympics and think that hockey was awesome and they would go out and play, watch, and everything else with hockey.

The problem is that they don't. They watch team USA play, then go back to ignoring the NHL. the ONLY way that the NHL gets growth in those regions is through continued and sustained success of the NHL clubs in different areas that create fans and popularity.

Olympics can't help there... again, i wish the Olympics helped because it was be awesome if the NHL was on better financial footing... but they don't.

im actually very surprised that it doesnt work that way as it seems to be a very logical path.
do you have some links you can provide to see the which effect the olympics had to the nhl? itd be a very interesting read

 

[Jester]

Yeah, untill USA plays well in the Olympics when the next generation arrives or something. You know for example a big star playing really well and wins the gold for US or something. Hockey needs to try everything possible to make the sport more popular. Playing in the Olympics don't hurt hockey, thats a fact.

Another thing thats a fact is that NHL have a income comming from Europe which is only getting bigger and bigger. The European TV rights where bought for something like 10m USD for this year, last time they made a deal they pretty much gave away the rights. 20 years from now who knows where that number will be.

USA played great in the last World Cup... last i checked no one cares about the MLS at all...

playing in the Olympics doesn't hurt... but it doesn't help either.

10M is NOTHING. that IS basically giving away the rights... $333,333.00 ain't doing squat for the clubs over here in the big scheme of things. 20 years from now? people were concerned this year about the prospects of hockey surviving in more than a few of the markets through the next 5 years... let alone 20 years. the NHL needs to be viable HERE before we can even begin worrying about growing the sport in any significant way.

BTW, if hockey catches on in popularity throughout Europe, that will increase the revenue stream of the leagues that are there... if that occurs then those leagues will be able to offer more competitive salaries and it is possible that in 20 years the NHL will be forced to compete for players from Europe... something that they don't need to do right now... the status quo as of now is VERY good for the NHL.

 

[Jester]

im actually very surprised that it doesnt work that way as it seems to be a very logical path.
do you have some links you can provide to see the which effect the olympics had to the nhl? itd be a very interesting read

i don't have the links... but did watch a few shows discussing the rating numbers following the Salt Lake games. all you have to know is that the NHL ratings dropped for sure since they've agreed to go to the Olympics... which is part of the reason that whole lockout happened. the sport didn't grow/sustain itself to make the previous economics viable.

personally i think the NHL should drop the Olympics and make the World Cup of Hockey as huge as possible... similar to what FIFA does and guards very closely (full national teams do not participate in the Olympics). i think this is good for a number of reasons -- not the least of which it would remove ANY concern about players dealing with injuries going into any tournament.

 

[Ola]

You can continue to insult me all you want, I'm not going to bite.

It's not like Forsberg took a "few" days off here to rest his groin. I hope he plays and gets hurt even worse to be honest. Then I'd like to see the Flyers be able to suspend his pay but I know that's not possible.

That pretty much sums up your view, doesn't it? If you don't like him make a thread about it somewhere else or start a webpage or something instead of comming in here making comments like you have.

I think everyone knows that if Forsberg, 21 days after pulling his groin, and if its healthy this weekend, Peter doesn't stand a bigger chance to get injured in the Olympics then if he had not been injured in the first place and played all of Flyers game up untill the Olympics. This discussion wouldn't even be there in the first place if Flyers management wouldn't have gone public putting Peter in the position he is right now.

 

[Ola]

i don't have the links... but did watch a few shows discussing the rating numbers following the Salt Lake games. all you have to know is that the NHL ratings dropped for sure since they've agreed to go to the Olympics... which is part of the reason that whole lockout happened. the sport didn't grow/sustain itself to make the previous economics viable.

I can confirm that, and I don't agree with you (on other issues in this thread) so I think I am creditable...

You also have to agree that your opinions are very short sighted.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, untill USA plays well in the Olympics when the next generation arrives or something. You know for example a big star playing really well and wins the gold for US or something. Hockey needs to try everything possible to make the sport more popular. Playing in the Olympics don't hurt hockey, thats a fact.

Another thing thats a fact is that NHL have a income comming from Europe which is only getting bigger and bigger. The European TV rights where bought for something like 10m USD for this year, last time they made a deal they pretty much gave away the rights. 20 years from now who knows where that number will be.

I think its a common fact that when something is popular in US it gets extremely popular. Just because the numbers(tv-ratings or whatever its called) from last Olympics stayed the same it doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. I also think its safe to say that with the new rules people not familier to the game will appreciated the new speed allot. Maybe nothing major will happend this year too, if you look over a 20 year period beeing in the Olympics for the NHL makes all the sense in the world.

Ten million is nothing to sneeze at but that works out to about $333,000 per team. That doesn't even reach the league minimum salary. Just to give you perspective on NHL TV money here, the sabres my home town team gets 8m USD just for their local TV coverage and they are near the bottom in TV revenue.

 

[Jester]

I can confirm that, and I don't agree with you (on other issues in this thread) so I think I am creditable...

You also have to agree that your opinions are very short sighted.

I'm sorry... this league just shutdown for a full-year because it was on the verge of completely collapse. As of right now, there is zero ability for the NHL to make decisions on a 20 year model. They need to pay very close attention to the five-year model to make sure all their franchises can survive and hopefully flourish.

The NHL, unfortunately, doesn't have the luxury of resting on its current state and making plans for 20-year growth its first priority.

 

[Jester]

That pretty much sums up your view, doesn't it? If you don't like him make a thread about it somewhere else or start a webpage or something instead of comming in here making comments like you have.

I think everyone knows that if Forsberg, 21 days after pulling his groin, and if its healthy this weekend, Peter doesn't stand a bigger chance to get injured in the Olympics then if he had not been injured in the first place and played all of Flyers game up untill the Olympics. This discussion wouldn't even be there in the first place if Flyers management wouldn't have gone public putting Peter in the position he is right now.

The Flyers board would still be howling since we're in a tailspin and he hasn't played in our last 8 games (nearly 10% of the season). I don't care what Flyers management has to say on the issue... i'm looking at the situation and saying he shouldn't go.

you're COMPLETELY ignoring the history of Forsberg's groin if you think your first statement is true. that thing needs to rest.

 

[NFITO]

I think everyone knows that if Forsberg, 21 days after pulling his groin, and if its healthy this weekend, Peter doesn't stand a bigger chance to get injured in the Olympics then if he had not been injured in the first place and played all of Flyers game up untill the Olympics. This discussion wouldn't even be there in the first place if Flyers management wouldn't have gone public putting Peter in the position he is right now.

from the Flyers POV, you can break it down as this:

Does Forsberg have a history of injuries?
Is there a chance that he can get injured playing in the Olypmics?

Do the Flyers have to pay Forsberg even if he's injured in the Olympics?
Is Forsberg a key enough player for the Flyers that if he's missing during the stretch run, or playoffs, it hurts the flyers financially?

considering the answer to all of these questions is YES, the Flyers have every right to try and protect their investment and ask their key player, who a lot of their success, and especially financial success - isn't that what it's all about in the end? - depends on.

bottom line - again - to the flyers his health, and ability to be on the team when the team needs him, is more important than what he can do for Sweden. Considering they are the team paying him the $$ - and it is their investment that impacts the $$ the organization can earn this season, they have every right to ask him to rest up during the next 2 weeks... An injured Forberg could mean millions of $$ of revenues to this team, considering how important he is for playoff success.

Honestly, it would be irresponsible of the Flyers not to voice their concern and ask their key investment to rest up, instead of going overseas... you just don't let a $6mill investment risk injury for another team, when it doesn't help your organization at all... teams are forced to take the chance though, and with many players that don't have a history of injury, or aren't going into the Olympics hurt, its' not as big a concern... for a guy like Forsberg the concern has to be there.

 

[jekoh]

A Forsberg injury in the Olympics, and him missing March, or even the first round or two in the playoffs, hurts the flyers immensly... considering that he's under contract to the team, and his overall importance, combined with his injury history already, I'd be surprised if the Flyers would want Forsberg to go, instead of taking the time to rest, heal, and be ready for the stretch drive - which for the flyers fans, and even more so for the organization that has a lot of $$ invested in a successful playoff run, is a much bigger priority. It should be for Forsberg as well, considering that he's under contract to the team.

And the contract says he can't take part in the Olympics if his team doesn't like it ?

No, olympic participation is an integral part of the contract (as part of the CBA). If the Flyers didn't want Olympians in their team, they shouldn't have signed them.

This "paying his salary" nonsense has to stop.

 

[Tuggy]

That pretty much sums up your view, doesn't it? If you don't like him make a thread about it somewhere else or start a webpage or something instead of comming in here making comments like you have.

I think everyone knows that if Forsberg, 21 days after pulling his groin, and if its healthy this weekend, Peter doesn't stand a bigger chance to get injured in the Olympics then if he had not been injured in the first place and played all of Flyers game up untill the Olympics. This discussion wouldn't even be there in the first place if Flyers management wouldn't have gone public putting Peter in the position he is right now.

I have nothing personal against Forsberg, but I'm talking more about the situation. He takes 21 days off to rest an injury and still collects money from the Flyers while they continue to tailspin. He then goes to the Olympics at "100%". He comes back from the Olympics to join the Flyers for the playoff stretch. What kind of shape do you think he's going to be in after playing in Turin? I'd be willing to bet that he gets hurt again in the Olympics if he plays.

I don't disagree that with your point about the same chance of getting injured with Sweden or Philly. But my point, which I've already stated, is that he should take the 2 week period and rest for the Flyers playoff run.

 

[Ola]

you're COMPLETELY ignoring the history of Forsberg's groin if you think your first statement is true. that thing needs to rest.

Peter said himself that he isn't worried about his groins, once they get healty. He also said that he never have had much problems with the groins. He said after he had been at that expert that it was nice that it wasn't anything wrong with the stomach because that was what he have problems with before.

 

[Ola]

Tuggy, then allot of other players should stay home and rest. So many that the NHL wouldn't be participating in the Olympics. A hockey player is never "healty".

 

[Jester]

Peter said himself that he isn't worried about his groins, once they get healty. He also said that he never have had much problems with the groins. He said after he had been at that expert that it was nice that it wasn't anything wrong with the stomach because that was what he have problems with before.

his career has been marred by consistent trouble with his groin... as well as other ailments.

 

[NFITO]

And the contract says he can't take part in the Olympics if his team doesn't like it ?

No, olympic participation is an integral part of the contract (as part of the CBA). If the Flyers didn't want Olympians in their team, they shouldn't have signed them.

This "paying his salary" nonsense has to stop.

and does the contract also say that the Flyers aren't allowed to voice their concern and ask their player to not go?

they have every right to ask this of Forsberg... just like Forsberg has every right to go whatever his team wants of him.

This nonsense about the Flyers being the wrong for asking Forsberg to sit out has to stop... it's not part of the CBA that requires them to simply let their player go without voicing their concerns... and that's what they've done. They can't tell him he can't go... all they can do is let him know as an organization they would rather he does not go... there is nothing wrong with that... infact it's reasonable to expect that from him.

and there is no nonsense about who pays his salary... Forsberg signed with the flyers, and they own his rights... as per the CBA agreement, while they don't have the right to stop him from going, they have every right to ask him not to go.

And they are fully justified in this... this is not a player without an injury history, who's 100% right now, and hasn't missed any games for his team... we're talking about a guy that has gotten injured every year.. .even during the lockout he gets injured overseas... has been injured in every season he's played in the NHL since 95!! and especially so for the past 3 years.

There is a geniune concern about his health... the Flyers, as his employers would be doing a disservice to their organization and their fans if they didn't want what's best for their organization with the asset they signed.

Anyone that thinks that the team isn't justified in asking him to step aside from the Olympics simply does not understand how important he is to the flyers, or doesn't understand which organization - team Sweden, or the Flyers - has more of their own invested $$ to lose or gain in the end.

there is simply nothing wrong with the Flyers asking him not to go!

 

[Tuggy]

Tuggy, then allot of other players should stay home and rest. So many that the NHL wouldn't be participating in the Olympics. A hockey player is never "healty".

But not every other player has sat out 8 games for his team. I don't care if it's Forsberg, Kovalchuk, Iginla or whoever...I think a certain sense of loyality and commitment needs to be shown to his employer. I know the Olympics is a really big deal in Europe but he hasn't skated with his team for 3 weeks and now he's going to go and risk further injury. We have total opposite views on this because we come from different places and that's not going to change.

The Flyers have a right to try and protect their assets.

 

[SChan*]

the ironic thing is that pronger is playing injured and the oilers want him to go so he can win gold for canada. If this was a european he wouldnt be allowed to go.

 

[Jester]

the ironic thing is that pronger is playing injured and the oilers want him to go so he can win gold for canada. If this was a european he wouldnt be allowed to go.

oh my god...