The success of the Hawks without their captain, Jonathan Toews

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by SeanMoneyHands, Feb 23, 2021.

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  1. SeanMoneyHands Registered User

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    I think it's safe to say, after 3 cups and 15 seasons, they don't really need their captain. They are doing really well without him with the emergence of the young guys stepping up. Kane should be on the top line all the time, he's just too valuable to them to not be on it. This is Kane's team. He makes his linemates that much better. DeBrincat is a PPG so far this year - 18pts in 15 games. Kane is emerging DeBrincat into a star just like he did with Panarin.

    I think if they can shop Toews and get picks for him, the Hawks would be in better shape to dump his cap hit and get younger at the same time. Does Toews make them a better team? Of course. But for 11M? No.

    Lankinen and Suter are real gems with high ceilings, Lankinen is a clear upgrade from the legend Crawford. Janmark and Zadorov are solid pick ups. Kubalik is very good and Strome, Kurashav, Hagel, Boqvist are getting better.

    DeBrincat - Suter - Kane
    Hagel - Strome - Kubalik
    Kurashev - Soderberg - Janmark
    Carpenter - Kampf - Boqvist

    Keith - Mitchell
    de Haan - Carlsson
    Zadorov - Beaudin

    Lankinen
    Subban
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  2. InfinityIggy Zagidulin's Dad

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    I don't think enough credit is give to the Hawks for finding total gems in Kubalik, Suter and Kurashev where seemingly every other team wasn't looking hard enough.

    Won't comment too much on the Toews thing.
     
  3. Koivu11 Registered User

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    Has there been any update about what’s going on with Toews’ condition?
     
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  4. ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    Do you think that they are a cup contender right now? They are fourth in their division and 10th in the league, which is certainly much better than a lot of people gave them credit for, but that isn't exactly world-beating. Also, when you factor in points percentage, they are 17th.

    I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make.
     
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  5. skinnyFAT91 Registered User

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    They have played the Redwings like 4 times with 2 more at hand... They have lost all their games against Florida teams so far and are a .500 team against other teams. Chill a bit.
     
  6. Big Daddy Cane Lion Reaves

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    In this environment, the odds of any team that Toews wants to go to (he has an NMC) trading for him without sending significant cap back are very poor.
     
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  7. deckercky Registered User

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    Losing Toews has increased the roster's intangibles, improving the team despite losing a talented player.
     
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  8. The Red Line Registered User

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    Toews will be pretty hard to move with that cap hit, along with the flat cap circumstances that every team is facing, and of course the status of his mystery condition.

    The Hawks definitely have some good young talent, and adding a healthy Dach next year will be huge as well. Not sure they need to mess with their rebuild/retool too much. If their window works out Toews would be a huge asset as a 2nd/3rd line center in a couple of seasons if they're competing by then, which seems likely.
     
  9. Mrfenn92 Proud to be American

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    The hawks still need Toews and I wish he was here now. It’s been a good start much more then any hawks fan expected.
    Still a top line center for us.
     
  10. Mrfenn92 Proud to be American

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    None and that’s ok
     
  11. DieSendungmitderMaus Registered User

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    After watching their start to the season, Toews and his super serious shtick might have held the Hawks back all along. If they'd picked a proven playoff performer like Kessel or Bäckström instead of him, I think there's a good chance they have more cups right now since their young guns seem to really thrive in a more relaxed environment while between 2010 and 2015, the Hawks relied too much on their old core, so they were tired and possibly not hungry enough in the playoffs in 2011, 12, 14 and 16. After that, they could have had the young talent that they would have developed in that scenario take over instead of tearing it down.

    Just food for thought.
     
  12. Mrfenn92 Proud to be American

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    Huh?
    What is this. Toews isn’t a proven playoff performer?
     
  13. ClydeLee Registered User

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    I think it's fair to question if Toews hurt their PP. I've felt since his concussions back in 2012 he never engaged the net enough and was often not as a great a PP scorer as it seems he should of been. Otherwise, just no.
     
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  14. Toews2Bickell It's Showtime

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    The removal of Seabrook is a far bigger deal for the team than Toews...The team would love Toews back but Seabrook was atrocious and it created a lot of unnecessary drama round the team and Colliton whether he would play each night. That problem is now gone.
     
  15. AngelDuck Rak 'em up

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    Patrick Kane was always the better player there to me. Don’t get me wrong, Toews has had an impressive career and is clutch. But Kane is a legendary offensive player career wise and still is
     
  16. FeatherHead Registered User

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    This team won’t make the playoffs. The southeast division invaded. The three teams from that division are light years better than the rest of the central, and the Hawks simply are not going to fend off St. Louis and Dallas for the last spot.

    Not having Toews is A problem. But our defense sucks colossal donkey dong. Unless Lankinen wins the Vezina, this is all window dressing.

    We still have damned near an entire rookie class on the blue line.

    Toews out. Dach out. Nylander out. Shaw out. Sea took out. Murphy out. Sure I’m missing more.
     
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  17. Korg My name is Korg; I'm made of rocks.

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    Great goaltending makes a huge difference.
     
  18. ClydeLee Registered User

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    They already had great goaltending before.
     
  19. Geoist Registered User

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    They are doing much better than expected, but I don't think anyone else is arguing the Hawks are better without the Captain.
     
  20. SimpleJack Registered User

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    Right now this season(even if they make the playoffs) they aren't a Cup contender, no matter how well things may end up going.

    However, it is possible that by as soon as next season they can reach that level, and IMO it would require a healthy Toews. He's still very good, as we saw in the bubble playoff.

    You take all this young talent, add another year of development and growth, the return of Kirby Dach(who is probably the best of all their young players), AND add Toews back into the mix too? There's a lot to like there. I can't stress enough how impressive what they're currently doing is given the fact they are without their top 2 centers. That really goes to show how bright the future is. Imagine EDM without McDavid and Draisaitl? Or TOR without Matthews and Tavares? PIT without Crosby and Malkin? It would be a disaster. But somehow these Hawks aren't effected...VERY impressive.

    I personally think its more realistic for the Hawks to need 2 mores years as opposed to only 1, so more like 2022-2023, because they still need more experience for their young defenseman. The blueline is a work in progress and several key pieces are either rookies or only in their 2nd season.

    But its not out of the realm of possibilities for them to be contending come next season. I just think Toews would have to be included, because that adds another legit top line caliber center.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  21. Esq in terrorem Sponsor

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    We've had a good debate going on the Hawks board about why this team, despite so many injuries to key players (including Toews), has found success early in the season. Jury still out, but as someone mentioned above, the difference isn't goaltending. Hawks had solid goalies last year and stunk.
     
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  22. SimpleJack Registered User

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    Its a combination of several factors including the goaltending. Its the PP, the coaching, the improved commitment to team defense(however they still look bad at times like these past 2 games for instance, even though they won tonight), the collection of new forwards(several of them rookies) that have all performed very well, Kubalik proving he's legit and not just a one-hit-wonder, DeBrincat bouncing-back to his 40-goal form, Kane doing what he does and remaining as elite as ever, etc...
     
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  23. ForumNamePending Registered User

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    A couple of things...

    1) Given the insane love he got at the height of his powers it's easy to understand why piling on Toews now is kind of fun, but I dunno... At this point it seems he has become underrated.:dunno: Over the past two seasons he has put up 150 points in a 161 games (including playoffs)... That's pretty productive, maybe not $10+ million/year productive, but I fail to see how Chicago is better right now without him in the lineup.

    2) Chicago isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. They're treading water and half their wins have come against Detroit.

    Ya... Chicago really has done incredibly well in finding/signing talent (and giving that talent a shot) from the "older and overlooked" European market. As you said Kubalik and Suter, and before them guys like Panarin and Kempny (things eventually went south with the latter, but he would later become a important player on a Cup winner).
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  24. nowhereman Registered User

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    It's something alright...
     
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  25. SimpleJack Registered User

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    They're definitely not "lighting the world on fire", nobody is saying they are. But they're way better than many expected or realize, and they're much better than "treading water" as of late. I'm pretty sure they're like 8-2-2 in their past 12 or something like that. That's pretty good. And they've beaten Dallas twice, Carolina twice, the Jackets(who are still a decent team), etc. Its not like they're only able to beat DET....
     

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