The stock market thread Part II (The GME Phenomenom)

zombie kopitar

custom title
Jul 3, 2009
6,056
929
Best Coast
sure fundamentals are worth it to the point where maybe they could have staved off defeat from the shorts from their own business acumen , but the reddit movement is why it could bankrupt 1/3 of wall street. idk we will see, i'm holding a bit of both but down some money from this all cause i bought in pretty high in january and then sold half of it. Hopefully it just becomes a write off in the next few weeks/months
 

Jiminy Cricket

#TeamMeat
Mar 9, 2014
2,173
2,112
1. This jumps off one of the lower points the Dow was at in the 1978-1982 range, when it was already about 65% off the 1965 high and had dropped below the 1974 low. Of course it's going to look really good from there. Spoiler: we're not at the same point in time in 2020. Jump off March, 2000 and see how those gains look compared to having sat in Treasuries or even a money market account.

2. Even with today's massive rally, everyone who's "systematically put money to work continuously" (read: dollar-cost averaging) in the market is still flat for the last 5 1/2 years. Not "flat after accounting for inflation," I mean "your total return over that period is 0.00%." As of yesterday's close, you were flat for nearly 7 years. If (when) we hit 2100, you'll be flat for 8 years. 2000? 8 1/2 years. 1250 (about where I expect we'll land)? 23 years of buy-and-hold gains will be wiped out. 25 points below that? It'll wipe out everything back to 1995. Inflation-adjusted? It's even worse.

Short-term timing? I agree, 99.99% of people shouldn't do that. Long-term "set it and forget it" a la Ron Pompeil, though? That's just as dumb, IMO. Gains are paper only until you sell, and way too many people won't do that because they fear losing more gains. Buy-and-hold is great as long as stocks go up forever. When they don't, buy-and-hold quickly turns into losses because your cost basis has increased over time. Never be afraid to take gains, don't just put blind faith in "everything will always go back up" because like irrational behavior on the way up, the market can stay irrational longer on the way down than you want to believe is possible.
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Hockey Outsider

Registered User
Jan 16, 2005
9,126
14,334
Not to keep beating a dead horse, but here's a quote from a Hussman article from October 2017:

"Based on the consensus of the most historically-reliable market valuation measures we identify, the U.S. equity market is now at the most offensive level of overvaluation in history, exceeding even the levels observed in 1929 and 2000".

On October 1st, 2017, the S&P closed at 2,529. It's most recent close was 4,327. That's a gain of 71% in 3 years, 9 months. Annualized, that's about 15.4%. (I wanted to quote his older articles, where he made similar claims, but they seem to have been removed from his site - perhaps because they were so spectacularly wrong).

"With the S&P 500 likely to lose more than -60% by the completion of the current market cycle, it will be fine if the initial few percent lower do nothing for us."

He doesn't define what exactly he means by "completion of the current market cycle". But the S&P's lowest close in March 2020 (during the peak uncertainty as the pandemic escalated rapidly) was 2,237. Hussman called for a drop of more than 60%. Even with a once-per-century pandemic, that Hussman couldn't have foreseen, which directly caused the market to crash, the S&P was only down about 11% from when he published that article. Obviously it's not good to lose 11% over 2.5 years, but that's a far cry from the 60% he was calling for.

How did Hussman's Strategic Growth Fund do? It was at $6.41 on October 1st, 2017. It dropped as low as $5.20 during Q1 2020. It's since rebounded to $6.60. So his fund dropped 19% during the initial pandemic scare (more than the market as a whole - a shockingly bad result since the fund, in his words, has "emphasis on the protection of capital during unfavorable market conditions").

If you bought his fund in October 2017, you'd be up 3% since he published his doomsday article. That's not 3% per year - 3% in total over 3 years, 9 months. You'd have made more money with a GIC - and have stomached far less volatility.

Hussman's articles are interesting, I'll grant that, but he's been spectacularly wrong. To quote myself - the problem with a perma-bear is, even though they'll sometimes be right, you'll miss out on so much growth in the years they're wrong, that you end up way behind as a result. Hopefully nobody here took his advice when his articles were mentioned 15 months ago.
 

Thucydides

Registered User
Dec 24, 2009
8,153
845
The stock market is about to collapse in the next 4 weeks. 2008 style . what stocks should we buy in case that happens ?
 

oldunclehue

Registered User
Jun 16, 2010
1,222
1,325
The stock market is about to collapse in the next 4 weeks. 2008 style . what stocks should we buy in case that happens ?

Invest in things people need, tech, medical, basic foods, energy sector. Went a collapse happens, having the ability to buy cheap will work out in the long run.

Why do you predict it will in the next 4 weeks?
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,172
23,496
The stock market is about to collapse in the next 4 weeks. 2008 style . what stocks should we buy in case that happens ?

Are you asking which stocks to buy before, or after it collapses? In the next 4 weeks? Why such a specific time frame?
 

Thucydides

Registered User
Dec 24, 2009
8,153
845
Are you asking which stocks to buy before, or after it collapses? In the next 4 weeks? Why such a specific time frame?
I don’t know about 4 weeks. That’s just me being extremely short sighted . I just figure with inflation and people’s budgets being tighter we will see the market fall. Food and gasoline prices aren’t going to get any better going forward it seems .

I’m interested in food prices due to Ukraine and Russian war , both of them major major producers of wheat .
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,172
23,496
. I just figure with inflation and people’s budgets being tighter we will see the market fall. Food and gasoline prices aren’t going to get any better going

These aren't direct leading indicators of the direction of the stock market. Even watching leading indicators, cannot allow someone to accurately predict the timing of a bear market, or correction.

What you choose to buy, after a Bear market, depends on a lot of factors, mostly what you expect to be a leader in the next Bull market, and how far down, your favoured companies fall. Noting, stocks that lead a prior Bull market, rarely (actually never) are the leaders of the next one.
 
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Thucydides

Registered User
Dec 24, 2009
8,153
845
These aren't direct leading indicators of the direction of the stock market. Even watching leading indicators, cannot allow someone to accurately predict the timing of a bear market, or correction.

What you choose to buy, after a Bear market, depends on a lot of factors, mostly what you expect to be a leader in the next Bull market, and how far down, your favoured companies fall. Noting, stocks that lead a prior Bull market, rarely (actually never) are the leaders of the next one.

This is true. I’ve got my eye on BYND right now.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,332
17,259
I invested in real-estate and made 1m in 2 years. Now ready to dump money in the stock market.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,332
17,259
My average Ether buy-in was $80. Sooo as of now I am up around 1250%. I'd say my crypto is doing VERY well ;) Wonder how many of your stocks are up that much ;)
As I said I'm up 1m over 2 years in real-estate. That was the play the last couple years.
 

EXTRAS

Registered User
Jul 31, 2012
8,902
5,353
How much lower is this market going. Sitting on some cash, might start buying very slowly soon.

Well the TSX is down 15% but inflation isn't under control yet, and they are talking about us going into a recession now, so I'd think it goes down a way still. I'm still HODLing which is probably dumb of me but I've got a good chunk on the side too waiting to put in...will probably wait a few more interest rate increases.
 

dortt

Registered User
Sep 21, 2018
5,314
2,662
Houston, TX
is this the main stock thread now that the covid forum closed?

Holding a good bit of my net worth in cash and my home equity (house fully paid off),waiting for the inevitable drop

Expecting a series of 75-150 basis point rate hikes until inflation gets under control based upon the fed's statements
 

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