OT: The significance of your profile picture

[Mrb1p]

I'd wager that mutts in shelters have better quality care than you find in most purebred puppy mills. There is no good reason to limit oneself to a purebred. It's all about the vanity of the owner when all is said and done.

And never mind dogs that don't need to be born; we've got entire breeds that shouldn't exist because it's impossible for them to give birth naturally (I'm looking at you, English bulldog owners) or even to inseminate naturally (I'm talking to you, French bulldog owners)

Well seema like we agreed pretty much. I know frenchies are cute as hell but its quite ridiculous as a whole.

 

[Canadienna]

Im not shaming anyone

Also, I cant see why being a biologist should change anything. You want to tell me some dogs have different trairs? Sure, never said otherwise. You want to tell me some breeda are better pets than others? Ill call rubbish to that and thats exactly the point of NOT going for the breed you want. Mostly driven by what you like visually.
.

Right, I guess next time I go out duck hunting I’ll bring my neighbors French bulldog who can barely breathe, and leave my lab which has been bred for centuries for it.

You may be acting the victim now, but this started by you calling people out for no good reason.

 

[Laurentide]

Right, I guess next time I go out duck hunting I’ll bring my neighbors French bulldog who can barely breathe, and leave my lab which has been bred for centuries for it.

You may be acting the victim now, but this started by you calling people out for no good reason.

There's a big difference between choosing a dog based on specific tasks you want it bred to perform and choosing one based on esoteric factors which have more to do with the owner's vanity than anything to do with the actual dog itself. Obviously if you're a farmer and your barn is infested with rodents you're going to want a terrier of some sort to kill them. If you go duck hunting you want a retriever of some sort. If you're a sheep herder you get a herding dog (or a talking pig) But so-called "working dogs" aren't necessarily the same as pets and they are chosen for their specific skill set more than their companionship. It's possible for them to be both, but if you have a specific need then sure, the breed of the dog is the most important factor.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Because it's my choice. I want a purebred Alaskan Malamute from a reputable breeder and that's what I am going to get.

This idea that all breeders are the cause of dogs in shelters is just BS. The cause is puppy mills, backyard breeders and unscrupulous breeders that are in it to try and make a buck. A reputable breeder that shows their dogs and does proper health testing and limits to one or two litters a year make little or no money from it and do it because of their love of the breed.

I've had two mixed breed dogs, one given to my by a friend when it was 8 weeks old, after a co-worker of his father's did bother to spay and neuter his two dogs and ended up with a bunch of Alaskan Malamute (mother) and German Shepherd/Lab mix (father). My second dog was a doberman mix who was about 8 months old when he was brought into a pet food and grooming store I worked at during my CEGEP days by a customer that found it wondering her neighborhood. I took the dog in and tried to find the owner to no avail and ended up keeping it.

Since then I have had the two above pure breed Alaskan Malamutes from the same breeder, the dogs are related as in Koda is Juno's great-uncle, and I want to get another malamute from puppyhood.

If people focused their efforts on pushing government to not allow pet shops to sell dogs and cats, pushed them to stop backyard breeding and puppy mills, then dog and cat rescues would no longer be required, or their would be a lot less of them. A reputable breeder will take one of their dogs back no matter what. You are suddenly moving or just simply don't want the dog anymore, they will take it back and most have that written into the contract you sign when you get the dog.

Also a rescue dog is not for everyone. Rescues can come with unexpected bad habits that some people are no able or ready to contend with. I'm not saying I might not go the rescue route down the road but for right now that is not for me.

Sorta a propos.. Juno has gotta be the best name for a Malamute, it fits so well.

 

[OB5]

I love the Simpsons and the Habs

 

[ChikN]

Are you not entertained?!?!

 

[Runner77]

I love the Simpsons and the Habs

They both work with the same scripts.

 

[Mrb1p]

Right, I guess next time I go out duck hunting I’ll bring my neighbors French bulldog who can barely breathe, and leave my lab which has been bred for centuries for it.

You may be acting the victim now, but this started by you calling people out for no good reason.

For no good reason but the lives of millions of dogs. Fits in well with the narrative, thanks.

Anyway, dog tolling is probably .0005 of dog owners out there, and most dogs have tolling abilities too, so youll be good with your shelter lab mix, most likely.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

So, basically youre just mad that I am right? Its in your right to buy a dog from a breeder, if thats what you want, but its a ridiculous thing. A dog is a dog, and all that breeder specific trait research is not something that you, as a dog enthusiast/lover should strive for. Its a ridiculous thought to go for the dog that you like because of its looks or "temperament" if theres similar already born ones waiting in shelters just to get grabbed.

The problem isnt that they dont live happy life in the shelters, btw, most do. Its the fact that theres plenty of dogs that havent reached the shelter that dont live a decent life, or that some are in need of medical support.

People dont like it when you burst their NA confort bubble, I know.

I can't talk for others, but in my case, I don't really like being chasticize about saving dogs when it is a socio-economic problem, and if you really want to get down to the root of the problem, if you are really interested in ENDING the problem, well it is the same root cause as most of our modern problems. Our socio-economic system. I don't like this (your claims about NA comfort), because I have put all my life efforts into going at the root of the problem, and find that anything else is just like someone trying to bring down a dead tree by hacking at the branches.

Whether it's people who save dogs, cats, volunteering, enrolling into the salvation army, joining Green Peace, or what have you, they are all helping their own self-worth and reducing the guilt felt at being priviledged, as much as they are helping. But in the end, their impact is extremely small and will never amount to much.

So here I'm about to burst your own NA comfort bubble. If you were really interested in changing things, you'd try to understand human nature, the human condition and the system we live in, and search for alternatives. This is painstakingly long. I know it is, because it is the path I have chosen, it is what has obsessed me for the greater part of my life (25 years now), have spent years reading a panoply or interlocking disciplines all related to this understanding.

This is our next revolution and it is already underway. In the next 20 years, you will hear more and more about our real nature. Not the one that has been wrongly spread over the last two centuries, but the one that actually puts human behavior in it's place. Our behavior is about context. Our behavior is mediated by our environment. Social stratification and socio-economic inequalities are at the root of most abherent and misadapted behaviors. This revolution will bring a better understanding of what needs to be done as a civilization to reduce our major societal problems. You can't create a functional system of managing human life and society without understanding human nature and the related basic needs for a good development of a functional, sociable human being.

If you really want to change things, start by reading behavioral biology and all the subjects related to it.

Any chance I get, I talk about this. Some may find me annoying, but this is the only solution for our future, our only true salvation, is a better understanding of ourselves, and the only way to advance towards a better future is to make this known.

It is virtually impossible to understand biology outside the context of environment. And this is the key. This is what needs to be understood. This concensus is in its infancy, so most people are unaware of it, but sooner it spreads, the better, and scientific truths like this one will eventually take hold. But since we have an urgent need to find alternatives to our present way of living, the spread of this knowledge is the one single most important thing anyone can do. There is no other path. I searched all my life for this path, and took years before I found it, and granted, I'm a bit different than most. I get obsessed with the biggest, most complex systems we see, want to understand them. I don't care to be right either, I care to understand, quite simply.

So yeah... bad me for wanting a specific dog over a stray. I don't feel ashamed one bit as I put in the effort at the right place to change this world, while you concern yourself with saving strays, I want to change the world for everyone, including strays.

BTW, im saying all of this respectfuly. it's not a rant.

 

[MtlBoxFan]

It is my favorite facial expression, from my favorite scene from my favorite hockey movie.
How they had Paul Newman, who doesn't even like to swear, transform into Reggie Dunlop is beyond me.

 

[OB5]

I can't talk for others, but in my case, I don't really like being chasticize about saving dogs when it is a socio-economic problem, and if you really want to get down to the root of the problem, if you are really interested in ENDING the problem, well it is the same root cause as most of our modern problems. Our socio-economic system. I don't like this (your claims about NA comfort), because I have put all my life efforts into going at the root of the problem, and find that anything else is just like someone trying to bring down a dead tree by hacking at the branches.

Whether it's people who save dogs, cats, volunteering, enrolling into the salvation army, joining Green Peace, or what have you, they are all helping their own self-worth and reducing the guilt felt at being priviledged, as much as they are helping. But in the end, their impact is extremely small and will never amount to much.

So here I'm about to burst your own NA comfort bubble. If you were really interested in changing things, you'd try to understand human nature, the human condition and the system we live in, and search for alternatives. This is painstakingly long. I know it is, because it is the path I have chosen, it is what has obsessed me for the greater part of my life (25 years now), have spent years reading a panoply or interlocking disciplines all related to this understanding.

This is our next revolution and it is already underway. In the next 20 years, you will hear more and more about our real nature. Not the one that has been wrongly spread over the last two centuries, but the one that actually puts human behavior in it's place. Our behavior is about context. Our behavior is mediated by our environment. Social stratification and socio-economic inequalities are at the root of most abherent and misadapted behaviors. This revolution will bring a better understanding of what needs to be done as a civilization to reduce our major societal problems. You can't create a functional system of managing human life and society without understanding human nature and the related basic needs for a good development of a functional, sociable human being.

If you really want to change things, start by reading behavioral biology and all the subjects related to it.

Any chance I get, I talk about this. Some may find me annoying, but this is the only solution for our future, our only true salvation, is a better understanding of ourselves, and the only way to advance towards a better future is to make this known.

It is virtually impossible to understand biology outside the context of environment. And this is the key. This is what needs to be understood. This concensus is in its infancy, so most people are unaware of it, but sooner it spreads, the better, and scientific truths like this one will eventually take hold. But since we have an urgent need to find alternatives to our present way of living, the spread of this knowledge is the one single most important thing anyone can do. There is no other path. I searched all my life for this path, and took years before I found it, and granted, I'm a bit different than most. I get obsessed with the biggest, most complex systems we see, want to understand them. I don't care to be right either, I care to understand, quite simply.

So yeah... bad me for wanting a specific dog over a stray. I don't feel ashamed one bit as I put in the effort at the right place to change this world, while you concern yourself with saving strays, I want to change the world for everyone, including strays.

BTW, im saying all of this respectfuly. it's not a rant.

jesus christ

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

jesus christ

Anything else to add, or do you want to keep on praying for salvation?

 

[OB5]

Anything else to add, or do you want to keep on praying for salvation?

"It's not a rant"

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

"It's not a rant"

It wasn't a rant. Some subjects are complicated and need more than just a few sentences to be well explained.

It isn't a rant because I feel it's important to talk about this, it's not to make me feel better, which is what a rant is, an outlet.

 

[Chili]

It is my favorite facial expression, from my favorite scene from my favorite hockey movie.
How they had Paul Newman, who doesn't even like to swear, transform into Reggie Dunlop is beyond me.

The Reggie Dunlop character was based on John Brophy. I remember how he looked like he was ready to blow his top behind the Leafs bench. Apparently Al Pacino wanted that role too. Newman had played hockey when he was young.

Great movie.

 

[Mrb1p]

I can't talk for others, but in my case, I don't really like being chasticize about saving dogs when it is a socio-economic problem, and if you really want to get down to the root of the problem, if you are really interested in ENDING the problem, well it is the same root cause as most of our modern problems. Our socio-economic system. I don't like this (your claims about NA comfort), because I have put all my life efforts into going at the root of the problem, and find that anything else is just like someone trying to bring down a dead tree by hacking at the branches.

Whether it's people who save dogs, cats, volunteering, enrolling into the salvation army, joining Green Peace, or what have you, they are all helping their own self-worth and reducing the guilt felt at being priviledged, as much as they are helping. But in the end, their impact is extremely small and will never amount to much.

So here I'm about to burst your own NA comfort bubble. If you were really interested in changing things, you'd try to understand human nature, the human condition and the system we live in, and search for alternatives. This is painstakingly long. I know it is, because it is the path I have chosen, it is what has obsessed me for the greater part of my life (25 years now), have spent years reading a panoply or interlocking disciplines all related to this understanding.

This is our next revolution and it is already underway. In the next 20 years, you will hear more and more about our real nature. Not the one that has been wrongly spread over the last two centuries, but the one that actually puts human behavior in it's place. Our behavior is about context. Our behavior is mediated by our environment. Social stratification and socio-economic inequalities are at the root of most abherent and misadapted behaviors. This revolution will bring a better understanding of what needs to be done as a civilization to reduce our major societal problems. You can't create a functional system of managing human life and society without understanding human nature and the related basic needs for a good development of a functional, sociable human being.

If you really want to change things, start by reading behavioral biology and all the subjects related to it.

Any chance I get, I talk about this. Some may find me annoying, but this is the only solution for our future, our only true salvation, is a better understanding of ourselves, and the only way to advance towards a better future is to make this known.

It is virtually impossible to understand biology outside the context of environment. And this is the key. This is what needs to be understood. This concensus is in its infancy, so most people are unaware of it, but sooner it spreads, the better, and scientific truths like this one will eventually take hold. But since we have an urgent need to find alternatives to our present way of living, the spread of this knowledge is the one single most important thing anyone can do. There is no other path. I searched all my life for this path, and took years before I found it, and granted, I'm a bit different than most. I get obsessed with the biggest, most complex systems we see, want to understand them. I don't care to be right either, I care to understand, quite simply.

So yeah... bad me for wanting a specific dog over a stray. I don't feel ashamed one bit as I put in the effort at the right place to change this world, while you concern yourself with saving strays, I want to change the world for everyone, including strays.

BTW, im saying all of this respectfuly. it's not a rant.

The post lacks respect, not in tone, but because you assume who I am and what I do. You also assume that I dont know any of this, or that I do not care about any of this or even agree. To be honest, youre wrong about the impression you have of me, plain and simple.

Sitting back and ranting about how saving one dog is not going to change a thing is counter-productive, your views are utopic, it will take a god-given miracle, and your eggs are in the wrong basket, if this is the plan. Reading and ranting is going to get you nowhere.

Anyhow, you derailed a honest comversation, the point isnt wether or not the establish system is fair or right, the point is that some people want a dog, a cat, children or what ever and theres already many valid options out there.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The post lacks respect, not in tone, but because you assume who I am and what I do. You also assume that I dont know any of this, or that I do not care about any of this or even agree. To be honest, youre wrong about the impression you have of me, plain and simple.

Sitting back and ranting about how saving one dog is not going to change a thing is counter-productive, your views are utopic, it will take a god-given miracle, and your eggs are in the wrong basket, if this is the plan. Reading and ranting is going to get you nowhere.

Anyhow, you derailed a honest comversation, the point isnt wether or not the establish system is fair or right, the point is that some people want a dog, a cat, children or what ever and theres already many valid options out there.

i will respectfully disagree. Reading and understanding is probably the only thing that will push this knowledge further. and it isn't utopic in the least. It is a pragmatic understanding of what we are and what we need. It is not utopic as what I talk about is also being talked about in the scientific community, the UN and most civilized country who try to curtail our socio-economic problems. This is why you'll hear more and more about universal income and sustainability.

The fact you're telling me my eggs are in the wrong basket tells me you do not understand this line of though, the fact you describe it as utopic tells me you haven't focused on these ideas as much as you try to portray.

I'm not derailing an honest discussion, I'm responding to your vindications towards the condition of stray dogs vs what we do to curtail it. It's a drop in an ocean. Our mentalities and values will change with our culture and our culture will change by our science, our understanding of our own nature. You're the one with the eggs in the wrong basket if you believe that behavioral biology won't change our world. It is like any other human plight (racial rights, women's rights, human rights and so on) in our history, there comes a day when things change. Our perception and values will change because of this knowledge. It's a slow and long process, minds and values in a society change over time and this will be central to our development as a civilization in the centuries to come. I chose to spread this because mentalities won't change until this knowledge spreads. This is about what's relevant and what is irrelevant, to one's abiltity to remove judgement and bias from our outlook and replace it with an understanding of why people are like they are, and why they act like they act.

 

[Mrb1p]

i will respectfully disagree. Reading and understanding is probably the only thing that will push this knowledge further. and it isn't utopic in the least. It is a pragmatic understanding of what we are and what we need. It is not utopic as what I talk about is also being talked about in the scientific community, the UN and most civilized country who try to curtail our socio-economic problems. This is why you'll hear more and more about universal income and sustainability.

The fact you're telling me my eggs are in the wrong basket tells me you do not understand this line of though, the fact you describe it as utopic tells me you haven't focused on these ideas as much as you try to portray.

I'm not derailing an honest discussion, I'm responding to your vindications towards the condition of stray dogs vs what we do to curtail it. It's a drop in an ocean. Our mentalities and values will change with our culture and our culture will change by our science, our understanding of our own nature. You're the one with the eggs in the wrong basket if you believe that behavioral biology won't change our world. It is like any other human plight (racial rights, women's rights, human rights and so on) in our history, there comes a day when things change. Our perception and values will change because of this knowledge. It's a slow and long process, minds and values in a society change over time and this will be central to our development as a civilization in the centuries to come. I chose to spread this because mentalities won't change until this knowledge spreads. This is about what's relevant and what is irrelevant, to one's abiltity to remove judgement and bias from our outlook and replace it with an understanding of why people are like they are, and why they act like they act.

Oh there we are again, assuming things. Why do we assume so much when our beliefs are challenged? It must be part of behavioral biology, tell me more.

Anyway, its utopic because instead of trying to physically fix the problem, you put it up on the behavioural biologys to do list. I understand what you mean, I understand that what is right or wrong is not always, right or wrong or what ever kind of nuisances you want to add.

Youll have to explain the implications of behavioral biology and the fact that animals/humans are in need and are ignored for what ever reasons, and how this will fix the problem, not in twenty years, but tomorrow.


And to be fair, I dont disagree with anything you say, I think theres a real issue with some people and their understanding of their thought process/feelings.

 

[beowulf]

Sorta a propos.. Juno has gotta be the best name for a Malamute, it fits so well.

Ya I chose the name because of the city of Juneau, Alaska and because of the Juno the Roman goddess known as the protector.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Oh there we are again, assuming things. Why do we assume so much when our beliefs are challenged? It must be part of behavioral biology, tell me more.

Anyway, its utopic because instead of trying to physically fix the problem, you put it up on the behavioural biologys to do list. I understand what you mean, I understand that what is right or wrong is not always, right or wrong or what ever kind of nuisances you want to add.

Youll have to explain the implications of behavioral biology and the fact that animals/humans are in need and are ignored for what ever reasons, and how this will fix the problem, not in twenty years, but tomorrow.

And you just proved what I was saying about you not understanding this logic.

You can't physically change the problem without understanding it.

Our dominant westernized view of human nature is an outdated philosophical understanding based on old notions of genetics, volition, responsability, the antiquated rule of Law, knowing right from wrong, punishment and competition. This view is kept in place because it permits those who lead society to disregard the underlying factors that contribute to the abherent behaviors, because it goes completetly against the fundamental pillars of our socio-economic system, the one that they profit from, which is scarcity, whereas humans need abundance to develop optimally. Violence, greed and social instability all stem from this system of social stratification and competition. Human social misadaptation stems from lack of basic needs in nurturing environments.

Most first world countries's think tanks are starting to recognize this, and it comes directly from all the disciplines that make up behavioral biology.

I don't even need to explain it. Simply go look at the findings on social inequality in sociology, which have been replicated several time since Richard Wilkinson's research came out. This goes hand in hand with the same inscreasingly recognized logic in biological sciences, and in psychology/psychiatry, that human behavior is highly mediated by our social environment.

Once this knowledge spreads, as it is doing so right now, with time, a change in values will come. This change in values will regard how we percieve behavior, how we judge one another, and how we percieve the human problems we deal with. This will bring about a restructuring of how we manage human life (already started). By an increase of better life management, we will see a decrease in abherent behavior.

The system won't change until you change people's values. That is why the understanding of our nature is central to our future, to the coming changes. The physical changes will only come after realization, and there's no realization without this understanding of our own nature.

 

[beowulf]

Im not shaming anyone, I asked them why, Ozy answered and I was fine with his answer, Beo can do what ever he wants but he was pretty defensive about it and im not sure his reasoning was fair at all, and Im pretty sure he knows it.

Also, I cant see why being a biologist should change anything. You want to tell me some dogs have different trairs? Sure, never said otherwise. You want to tell me some breeda are better pets than others? Ill call rubbish to that and thats exactly the point of NOT going for the breed you want. Mostly driven by what you like visually.

I love dogs, well, I love fluffy animals mainly, every dog on this planet deserves some kind of confort, and you wont convince me Im wrong, because I know for a fact Im not.


Its similar to having a child vs adopting. Its immorality at its finest, but the comfort bubble is strong.

I am not defensive, I am fed up of hipsters like you that try and make ethical breeders a bad thing. How was my reasoning not "fair"? What does that even mean?
How the hell are you comparing getting a dog to having a human child or adopting a human child?

You might think you are right, not sure what you think you are right about, but you aren't. If the world only had ethical breeders, there would be no dog shelters.

 

[Laurentide]

The post lacks respect, not in tone, but because you assume who I am and what I do. You also assume that I dont know any of this, or that I do not care about any of this or even agree. To be honest, youre wrong about the impression you have of me, plain and simple.

Sitting back and ranting about how saving one dog is not going to change a thing is counter-productive, your views are utopic, it will take a god-given miracle, and your eggs are in the wrong basket, if this is the plan. Reading and ranting is going to get you nowhere.

Anyhow, you derailed a honest comversation, the point isnt wether or not the establish system is fair or right, the point is that some people want a dog, a cat, children or what ever and theres already many valid options out there.

It will, at minimum, change the outcome for that individual dog, which makes it a worthwhile endeavor in and of itself. You can't do everything. You can only do what you can do. Using the fact that you can't save them all as an excuse to do nothing is a cop out.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It will, at minimum, change the outcome for that individual dog, which makes it a worthwhile endeavor in and of itself. You can't do everything. You can only do what you can do. Using the fact that you can't save them all as an excuse to do nothing is a cop out.

Depends on what else you do and in what else you put your time into.

 

[Mrb1p]

And you just proved what I was saying about you not understanding this logic.

You can't physically change the problem without understanding it.

Our dominant westernized view of human nature is an outdated philosophical understanding based on old notions of genetics, volition, responsability, the antiquated rule of Law, knowing right from wrong, punishment and competition. This view is kept in place because it permits those who lead society to disregard the underlying factors that contribute to the abherent behaviors, because it goes completetly against the fundamental pillars of our socio-economic system, the one that they profit from, which is scarcity, whereas humans need abundance to develop optimally. Violence, greed and social instability all stem from this system of social stratification and competition. Human social misadaptation stems from lack of basic needs in nurturing environments.

Most first world countries's think tanks are starting to recognize this, and it comes directly from all the disciplines that make up behavioral biology.

I don't even need to explain it. Simply go look at the findings on social inequality in sociology, which have been replicated several time since Richard Wilkinson's research came out. This goes hand in hand with the same inscreasingly recognized logic in biological sciences, and in psychology/psychiatry, that human behavior is highly mediated by our social environment.

Once this knowledge spreads, as it is doing so right now, with time, a change in values will come. This change in values will regard how we percieve behavior, how we judge one another, and how we percieve the human problems we deal with. This will bring about a restructuring of how we manage human life (already started). By an increase of better life management, we will see a decrease in abherent behavior.

The system won't change until you change people's values. That is why the understanding of our nature is central to our future, to the coming changes. The physical changes will only come after realization, and there's no realization without this understanding of our own nature.

I understand the basic implications of behavioral biology, its not something that is exclusive to you, we can both understand something and disagree on certain thoughts.

 

[Mrb1p]

Depends on what else you do and in what else you put your time into.

What is that logic? You stated you want to adopt a dog already FFS