The Selke Thread

[Yackiberg8]

Season	Lg	Player	Age	Tm	Pos	G	A	PTS	+/-
2014-15	NHL	Patrice Bergeron	29	BOS	C	23	32	55	2
2006-07	NHL	Rod BrindAmour	36	CAR	C	26	56	82	7
2005-06	NHL	Rod BrindAmour	35	CAR	C	31	39	70	8
1991-92	NHL	Guy Carbonneau	31	MTL	C	18	21	39	2
1989-90	NHL	Rick Meagher	36	STL	C	8	17	25	4
1983-84	NHL	Doug Jarvis	28	WSH	C	13	29	42	6
1981-82	NHL	Steve Kasper	20	BOS	C	20	31	51	-18
1979-80	NHL	Bob Gainey	26	MTL	LW	14	19	33	-1

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Provided by Hockey-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/11/2019.

8 examples in 40 years and 4 in the past 30 years does not mean it is the norm.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Tough weekend for the new Mr. Selke. No goals, no assists, -5 in two losses.

It's not just the stats though. The defense on display was utterly pathetic. Crosby was selling out his team in order to try for empty net points for himself.

 

[george14]

It's not just the stats though. The defense on display was utterly pathetic. Crosby was selling out his team in order to try for empty net points for himself.

Who would have thought this guy is on here bashing Crosby.

"It's not just the stats". Classic.

 

[Aurinko]

*Let me just grab that fcking selke*

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Tough weekend for the new Mr. Selke. No goals, no assists, -5 in two losses.

He looked like a turnstile on the two Flyer goals, yeah.

 

[aufheben]

8 examples in 40 years and 4 in the past 30 years does not mean it is the norm.

It's not a trivial percentage either. There are jut as many not listed who had an unspectacular plus/minus—not poor or negative—but definitely nothing eye-catching.

 

[AdamParrot]

 

[nowhereman]

It's not just the stats though. The defense on display was utterly pathetic. Crosby was selling out his team in order to try for empty net points for himself.

Why am I not surprised to see you've made your way to the Selke thread, lol?

 

[Sasso09]

Couturier was the clear rightful winner last year. Let's hope he doesn't get screwed two years in a row. Although this year I think Bergeron could win. Anyone other than those 2 would be a joke

 

[AdamParrot]

Couturier was the clear rightful winner last year. Let's hope he doesn't get screwed two years in a row. Although this year I think Bergeron could win. Anyone other than those 2 would be a joke

I have to agree. He should won last year. In this season it should be really between Couts and Bergeron as you said.

 

[StoneHands]

I have to agree. He should won last year. In this season it should be really between Couts and Bergeron as you said.

ROR should be in there too. If those three aren't the finalist they got it wrong.

 

[Sasso09]

ROR should be in there too. If those three aren't the finalist they got it wrong.

Agree, ROR is my 3rd.

The Barkov love is getting outrageous

 

[StoneHands]

Agree, ROR is my 3rd.

The Barkov love is getting outrageous

The Barkov love is actually really funny. I love the guy and think he's absolutely elite in both ends of the ice but I feel like people went into this season assuming Barkov would take that next step into a Selke winning season and despite the numbers not supporting it, people just keep pushing out that narrative. His time will come but this isn't the year.

He had 53 points and was a -21 in the first 56 games of the season. By that point the Panthers were in 13th place in the East and 18 points out of a playoff spot. He's made his numbers look good over the last 16 games when he has 30 points and is a +13 but by then their season was over. He has more takeaways this season but his possession numbers both raw and relative are worse and his zone starts are easier. I'm just not seeing how he should even be in the conversation without talking about subjective stats like stick checks which nobody ever talked about until that one random tweet early in the season.

 

[theslatcher]

I would think Crosby has to be the front runner for the Selke.

Doesn't have the PK time.

 

[Vujtek]

Doesn't have the PK time.

If that's the case, pegs the question does Bergeron have the necessary 5v5 time for Selke?

Crosby 15:43 ATOI (1st in his team amongst forwards)
Stone 15:25 (1st)
Couturier 15:23 (1st)
Barkov 15:22 (1st)
O'Reilly 14:31 (1st)
Bergeron 12:27 (5th)

Why is emphasis on PK time over 5v5 time as most of hockey (and thus defensive situations) are played on 5v5? Bergeron is seriously lacking those minutes against other Selke contenders on the most common situation in all of hockey.

 

[theslatcher]

If that's the case, pegs the question does Bergeron have the necessary 5v5 time for Selke?

Crosby 15:43 ATOI (1st in his team amongst forwards)
Stone 15:25 (1st)
Couturier 15:23 (1st)
Barkov 15:22 (1st)
O'Reilly 14:31 (1st)
Bergeron 12:27 (5th)

Why is emphasis on PK time over 5v5 time as most of hockey (and thus defensive situations) are played on 5v5? Bergeron is seriously lacking those minutes against other Selke contenders on the most common situation in all of hockey.

Because... You'd naturally play your best defensive forwards on the PK, or as the Selke trophy puts it: the forwards who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game.

In the 2010's no player has gotten the Selke with less than 100 minutes of PK time(Well, Toews did, but that doesn't count for obvious reasons, and I think the minimum PK time number is even higher at around 114 minutes). Crosby is nowhere close to that. He has 42:40 on the PK this season, which obviously asks the questions: why isn't he getting the time on the PK?

 

[Vujtek]

Because... You'd naturally play your best defensive forwards on the PK, or as the Selke trophy puts it: the forwards who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game.

In the 2010's no player has gotten the Selke with less than 100 minutes of PK time(Well, Toews did, but that doesn't count for obvious reasons, and I think the minimum PK time number is even higher at around 114 minutes). Crosby is nowhere close to that. He has 42:40 on the PK this season, which obviously asks the questions: why isn't he getting the time on the PK?

Penguins have always opted to utilize role players (Cullen, Adams, Glass, Sutter etc.) on PK over Crosby/Malkin and thus have them fresh after the PK.

PK time is overvalued in Selke discussions. Datsyuk dominated the award for years and he wasn't a big time PK'er either. PK didn't seem to be any factor with him dominating the award, and should not be any kind of determining factor today. Most of hockey is played on 5v5 and the defensive play on there should be the determining factor over PK.

 

[StoneHands]

*Let me just grab that fcking selke*

Sooo close to dropping back to being double digits in the minus.

 

[theslatcher]

Penguins have always opted to utilize role players (Cullen, Adams, Glass, Sutter etc.) on PK over Crosby/Malkin and thus have them fresh after the PK.

PK time is overvalued in Selke discussions. Datsyuk dominated the award for years and he wasn't a big time PK'er either. PK didn't seem to be any factor with him dominating the award, and should not be any kind of determining factor today. Most of hockey is played on 5v5 and the defensive play on there should be the determining factor over PK.

Datsyuk's PK time when winning the Selke:

07/08: 148:34
08/09: 132:46
09/10: 59:22

Yes, he had one season where he wasn't a big time PK'er while winning the Selke. Still had more time on the PK that season than Crosby will this season, and was used far more in the d-zone than Crosby. Doesn't matter if you have role players, no PK time will pretty much mean no Selke.

And something tells me the only reason you think PK time is overrated for the Selke is because you're, well, I'll let your profile picture speak for itself.

 

[FLpanthers16]

The Barkov love is actually really funny. I love the guy and think he's absolutely elite in both ends of the ice but I feel like people went into this season assuming Barkov would take that next step into a Selke winning season and despite the numbers not supporting it, people just keep pushing out that narrative. His time will come but this isn't the year.

He had 53 points and was a -21 in the first 56 games of the season. By that point the Panthers were in 13th place in the East and 18 points out of a playoff spot. He's made his numbers look good over the last 16 games when he has 30 points and is a +13 but by then their season was over. He has more takeaways this season but his possession numbers both raw and relative are worse and his zone starts are easier. I'm just not seeing how he should even be in the conversation without talking about subjective stats like stick checks which nobody ever talked about until that one random tweet early in the season.

Yeah 53 in 56 are so terrible, he would still have been PPG even with out the streak he is on.

 

[PB37]

Yeah 53 in 56 are so terrible, he would still have been PPG even with out the streak he is on.

That's got nothing to do with his defense, which was below the level of a worthy Selke candidate.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Crosby really has no business being a Selke finalist.

 

[jonu]

That's got nothing to do with his defense, which was below the level of a worthy Selke candidate.

Are you saying this because stats say so or because you actually have watched him whole season?

 

[C0DITH]

Couturier got his first real recognition as a finalist this year, he wins it this year.

 

[Vujtek]

Datsyuk's PK time when winning the Selke:

07/08: 148:34
08/09: 132:46
09/10: 59:22

Yes, he had one season where he wasn't a big time PK'er while winning the Selke. Still had more time on the PK that season than Crosby will this season, and was used far more in the d-zone than Crosby. Doesn't matter if you have role players, no PK time will pretty much mean no Selke.

And something tells me the only reason you think PK time is overrated for the Selke is because you're, well, I'll let your profile picture speak for itself.

Crosby may be my favorite current NHL'er and Penguins my favorite team but I can look things objectively regardless. Might be a foreign concept to you, based on you having to bring that up (always a good case of lacking arguments when you have to go for that). If you notice, I never said Crosby should win Selke. If you think someone deserves Selke more than him, that's fair, but if it's based on only PK time then that's a very poor argument. As proven by Datsyuk dominating the award without major PK time. And not a single Selke front runner is in top-10 in PK time (Couturier sits at 11th) so if that's the determing factor, then why don't we go that and give Selke to whomever is deemed best PK'er in the league and can be found in the top-10 in PK time? But somehow I've never come across to a campaigning someone for Selke for being the best PK'er in the league (whoever that may be?).