The San Jose first?

pzeeman

Registered User
May 15, 2013
1,227
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Aylmer
Totally off topic...but you have to wonder if this is actually effecting the Ottawa situation.

Toronto, NYR, LA, Boston, Montreal, etc. etc. cannot go the players asking for more money when they are making record profits.

Therefore the NHL needs the Ottawa's, Florida's, Arizona's, Columbus's, etc. to seemingly be losing money in order to ask the players for more of the total share. Of course the players will tell them to fix it through rev share, but if all teams were "profitable" then what leverage would the league have.

Put another way: How much would the large markets lose out in new revenue during the next CBA negotiation if new owners/management came into some of these small markets and made them profitable? (Maybe not wildly profitable. Maybe just break-even as i agree with you that their are some disadvantages that cannot be overcome without greater rev. share, or tightening contract loopholes)


If I was to go full Mel Gibson then I might even suggest the NHL told Melnyk to turn down the spring offer because it would hurt their barganing position for a struggling team to be bought up and invested heavily in...right as they are trying to claim that there is not enough money to be made by small market teams:)

I proposed this #senspiracy in September...

Karlsson mega thread vol 4 a new season, a new hope?
 
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RaMai

Registered User
Mar 6, 2011
476
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How can you say in your first sentence "While also increasing the value of the franchise", and then in the very next sentence say to opposite, "he is now decreasing the value"??

Which is it?

Is the Franchises' value increasing, or decreasing, it can't be doing both at the same time?


Annual Forbes NHL ranking values Ottawa Senators at $435M, 23rd in the league | Ottawa Business Journal


Also, the majority in here, hate the owner, and that's why they want his sell, as they believe that a sugar daddy owner is going to come in and float the team with his or hers' own money, at no cost to the fans, which at best is a pipe dream.

The value of the franchise rose, while the Euge lost the 94 Mio.
He's now devaluing the franchise by running star players out of town and running the LeBreton project against a wall.
Nobody said it's happening at the same time, context is everything...which you choose to ignore once again.

Edit:
Trying to put it in simple words that maybe even you understand:
An owner that invests 94 Mio while see the value of his investment going up by 200Mio should not see it as a loss. That's the guy most people want, Eugene Melnyk is not this guy.
 
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hawthy

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
844
682
Ottawa
Actually, I believe the majority of fans here would just like an owner to come in and inject some organizational excellence, professionalism and integrity back into the franchise.

You're arguing with a wall; I advise you to not waste your time.

Just to clarify the sentiment that the poster you are conversing with either chooses to ignore or doesn't understand (I'm not sure which), the general feeling among Sens fans, both here and at large, IS disdain with the owner - but that's where the assessment's accuracy ceases. No one wants an owner to shell out his/her/its own money to stabilize the franchise. Slowly, perhaps unknowingly in hindsight, beginning with Alfredsson leaving (but reaching a fever pitch in December 2017) people have realized that the situation status quo is hopeless. It proves itself to be more and more each day - which is why crowds have dwindled over the years to the deep hole we are in now - but no one expects to sustain a team void of fan support. I'm ready and waiting to significantly invest - and I personally know others who are - in addition to those on here who say they are, once the team is competent. Competent ownership, competent management. There's so much to fix with this franchise and the least of which is the fans. It's beyond absurd, forgetting all the other absurd stuff we have seen with the Ottawa Senators, the degree of incompetent, directionless, fabricated bullshit that is of the organization's own doing. I WANT to spend my money on Sens hockey. I dig rebuilds - I mean, no one LIKES to suck - but I dig watching a team grow. I'm not rehashing what we all know about this faux, strip-the-team-and-call-it-a-rebuild, but the notion that fans want an owner with endless money to sustain a team no one cares about is wrong. It's silliness.

So again, you're arguing with a wall. A master spin-doctor.
 

RaMai

Registered User
Mar 6, 2011
476
167
Canada
You're arguing with a wall; I advise you to not waste your time.

Just to clarify the sentiment that the poster you are conversing with either chooses to ignore or doesn't understand (I'm not sure which), the general feeling among Sens fans, both here and at large, IS disdain with the owner - but that's where the assessment's accuracy ceases. No one wants an owner to shell out his/her/its own money to stabilize the franchise. Slowly, perhaps unknowingly in hindsight, beginning with Alfredsson leaving (but reaching a fever pitch in December 2017) people have realized that the situation status quo is hopeless. It proves itself to be more and more each day - which is why crowds have dwindled over the years to the deep hole we are in now - but no one expects to sustain a team void of fan support. I'm ready and waiting to significantly invest - and I personally know others who are - in addition to those on here who say they are, once the team is competent. Competent ownership, competent management. There's so much to fix with this franchise and the least of which is the fans. It's beyond absurd, forgetting all the other absurd stuff we have seen with the Ottawa Senators, the degree of incompetent, directionless, fabricated bull**** that is of the organization's own doing. I WANT to spend my money on Sens hockey. I dig rebuilds - I mean, no one LIKES to suck - but I dig watching a team grow. I'm not rehashing what we all know about this faux, strip-the-team-and-call-it-a-rebuild, but the notion that fans want an owner with endless money to sustain a team no one cares about is wrong. It's silliness.

So again, you're arguing with a wall. A master spin-doctor.

Thanks bud, your post triggered me to look for the ignore feature (found it!) and I will not interact with this user again!

Cheers!
 
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GrantLemons

Church of FYOUS
Feb 3, 2013
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Ottawa, ON
You're arguing with a wall; I advise you to not waste your time.

Just to clarify the sentiment that the poster you are conversing with either chooses to ignore or doesn't understand (I'm not sure which), the general feeling among Sens fans, both here and at large, IS disdain with the owner - but that's where the assessment's accuracy ceases. No one wants an owner to shell out his/her/its own money to stabilize the franchise. Slowly, perhaps unknowingly in hindsight, beginning with Alfredsson leaving (but reaching a fever pitch in December 2017) people have realized that the situation status quo is hopeless. It proves itself to be more and more each day - which is why crowds have dwindled over the years to the deep hole we are in now - but no one expects to sustain a team void of fan support. I'm ready and waiting to significantly invest - and I personally know others who are - in addition to those on here who say they are, once the team is competent. Competent ownership, competent management. There's so much to fix with this franchise and the least of which is the fans. It's beyond absurd, forgetting all the other absurd stuff we have seen with the Ottawa Senators, the degree of incompetent, directionless, fabricated bull**** that is of the organization's own doing. I WANT to spend my money on Sens hockey. I dig rebuilds - I mean, no one LIKES to suck - but I dig watching a team grow. I'm not rehashing what we all know about this faux, strip-the-team-and-call-it-a-rebuild, but the notion that fans want an owner with endless money to sustain a team no one cares about is wrong. It's silliness.

So again, you're arguing with a wall. A master spin-doctor.

I appreciate the concern. I'm on here enough to know the poster's M.O.

Your point is very well put, and very accurately sums up how so many of us feel.

Stay strong, my friend.

It’s always darkest just before the dawn. The Golden Years for the Senators are still ahead. - Cyril Leeder, 2018
 

NorthCoast

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May 1, 2017
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The NHL is the owners AKA BoGs, they hired Bettman to be commissioner, and he,or anyone else outside of the BoGs have anything to say to an individual owner, on what offer they should or should not take.

Any offer EM gets, is for him to consider or reject.

As far as the struggles the small market teams are having with the rising Salary Cap and the exchange rate and other issues, I'm pretty sure the BoGs/Owners discuss this all the time, as too may weak sisters is not good for the overall health of the league, and that's why I expect a lockout, as soon as September this year.

Also, I don't there are any potential owners, that would come into Ottawa, without doing their due diligence.

"Investing heavily" by a new owner is not going to happen, as they know what revenues the market is capable of generating, and they'd be foolish to squander away their own money, never to see it come back through increased revenues.

I keep going back to this Citizen article, and I know a lot of people want to believe it totally "fake news", but it comes from reliable sources, and reflects on how the Franchise has been run ( on revenues generated) since the owner decided to stop "Floating" the franchise.

Under Eugene Melnyk, Senators have lost $94 million

By invested heavily, I was more just thinking of the purchase price plus whatever for Lebreton.

On EM choosing to sell, the consiparcy would be more like: we'll make sure you personally don't lose anymore money until after the next CBA, and we promise that the team will be worth a lot more after the next CBA...just keep being poor for now so that we have more leverage against the players.

I don't actually believe that this really is happening like this obviously. But the new CBA perhaps would factor into EM's decision on a price (if he ever does want to sell in the next 2-3 years) as he gets closer to the negotiation.

The part that is really scary for Ottawa however, is that IF you believe the NHL overall is counting on improved CBA for revenue growth AND that having a handful of clubs losing money creates the leverage they need to get more from the players...as much as the small markets may have real complaints...what is the incentive for the big markets to actually solve small market revenue. Won't they want to stack the deck against small markets again for the next CBA?

Improving revenue sharing, and possibly tying to CND/US exchange rates might be as critical to Ottawa success as Lebreton. I don't have a lot of faith that EM can pull this off, but then again, I honestly don't see this happening regardless of who is owner.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Actually, I believe the majority of fans here would just like an owner to come in and inject some organizational excellence, professionalism and integrity back into the franchise.

No one is going to argue with that.

Too bad it's not up to the fans.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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The value of the franchise rose, while the Euge lost the 94 Mio.
He's now devaluing the franchise by running star players out of town and running the LeBreton project against a wall.

Yes, the $94 Million over 10 years, that EM used to Float the team, was his loss, and not the Franchises.

That's money he'll never get back, until he sells the Franchise, and even then, depending on what he sells the franchise for, he may never realize the total ROI on that $94 Million, but he'll end up with more for the franchise than what he paid for it, and the total costs of operating it.

He's told everyone, a number of years ago, that he was not longer willing to "float the team" with his own money, and was going to operate the franchised based on it's revenues.

According to Forbes, the Value of the franchise has been trending up, ever since EM took over the team.

In 2009 Forbes valued the franchise at $197 Million, and last year it was valued at $435 Million.

So not, the Franchise is not being devalued, although it only rose, in value, by 4% last year, vs 18% in the previous year.
 

Sensmileletsgo

Registered User
Oct 22, 2018
5,100
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3rd overall in the league now. Our 1st of theirs isn’t looking to good unless they have a bad year next year.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
14,712
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3rd overall in the league now. Our 1st of theirs isn’t looking to good unless they have a bad year next year.

You can’t see SJ being a lottery team next year, but you could see them miss the playoffs and then you hope the pick moves up in lottery
 

TkachukNorris79

Registered User
Jan 27, 2018
1,485
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You can’t see SJ being a lottery team next year, but you could see them miss the playoffs and then you hope the pick moves up in lottery

It really is wayyyy too early though. Still some question marks. Between Jumbo Joe and EK still not signed, and pavelski/burns only getting older (35 and 34 respectively to start the year next year).

They should be good, but it does kind of look like it could be an Anaheim/Detroit/Chicago situation there soon. After so many years of being a contender, they all fall off eventually. We just have to secretly hope that happens next year.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
14,712
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It really is wayyyy too early though. Still some question marks. Between Jumbo Joe and EK still not signed, and pavelski/burns only getting older (35 and 34 respectively to start the year next year).

They should be good, but it does kind of look like it could be an Anaheim/Detroit/Chicago situation there soon. After so many years of being a contender, they all fall off eventually. We just have to secretly hope that happens next year.

We can hope, or we can get the flu and breath on all their athletes and record their Uber rides
 
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DrakeAndJosh

Intangibles
Jun 19, 2010
11,863
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Kanata
West looks pretty weak this year. Think there’s actually a decent chance of them making the finals and Karl re-signing giving us that extra first. Absolute best case scenario is that happening and then falling apart LA style next year. Not super likely but I can hope.
 

stempniaksen

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
11,004
4,262
If they manage to re-sign EK I don't see them falling off enough to make that pick worthwhile. Without EK (and potentially Thornton) and an aging core (Pavelski, Burns, Vlasic) maybe we could hope for a drop-off next season.
 

Tuna99

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Sep 26, 2009
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West looks pretty weak this year. Think there’s actually a decent chance of them making the finals and Karl re-signing giving us that extra first. Absolute best case scenario is that happening and then falling apart LA style next year. Not super likely but I can hope.

If Dorion was a genius he’d trade Duch to the Oilers and Stone to Vegas and that would guarantee the Pacific would be way tougher division next year and SJ would have a harder time qualifying for the playoffs next year.
 
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Alex1234

Registered User
Oct 14, 2014
16,071
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The NHL is the owners AKA BoGs, they hired Bettman to be commissioner, and he,or anyone else outside of the BoGs have anything to say to an individual owner, on what offer they should or should not take.

Any offer EM gets, is for him to consider or reject.

As far as the struggles the small market teams are having with the rising Salary Cap and the exchange rate and other issues, I'm pretty sure the BoGs/Owners discuss this all the time, as too may weak sisters is not good for the overall health of the league, and that's why I expect a lockout, as soon as September this year.

Also, I don't there are any potential owners, that would come into Ottawa, without doing their due diligence.

"Investing heavily" by a new owner is not going to happen, as they know what revenues the market is capable of generating, and they'd be foolish to squander away their own money, never to see it come back through increased revenues.

I keep going back to this Citizen article, and I know a lot of people want to believe it totally "fake news", but it comes from reliable sources, and reflects on how the Franchise has been run ( on revenues generated) since the owner decided to stop "Floating" the franchise.

Under Eugene Melnyk, Senators have lost $94 million
Off topic
 

The Devilish Buffoon

🇵🇸 viva 🇵🇸 free 🇵🇸
Dec 24, 2018
11,934
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It really is wayyyy too early though. Still some question marks. Between Jumbo Joe and EK still not signed, and pavelski/burns only getting older (35 and 34 respectively to start the year next year).

They should be good, but it does kind of look like it could be an Anaheim/Detroit/Chicago situation there soon. After so many years of being a contender, they all fall off eventually. We just have to secretly hope that happens next year.

Pavelski is still not signed, either

On pace for over 40 goals, he's been their top forward in many of the games I've watched

Meier and Donskoi are also up for contract and will both need big raises... Donskoi is a UFA and could expect something similar to Dzingel while Meier is an RFA who has already smashed his career highs in points despite being just over halfway thru the season

They have about 25m in cap space.. Karlsson will get 10-12m, Pavelski will get 6-8, Donskoi will get 3.5-4.5, Meier will get 4-6, Thorton will get at leasst 2-3, even at the lower range of all those contracts, they will be right up against it...

Will be an interesting situation to track for sure but personally I think they have at least another year of being a top team in them...When they fall it will be quickly but I don't see it happening just yet
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,837
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Pavelski is still not signed, either

On pace for over 40 goals, he's been their top forward in many of the games I've watched

Meier and Donskoi are also up for contract and will both need big raises... Donskoi is a UFA and could expect something similar to Dzingel while Meier is an RFA who has already smashed his career highs in points despite being just over halfway thru the season

They have about 25m in cap space.. Karlsson will get 10-12m, Pavelski will get 6-8, Donskoi will get 3.5-4.5, Meier will get 4-6, Thorton will get at leasst 2-3, even at the lower range of all those contracts, they will be right up against it...

Will be an interesting situation to track for sure but personally I think they have at least another year of being a top team in them...When they fall it will be quickly but I don't see it happening just yet
It's still an absolute joke that we weren't able to get at least Meier in that Karlsson return.
 

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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Thanks bud, your post triggered me to look for the ignore feature (found it!) and I will not interact with this user again!

Cheers!

I have ignored just about all of them, makes any of the threads pertaining to the health of the franchise off the ice and any off ice discussions a little confusing to follow but I now am enjoying my time back on the board. Its really easy to see the motive when these posters are deleted because they actually never comment on the hockey discussion on the board. So if you are looking to discuss the hockey side of things it really doesnt effect it at all. It also just shows their motive, they arent actual sens fans they are clearly working for the organization in some capacity. Which is the number 1 reason why to block them as they have an agenda and really arent here to discuss anything, they are specifically arguing with a mandate that isnt their own. While the rest of us here just want a healthy hockey team to cheer for and invest our time in emotionally, physically and financially.

Its probably the most sad part of this entire fiasco that is the Ottawa Senators. Not spending assets on retaining players or hockey ops but spending them propeganda agents on the internet to argue with lies and false truths while spin doctoring the situation in I guess in an attempt to sell tickets? All I know is its pushed me further and futher away as a fan. I barely even watch the games on T.V anymore. Its been a slipperly slope of disinterest for me. All the extra money I have saved I bought all new Ski gear and golf clubs. Have already gone Skiing 4 times, and plan on another 5 to 10 this season which is about as much as I had gone the last 5 years combined.

If this organization wants to stop fans from leaving and finding other interests they should probalby do it quick because I am about as die hard as it gets. If they are losing someone like me then I cant imagine all the less serious fans they are losing.

Either new ownership comes in or we see Melnyk take an actual step back and clears the front office and hires real hockey professionals from the top as the president to build it back up with a true hockey ops. I will certainly not be supporting this team with Pierre Dorion as the GM and an organization who uses a puppet like Bruce Garrioch to spread propeganda.
 
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coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,781
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Yes, the $94 Million over 10 years, that EM used to Float the team, was his loss, and not the Franchises.

That's money he'll never get back, until he sells the Franchise, and even then, depending on what he sells the franchise for, he may never realize the total ROI on that $94 Million, but he'll end up with more for the franchise than what he paid for it, and the total costs of operating it.

He's told everyone, a number of years ago, that he was not longer willing to "float the team" with his own money, and was going to operate the franchised based on it's revenues.

According to Forbes, the Value of the franchise has been trending up, ever since EM took over the team.

In 2009 Forbes valued the franchise at $197 Million, and last year it was valued at $435 Million.

So not, the Franchise is not being devalued, although it only rose, in value, by 4% last year, vs 18% in the previous year.
While he has written cheques to cover the losses, there is no denying that while he will not get that money back, he can sure as hell borrow a hell of a lot more based on the value of the franchise.
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
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It’s not a joke. No smart GM would give up a high end RFA like Meier for a player with one year left on his contract.

Right. A generational D. Meier at the time had 36 pts. You could have easily made a play for someone like that. You could look at the Duchene deal and tell me how that kind of return is unrealistic. They both had the same amount of term left.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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While he has written cheques to cover the losses, there is no denying that while he will not get that money back, he can sure as hell borrow a hell of a lot more based on the value of the franchise.


Yes, and there's a cost to borrowing money, he'll have to pay back.

As the value of the Franchise rises, so does the salary cap/floor, and when operational (and Currency) expenses go up, revenues need to keep pace....... and when they don't, there has to be tough choices made, such as loans, ticket pricing, operational/player budget and all costs related to owning and maintaining the CTC, that is located where it cannot attract as many "events" it could, if it were located in Lebreton Flats.
 

Sensmileletsgo

Registered User
Oct 22, 2018
5,100
4,307
Right. A generational D. Meier at the time had 36 pts. You could have easily made a play for someone like that. You could look at the Duchene deal and tell me how that kind of return is unrealistic. They both had the same amount of term left.
Meier only had 36 points last year but it was still clear he was going to be a stud. There are only a few GMs in the league dumb enough to trade a player like that for a UFA (sadly Dorion is one). Also Duchene had another year on his contract.
I don’t like the Karlsson return, and hate how much we gave up for Duchene, but a lot of the talk around here in the summer of a deal centred around a player like Theodore or Meier was unrealistic.
 

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