WGR: The Sabres seem too fragile to be able to achieve their goals

[5 Minute Major]

At this point I wish they could hire someone to come in and evaluate from the top down and replace whoever they deem necessary, GM, coach, scouts, players, etc.....

The problem with that is who would hire that guy? The Pegula’s don’t exactly have the best track record there. They have been a blessing and a curse all in one.

I really was fooled early on. I didn’t expect them to be a top 5 team but I certainly didn’t expect this either.

The organization is a mess and I see nothing on the horizon that gets my hopes up.

 

[GellMann]

This is the scary thing for me. We’ve turned over a large chunk of the roster for this season, and it’s the same ****. What could possibly be next? Burn down the other half? Trade Eichel, Risto and Reinhart?

Turning over half of the roster involved icing the worst depth-behind-the-1C the franchise has probably ever had, certainly the worst in the league at the C position for 66% of every game, and anchoring almost every line with a player that shouldn't be in the NHL.

I'd reckon that what should be next is upgrading all of what I described.

 

[GellMann]

Talking about "the group" under all three coaches is nonsense. There are six players left who played at all under Nolan, and two of them played fewer than ten games for him.

What has fundamentally been the problem under all three coaches, once you get past the fact that the team under Nolan was expressly designed to lose games, is the forward depth has been complete ****. Lately I've been coming around to the idea that this is all a consequence of the full tear-down that the tank was. The tank teams, especially the 2014-15 team, were just completely stripped for parts to ensure a last place finish and that had an effect on the team's depth that lasted longer than anyone, either fans or management, was really prepared for. One can certainly argue the full tear-down was necessary to guarantee the last place finish, and at least get Eichel out of the 2015 draft. That said, we have seen teams, such as the 2015-16 Maple Leafs, "tank" for a year without taking the complete scorched earth approach that the Sabres took, and the difference is stark.

Murray never built up any depth around his big acquisitions that everyone hates (but who have all been rather successful since leaving Buffalo), and neither did Botterill. Unless and until they actually address the team's depth forwards in a meaningful way, it's hard to see anything changing.

The Sabres have added 500 depth forwards since the tank ended and haven't yet been able to reproduce a fully-functional NHL bottom-six. Each year has had tank-level-performing lines, some even 2. Lines that get brutally outplayed and outscored all season long, whose compositions change a little bit during the course of each season and a lot after each season. The number one reason for this is the sheer level to which we imploded the organizational forward depth on purpose for two years. It was completely unexpected to the team how hard it would be to get back to some semblance of organizational depth. The tank is not the universal-good that most Sabres fans would argue to the death that it was.

They added FOUR 20 goal scorers to the 15-16 team and still had the problem. They added another 20 goal scorer the next season and still had the problem. You can't reasonably expect the Sabres' 2015-16 additions for any team in any given offseason, it was an astounding influx of talent, and it still only got us to being well below league average and with crippling depth issues that have not been fixed.

 

[GellMann]

This team is too bad to achieve its goals. It wasn't fragile when it was notching third period goals in comebacks against cup contenders earlier in the season, tying games from down 2 with little time left and winning. The issue was that the bad parts of the roster were propped up by Hutton going through a stretch of games with a .960 save percentage. When John Gibson had the same, the Ducks had a great record at the start of the year. Both goalies came down, and so did their critically-flawed rosters with it.

 

[sufferer]

I wonder if some of our players are tanking, playing intentionally bad, to force a trade. It's possible. Each player has their own reaction when they're unhappy. If you saw Alexander Mogilny's final months as a Sabre, when he had umpteen breakaways and missed them all, you'll know what I mean. The maddening thing is our guys get traded and do better elsewhere.

When did they start tanking, though? Immediately following the winning streak? It certainly looks like they give less of a shit now, but they didn't look much better two months ago, either.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

Paul Hamilton comments after the Panthers game.


He seems to be letting Housley off the hook by blaming the players and by extension the GM.

That's a strange comment considering Nolans group to Phils group aren't the same players save for a few.

 

[truthbluth]

That's a strange comment considering Nolans group to Phils group aren't the same players save for a few.

He's trying not to just say, "Risto is the problem," because he has to go back in the lockerroom day after day. That's who he's talking about though.

 

[Jim Bob]

He's trying not to just say, "Risto is the problem," because he has to go back in the lockerroom day after day. That's who he's talking about though.

ROR is the problem!

Wait, Risto is the problem!

Who will be the problem if they trade Risto for a pile of magic beans and the team doesn't improve?

My guess is Reinhart. If only because his last name starts with R and that seems to be the trend.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

These guys have done their job all season. Eichel is a PPG+ and Reinhart is having a career year, and has shown he can produce without Jack.

The biggest issue is Mittelstadt being forced into a huge role that he hasn’t been ready for. Tage Thompson should have been developing in Rochester all season, his very presence contradicts everything Botterill says about their development plans for their young players.

Scandella has been horrific all season, and no amount of poor play will see him in the press box, there’s absolutely no accountability for the vets on this team.

Sobotka is a fourth liner at best, and another player whose immune from the press box no matter how poor he plays. Internal competition does not exist here.

This is my biggest issue with Housley.The screwing of Beaulieu for Scandella and the Sobotka love affair.Also Reinhart when playing with Mitts works well till Phil takes him off after a period.I get Phil had his hands tied on some players like Poms, Sobotka, Scandella however Thompson could have been sent down.Sobotka and Poms could have rotated as 12 and 13 player.Okposo with Girgs and Larry worked.They could have slotted Oloffson,O'reagan, and Nylander with Eichel and Skinner to see if any clicked.Erod and smith clicked and one of the above could have been tried there as well.Iam just a longtime fan and can be creative , Housley is a professional coach and tried very little of what I can even figure out.If he had a good relationship with Botts he could have just said ' hey Jason Tage needs experience in Rochester think we can call Chris and see who he recommends as a callup"? I mean hell that's what I thought they do all the time.Maybe none of the callups pan out who knows but one thing is certain, O'reagan, Ollafson Nylander, are all considered skill players which we needed in our middle 6.To not even try it is a huge letdown to the fanbase and the team.

 

[HaNotsri]

Here's another way to look at it:
If you were the coach of the opposing team - would you have trouble exposing Buffalo's weaknesses? It must be super easy to create a gameplan against us

 

[Hasekperreault23]

He's trying not to just say, "Risto is the problem," because he has to go back in the lockerroom day after day. That's who he's talking about though.

Ok gotcha thanks.Being in Windsor I don't get the Buffalo media just my sports package that's why I ask lots of question you Buffalo civilians can answer

 

[truthbluth]

ROR is the problem!

Wait, Risto is the problem!

Who will be the problem if they trade Risto for a pile of magic beans and the team doesn't improve?

My guess is Reinhart. If only because his last name starts with R and that seems to be the trend.

This is not a well thought out point. Nobody ever thought O’Reilly was an on ice problem. They thought it was culture. They were obviously wrong. It’s been obvious that Risto has been ineffective on the ice for years. They should trade Risto. They should not have traded O’Reilly. And if you dig through the archives of HFBoards threads of yore, you’ll see quite a few of us making exactly this case.

 

[Jim Bob]

This is not a well thought out point. Nobody ever thought O’Reilly was an on ice problem. They thought it was culture. They were obviously wrong. It’s been obvious that Risto has been ineffective on the ice for years. They should trade Risto. They should not have traded O’Reilly. And if you dig through the archives of HFBoards threads of yore, you’ll see quite a few of us making exactly this case.

Ummmm, I was someone who said that they shouldn't trade O'Reilly.

And I personally believe that improving the team by trading away Ristolainen will be a lot harder than some people think.

The big issue with Ristolainen is usage. He is being used like an all-around minute munching #1 and that's not who he is.

He needs a role and a D partner that maximize his abilities. But, the Sabres lack a coach that can figure that out. So, he is likely to be moved. When it happens, some segment of the fanbase will say good riddance. I just doubt that will improve the team's on ice results.

 

[Doohickie]

Girgensons has given up on his early day all-star dreams and learned to play simple and rough.

Yes, and I really like that about him. He's adapted well to the reality of his situation (unlike Berglund, for instance).

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Paul Hamilton comments after the Panthers game.


He seems to be letting Housley off the hook by blaming the players and by extension the GM.

This group didn't play under Ted Nolan. He's a professional, he should know better than to invalidate his thesis while stating it.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

The title if this thread is why we need a President of Hockey operations.

There is no leadership in this organization.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The cynic in me thinks Hamilton just wants big trades so he has easy material to write about.

But it's probably not even that intelligent. Like the piece of shit from the Buffalo news who wrote years of columns complaining about not tanking and being mediocre. When they finally went in that direction what did he do? Write years of columns about how they shouldn't have tanked.

Zero tears for the terrible beat writing in this town.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The title if this thread is why we need a President of Hockey operations.

There is no leadership in this organization.

Taking Paul Hamilton's click bait headline as a solid recommendation: "Leadership"

 

[Chainshot]

Maybe he can shit on Reinhart some more for not attending O'Reilly's extra practice sessions? Or melt down about trading McGinn?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Maybe he can **** on Reinhart some more for not attending O'Reilly's extra practice sessions? Or melt down about trading McGinn?

He's lucky his primary readership isn't obsessive like the people here. It's really awkward for sports writers when people remember what they write from one season to the next.

 

[Tyler2829]

Maybe he can **** on Reinhart some more for not attending O'Reilly's extra practice sessions? Or melt down about trading McGinn?

Did you hear him yesterday with Schopp & Bulldog saying he gives Botterill a pass for last season because he was new?

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Taking Paul Hamilton's click bait headline as a solid recommendation: "Leadership"

So you disagree, they are not fragile.

Thats one way of looking at it I guess.

 

[kp2575]

ROR is the problem!

Wait, Risto is the problem!

Who will be the problem if they trade Risto for a pile of magic beans and the team doesn't improve?

My guess is Reinhart. If only because his last name starts with R and that seems to be the trend.

In regards to what Hamilton was saying about not listening and it going back through multiple coaches, it was in direct reference to Risto, he called him out on it at the end of last season by name with the same critique. I'm not in the locker room or at practice so I don't know the validity, but in defense of Hamilton, which I can't believe I'm doing, he's been pretty steadfast in this criticism.

 

[Chainshot]

Did you hear him yesterday with Schopp & Bulldog saying he gives Botterill a pass for last season because he was new?

Luckily, I missed it.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Did you hear him yesterday with Schopp & Bulldog saying he gives Botterill a pass for last season because he was new?

Its true though. New does usually does get a pass