The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

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Montag DP

Sabres fan in...
Apr 4, 2007
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I personally am excited that in the year 2042 our GM will be Jack Eichel, our leading scorer will be Casey Mittelstadt's son, and there will still be an active ROR trade discussion thread on here.
Just think of how many more [redacted] we could have won with ROR on the roster!

PS insert joke about Eichel having been GM for 25 years at that point.
 

Dirty Dog

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Jul 11, 2013
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The doghouse
We basically traded

ROR
JT Compher
Zadorov
Grigorenko
Early 2nd Round pick

For

Bergland
Sabotka
Thompson
Late 1st Round

Thats ugly

Why are you including assets we received from the original trade as something we gave up?

If I trade a burger for ten fish, and THEN I trade one of those fish for a dollar, then I traded a burger for 9 fish and a dollar NOT a burger and a fish for 9 fish and a dollar. In other words, get ROR off your list!
 
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struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
18,243
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Upstate NY
I disagree.

IMO, I think John Vogl is probably the most reliable Sabres reporter.

But he’s not the only one who said something along these lines, either.
There have been numerous reporters who have said similar things.
Vogl occupies a similar mindspace as Bill Hoppe for me. Great when he's reporting facts, but I have no time for his analysis. Frankly, I'd rather get my takes from this board, hockey twitter, and select analytics/national folks than most of this team's most-visible reporters.

Again, I don't expect an accurate overview of team culture from someone who has already been loudly defensive of Housley, and who was so involved in the Lehner piece. This is the kind of take that's expected of someone who has already excused a major factor of poor team performance, and who can't comment on another.

Like, just looking at Lehner alone, you have a guy who:
  • Was comparatively worse at his job than O'Reilly (by a lot)
  • Plays the position most capable of dragging down a team
  • Was in the process of dealing with substance and mental issues
  • Did not possess what we think of as "good teammate body language" on the ice
  • Was probably the most publicly shaded by his teammates
And yet, we're here talking about O'Reilly being a downer. The annoying part is, that analysis doesn't even line up with why the team has been competent.

Unless you think 90 would have poisoned the well with the new acquisitions, virtually every reason we've been good is either new or was already good on the team O'Reilly supposedly sucked the life out of. The only notable exceptions are Girgensons and Beaulieu, and each are finally getting more focused roles. The depth from the Blues deal hasn't even been much of a factor, as Thompson & Sobotka have been sub-replacement.

The biggest positive from the trade - that you probably won't be hearing from Vogl anytime soon - is that it's saved Housley from himself. Skinner has forced Phil to balance offensive deployments across his top six, and Rodrigues' apparent emergence as a checker means that he finally has a defensive unit involving none of his key offensive players.

I'm not sure any of that happens if O'Reilly and his 60% win rate is still around for defensive zone faceoffs.
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
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Why are you including assets we received from the original trade as something we gave up?

If I trade a burger for ten fish, and THEN I trade one of those fish for a dollar, then I traded a burger for 9 fish and a dollar NOT a burger and a fish for 9 fish and a dollar. In other words, get ROR off your list!

I'm not following
 
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tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
29,802
21,844
We basically traded

ROR
JT Compher
Zadorov
Grigorenko
Early 2nd Round pick

For

Bergland
Sabotka
Thompson
Late 1st Round

Thats ugly

Only because you're double-counting on one side of the equation. If I sell you a widget for $5, and you turn around and trade that widget for a doohickey, did you trade $5 and a widget for a doohickey? Did you get a rawer deal than someone who just paid $5 for the doohickey? If we treat the stuff the Sabres got the same as the way you treat stuff we sent out, it looks like:

ROR
Compher
Zadorov
Grigorenko
2nd

for

ROR
McGinn
1st
Berglund
Thompson
Sobotka
 

WeDislikeEich

Registered User
Jun 22, 2015
5,862
4,181
Vogl occupies a similar mindspace as Bill Hoppe for me. Great when he's reporting facts, but I have no time for his analysis. Frankly, I'd rather get my takes from this board, hockey twitter, and select analytics/national folks than most of this team's most-visible reporters.

Again, I don't expect an accurate overview of team culture from someone who has already been loudly defensive of Housley, and who was so involved in the Lehner piece. This is the kind of take that's expected of someone who has already excused a major factor of poor team performance, and who can't comment on another.

Like, just looking at Lehner alone, you have a guy who:
  • Was comparatively worse at his job than O'Reilly (by a lot)
  • Plays the position most capable of dragging down a team
  • Was in the process of dealing with substance and mental issues
  • Did not possess what we think of as "good teammate body language" on the ice
  • Was probably the most publicly shaded by his teammates
And yet, we're here talking about O'Reilly being a downer.

Again, Vogl was far from the only one to say something along those lines.

I can’t remember everyone who has commented on it offhand.

Here’s a piece by Mike Harrington on it (and he has never been one to shy away from criticizing any Sabres player or employee including the owners)


Mike Harrington: Return shaky, but Sabres GM did strong cleanup of cap, culture with big deal

O'Reilly was supposed to be a leader and he truly was in his first season here. But his self-wallowing grew and it was hard to ignore. Was it real or, like some in the room believed, was it a show to deflect attention from his up and down play?

..... O'Reilly was polarized in the dressing room as someone who specialized more in faux leadership than actual work at the head of the herd

I know there were more articles by Harrington and others on this topic. Id have to search for more, though.

It’s not like this stuff just started after he was traded, either. There were reports of his attitude in the locker room all season. Heck, anyone who watched one of his many self wallowing post game interviews could see it for themselves...


I am not saying that a new culture will be the main reason for any Sabres success, or that it was even their biggest problem last year. There were tons of reasons they stunk.

Really, my only point was that sometimes good players need to be moved for reasons other than their on ice play and also that sometimes a change of scenery can benefit all involved, which I truly believe to be the case here.

I don’t think ROR was moved because of his on-ice play... it seems pretty clear to me that there were other reasons behind it.
 

Buffaloed

webmaster
Feb 27, 2002
43,324
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Niagara Falls
I’ve always viewed th ROR trade as a reboot of the team and locker room. I also don’t think that means he is a cancer but that parting ways was probably best for both parties. That seemed to be a similar sentiment with Skinner/Carolina.
Murray reminds me an awful lot of Brian Burke's stint with the Leafs. You probably read the article. The players Burke acquired didn't fit in with a rebuilding team and they mortgaged their future in the process. There's no shortcuts.
The worst team I ever covered: NHL writers on pissed...
 

BeTheBallDanny

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
112
42
Think about this, when Buffalo traded for ROR he was pretty much guaranteed the C during negotiations.

It took one summer and training camp to rethink that entire thing and delay naming captain. That coupled with this comment and I’d really be interested to see how much of a cloud this guy can cast in a room
 

dotcommunism

Moderator
Aug 16, 2007
5,181
3,345
Think about this, when Buffalo traded for ROR he was pretty much guaranteed the C during negotiations.

It took one summer and training camp to rethink that entire thing and delay naming captain. That coupled with this comment and I’d really be interested to see how much of a cloud this guy can cast in a room
There was a pretty significant off-ice incident involving ROR that summer.

But Gionta was already the captain, and was for O'Reilly's first two seasons here.
 
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enthusiast

cybersabre his prophet
Oct 20, 2009
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incidentally, I had no idea that miro was 22nd in the league in points/13th in goals over his time here.
 

Club

Moderator
Mar 2, 2015
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Calgary
I guess its on topic, and someone a while back pointed out Eichel said on an Episode of Spittin Chiclets that between him and ROR there was absolutely no tension or hatred towards one another.

He even went out and said some rumors came out from the media, and him and ROR ran with it.
 

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
7,226
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I guess its on topic, and someone a while back pointed out Eichel said on an Episode of Spittin Chiclets that between him and ROR there was absolutely no tension or hatred towards one another.

He even went out and said some rumors came out from the media, and him and ROR ran with it.
What do you expect him to say in public? I hate that guy? Rofl
 

SatanwasaSlovak

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
1,449
128
Malmö, Skåne
I was always weary of O'Reilly because i paid attention to Colorado the season before he was traded. That was the season after they had suprised everybody and got into the playoffs with a very young roster. The season afterwards they disappointed heavily and one of the major concerns was the attitude of those who were supposed to drive the team and amongst them were O'Reilly.

So it's not out of the question that he has a bit of a martyr-attitude. I wouldn't be suprised, it certainly looked that way that he would rather feel bad and live in misery than winning.
 
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sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
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For someone criticizing not assuming stuff we don’t know and spinning facts, you just typed out a conspiracy theory

That’s the point dude. The real reason the team got rid of him is not known. That’s why you won’t see me randomly throw out that possibility to explain how things are. That’s why I’m saying it’s bunk to come out and say after three games, 1 of which they looked absolutely terrible in, and say they got rid of a real negative dude and now things are better. It’s silly.

Come tell me that in January when the team has over come some adversity and is still in playoff contention, and the Blues have strife in the locker room.

Because otherwise it’s pointless axe grinding for managements benefit, because at the end of the day, O’Reilly was one of their only good players last year and who had been to the playoffs. Maybe, just maybe, his attitude had a lot less to do with sucking, than Justin Falk getting 18 minutes a night.
 

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,276
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Mighty Taco, NY
So it's not out of the question that he has a bit of a martyr-attitude. I wouldn't be suprised, it certainly looked that way that he would rather feel bad and live in misery than winning.
I sincerely doubt he preferred feeling bad and losing versus feeling good and winning. Unfortunately, the teams he was on either by accident or by design weren't going to win regardless of how well he played. That's where you start seeing the line between being a leader and not. By all accounts ROR was well liked in the room, but you can't have a guy making the money he was and in the prominent role he was... not having the attitude that every game is winnable. On the ice and off the ice. Especially for the young guys.

Maybe, just maybe, his attitude had a lot less to do with sucking, than Justin Falk getting 18 minutes a night.
Maybe, just maybe, he should've been happy to be making millions of dollars playing a game he loves... and not had an attitude at all? Who gives a shit about Justin Falk.
 
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Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
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I was always weary of O'Reilly because i paid attention to Colorado the season before he was traded. That was the season after they had suprised everybody and got into the playoffs with a very young roster. The season afterwards they disappointed heavily and one of the major concerns was the attitude of those who were supposed to drive the team and amongst them were O'Reilly.

So it's not out of the question that he has a bit of a martyr-attitude. I wouldn't be suprised, it certainly looked that way that he would rather feel bad and live in misery than winning.
I am sure it wasn't the 108 PDO in 2013-14 that was the reason for the fall-off.

They were a shitty team that rode a wave of amazing luck for one season.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,087
7,204
Czech Republic
I sincerely doubt he preferred feeling bad and losing versus feeling good and winning. Unfortunately, the teams he was on either by accident or by design weren't going to win regardless of how well he played. That's where you start seeing the line between being a leader and not. By all accounts ROR was well liked in the room, but you can't have a guy making the money he was and in the prominent role he was... not having the attitude that every game is winnable. On the ice and off the ice. Especially for the young guys.


Maybe, just maybe, he should've been happy to be making millions of dollars playing a game he loves... and not had an attitude at all? Who gives a **** about Justin Falk.
Are we really going there? Seriously?
 

Dreakon13

Registered User
Jun 28, 2010
4,276
1,305
Mighty Taco, NY
Are we really going there? Seriously?
So, you're saying its better that he sulk because Justin Falk is getting top 6 NHL minutes... versus coming to the rink with a good attitude day in and day out because he loves hockey, makes a good living, and wants to win?

I think I'd rather have the latter, in that hypothetical scenario sabrebuild presented... wouldn't you? I'm not saying anything mind blowing there.
 
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