The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

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sabrebuild

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it's possible for the respective departures of multiple players to each have impacts on the team

I wouldn't say ROR was a culture drag, but again, ask your guy who works for the sabres what management thought of him

I just don’t see any evidence that anything has impacted team play or success due to culture change.

I thought they had improved with Dahlin, Sheary and the young guys expected to be up a lot, Mitts, Guhle/Pilut. Skinner replaces RoR sort of. I hope the futures help them create more depth and cheap elc’s whenever the eventually hit a tipping point of team talent.
 

sabrebuild

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We had Kane-ROR, Eichel-Reinhart and finished 1st...for the right to draft Dahlin...

The easy answer is you forgot to add three other cheap pieces of depth that the previous iterations didn’t have.

Sheary Eichel Reinhart

Skinner RoR Mitts

You could have loaded up two separate lines with 5/6 bonafide top 6 talents, depending on Mitts as a rookie.

You have Dahlin, doing Dahlin things.

And your bottom 6 without free agent moves can still look like,

Nylander Erod Okposo
Girgs Larson Pominville/Elie

If Thompson or one of the futures hits, this trade can be worth it long term. But this year, speculation without numbers, I bet O’Reilly and prospect/UFA will be worth three more wins this year than the benefit of Berglund/Sobotka. For now I put Thompson in the futures category, because he has yet to be above replacement level.

It would be truly destiny if we could just miss the playoffs and then win Kaapo in the lottery.
 

CatsforReinhart

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I just don’t see any evidence that anything has impacted team play or success due to culture change.

I thought they had improved with Dahlin, Sheary and the young guys expected to be up a lot, Mitts, Guhle/Pilut. Skinner replaces RoR sort of. I hope the futures help them create more depth and cheap elc’s whenever the eventually hit a tipping point of team talent.
Quotes from the team talking about last year losing really got them down and this year the have lost and come to the rink with an upbeat attitude.

Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I can't believe the people in denial. Either you don't watch the interviews or its tough to put 2 and 2 together.
ROR said he lost his love of the game, Gionta anointed ROR as the next captain and instead we went captainless, this year the guys talk about a better locker room and feeling more positive.

Sabres fan - I don't think it was ROR probably some other stuff.
 

OkimLom

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We had Kane-ROR, Eichel-Reinhart and finished 1st...for the right to draft Dahlin...

And they were the drivers of our offense...The problem then, and it continues today, is the lack of quality support players.
 

OkimLom

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Quotes from the team talking about last year losing really got them down and this year the have lost and come to the rink with an upbeat attitude.

Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I can't believe the people in denial. Either you don't watch the interviews or its tough to put 2 and 2 together.
ROR said he lost his love of the game, Gionta anointed ROR as the next captain and instead we went captainless, this year the guys talk about a better locker room and feeling more positive.

Sabres fan - I don't think it was ROR probably some other stuff.

This same attitude was around at the beginning of the season last year...just a reminder.
 
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Snippit

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At the end of the day I would hope every Sabre fan is hoping Stl ends up with the 11th pick this year and not that ror does great to prove a point.

And honestly with ror still here Reinhart and Jack would not progress like they have. It was a move that had to be done. Try to belittle the success all you want but all I know is that a post RoR Sabre team is above .500 and it isnt game 2. Sorry, that is all that has to be said.

This post is laughable in light of the shit show I just witnessed.
 

sabrebuild

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Quotes from the team talking about last year losing really got them down and this year the have lost and come to the rink with an upbeat attitude.

Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I can't believe the people in denial. Either you don't watch the interviews or its tough to put 2 and 2 together.
ROR said he lost his love of the game, Gionta anointed ROR as the next captain and instead we went captainless, this year the guys talk about a better locker room and feeling more positive.

Sabres fan - I don't think it was ROR probably some other stuff.

Quite the rant there fella, you sure have made me see how irrational I have been...
 
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enthusiast

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I just don’t see any evidence that anything has impacted team play or success due to culture change.

sure. we won't ever get hard evidence in that regard, because professionals rightly don't talk about that sort of thing to the media

but clearly one can accept that there are things we can't hear about the locker room that affects tea dynamics. I don't really expend effort talking about it here though because obviously unless you've got an in, you've got nothing to say. If you do, you've likely no way of proving it.
 

sabrebuild

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sure. we won't ever get hard evidence in that regard, because professionals rightly don't talk about that sort of thing to the media

but clearly one can accept that there are things we can't hear about the locker room that affects tea dynamics. I don't really expend effort talking about it here though because obviously unless you've got an in, you've got nothing to say. If you do, you've likely no way of proving it.

Agreed.

I’ll rephrase my comment to say nothing has happened to indicate the change was beneficial even if we assume inside info would say it actually happened.
 

OkimLom

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Quotes from the team talking about last year losing really got them down and this year the have lost and come to the rink with an upbeat attitude.

Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I can't believe the people in denial. Either you don't watch the interviews or its tough to put 2 and 2 together.
ROR said he lost his love of the game, Gionta anointed ROR as the next captain and instead we went captainless, this year the guys talk about a better locker room and feeling more positive.

Sabres fan - I don't think it was ROR probably some other stuff.

Bolded: When did he do that?

As for everything else; EVERY new season the players come in with a sense of optimism. It's an opportunity to start clean. We saw this last year as well. We didn't see the cracks forming of the sad locker room until mid November when they really hit rock bottom when they went scoreless for 3 games straight. Buffalo players right now saying it's a different attitude means nothing to me right now. If they still perform like they have been, and still are upbeat, then I can start to believe the cultured has changed/improved.
 

Jim Bob

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Feb 27, 2002
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Bolded: When did he do that?

As for everything else; EVERY new season the players come in with a sense of optimism. It's an opportunity to start clean. We saw this last year as well. We didn't see the cracks forming of the sad locker room until mid November when they really hit rock bottom when they went scoreless for 3 games straight. Buffalo players right now saying it's a different attitude means nothing to me right now. If they still perform like they have been, and still are upbeat, then I can start to believe the cultured has changed/improved.

Just being positive isn't the culture shift they need.

The fact that they had a bad practice last week and it bled into a bad game against Colorado is the type of thing that needs to be a thing of the past if the culture is indeed shifting to a better one.

Working hard every drill in every practice and every shift in every game is the culture change that needs to happen.

It still seems like that type of culture has yet to take hold.

And to quote Herb Brooks:

 

OkimLom

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Just being positive isn't the culture shift they need.

The fact that they had a bad practice last week and it bled into a bad game against Colorado is the type of thing that needs to be a thing of the past if the culture is indeed shifting to a better one.

Working hard every drill in every practice and every shift in every game is the culture change that needs to happen.

It still seems like that type of culture has yet to take hold.

And to quote Herb Brooks:



I was just talking about the attitude of the players, which seems to be a focal point from those that supported the move of trading ROR away. ROR was not good for the culture of the room because he was "depressing" is the general idea behind those that thought moving ROR would be an improvement in the room.

As for the rest of what you said, that would mean a culture change would have to happen in the coaching department, and not changing players...Surely that can't be right. :sarcasm:

I agree with you by the way.
 

Aladyyn

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I would be depressed too if I was bad at my job and holding talented and hard working people back because of my incompetence.
 

Jim Bob

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I was just talking about the attitude of the players, which seems to be a focal point from those that supported the move of trading ROR away. ROR was not good for the culture of the room because he was "depressing" is the general idea behind those that thought moving ROR would be an improvement in the room.

As for the rest of what you said, that would mean a culture change would have to happen in the coaching department, and not changing players...Surely that can't be right. :sarcasm:

I agree with you by the way.

I think the grit to work hard in practice after winning three straight and not resting on your laurels or thinking that you are too good to continue to work hard is as much, if not more, on the players than the coaches.

I believe that at the pro level in today's day and age, consistent effort is more on the players. Systems, adjustments, and player usage are in the domain of the coaches.

Overall, it seems like the Sabres as an organization don't have a clue how to build a winning organization. And they seemed surprised when the next new thing that they try doesn't work.
 

OkimLom

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I think the grit to work hard in practice after winning three straight and not resting on your laurels or thinking that you are too good to continue to work hard is as much, if not more, on the players than the coaches.

I believe that at the pro level in today's day and age, consistent effort is more on the players. Systems, adjustments, and player usage are in the domain of the coaches.

Overall, it seems like the Sabres as an organization don't have a clue how to build a winning organization. And they seemed surprised when the next new thing that they try doesn't work.

I actually haven't had an issue with the effort from the team as a whole. I think for the most part the players are working hard. Of course there are outliers (our captain shouldn't be one, but he is). My issue with the team is they are being coached with a very passive mindset. The coach sticks with what doesn't work far too often, and when he does make a change, he QUICKLY goes back to the old habits of his coaching/line decisions when it doesn't provide immediate results.

I think Terry is trying to re-invent the wheel far too often. Instead of learning from what other teams have done that have been proven to work over and over again, he relies on bucking the trend and doing things differently without ANY evidence the new ideas could POSSIBLY work. Pair that with his love for the old days of players, and you get what we see today.

I do agree with the idea about consistent effort is on the players. It's part of a player's personality and drive into them though. It can NOT be taught at the professional level. That's on management to find the players that have that in them. We seem to have a history of not finding THOSE type of players.
 

Jim Bob

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I actually haven't had an issue with the effort from the team as a whole. I think for the most part the players are working hard. Of course there are outliers (our captain shouldn't be one, but he is). My issue with the team is they are being coached with a very passive mindset. The coach sticks with what doesn't work far too often, and when he does make a change, he QUICKLY goes back to the old habits of his coaching/line decisions when it doesn't provide immediate results.

I think Terry is trying to re-invent the wheel far too often. Instead of learning from what other teams have done that have been proven to work over and over again, he relies on bucking the trend and doing things differently without ANY evidence the new ideas could POSSIBLY work. Pair that with his love for the old days of players, and you get what we see today.

I do agree with the idea about consistent effort is on the players. It's part of a player's personality and drive into them though. It can NOT be taught at the professional level. That's on management to find the players that have that in them. We seem to have a history of not finding THOSE type of players.

I'm going off of Okposo's comments after the loss to the Avs where he said they had a sloppy practice the day before and it bled into the game.

I'm also going off of Connor Sheary saying in the first intermission of the Bruins game that they weren't prepared for the Bruins to come at them so hard after they were blown out the previous day.

These are the comments that have me worried about the "culture" in the room despite Lehner, Kane, and ROR getting moved and people saying that they were the issue in the room.
 
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OkimLom

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I'm going off of Okposo's comments after the loss to the Avs where he said they had a sloppy practice the day before and it bled into the game.

I'm also going off of Connor Sheary saying in the first intermission of the Bruins game that they weren't prepared for the Bruins to come at them so hard after they were blown out the previous day.

There are the comments that have me worried about the "culture" in the room despite Lehner, Kane, and ROR getting moved and people saying that they were the issue in the room.

I'm in agreement with you on all this.
 

sabrebuild

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I'm going off of Okposo's comments after the loss to the Avs where he said they had a sloppy practice the day before and it bled into the game.

I'm also going off of Connor Sheary saying in the first intermission of the Bruins game that they weren't prepared for the Bruins to come at them so hard after they were blown out the previous day.

There are the comments that have me worried about the "culture" in the room despite Lehner, Kane, and ROR getting moved and people saying that they were the issue in the room.

Let’s be honest. Dahlin is unknown at this point, but none of our leaders are the alpha go thru a wall type to win.

Eichel would rather throw a tantrum and smash a stick, than skate his balls off the whole game and use his speed to actually make shit happen. The next time he drives thru traffic will be the first time.

Reinhart is passive when playing with Eichel and defers too much in general.

Risto, I got no respect for you.

We didn’t get a Toews, Crosby or even Ovechkin.

But all that is ok, because you can still push thru that.

Unless you cater to useless vets, don’t upgrade your team talent and hire moron coaches, who are themselves unsure and limited in their intensity.

Hockey is an intense game that requires savage desire to push and push until the other team breaks. We don’t have anyone who has that in their heart, from top to bottom. Management/ownership may not have liked being called out, but due to hurt feelings they shipped out their second most talented player who actually fought for every inch of the ice, to help the “culture”. What a joke.
 
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Jim Bob

RIP RJ
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I'm in agreement with you on all this.

At this point, the best case scenario is if Kane, Lehner, and ROR were only part of the problem in the locker room and Botterill can correctly identify who else in the room needs to go and he continues to upgrade the room.

The worst case scenario is if Botterill incorrectly identified any of those three as issues and he doesn't know what to do next with regards to cleaning up the room.

At this point, my biggest concern is that they seem to have made the statement that they want people who are happy while losing around here.

I don't believe that is the right message to send.
 

Beerz

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Jun 28, 2011
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Let’s be honest. Dahlin is unknown at this point, but none of our leaders are the alpha go thru a wall type to win.

Eichel would rather throw a tantrum and smash a stick, than skate his balls off the whole game and use his speed to actually make **** happen. The next time he drives thru traffic will be the first time.

Reinhart is passive when playing with Eichel and defers too much in general.

Risto, I got no respect for you.

We didn’t get a Toews, Crosby or even Ovechkin.

But all that is ok, because you can still push thru that.

Unless you cater to useless vets, don’t upgrade your team talent and hire moron coaches, who are themselves unsure and limited in their intensity.

Hockey is an intense game that requires savage desire to push and push until the other team breaks. We don’t have anyone who has that in their heart, from top to bottom. Management/ownership may not have liked being called out, but due to hurt feelings they shipped out their second most talented player who actually fought for every inch of the ice, to help the “culture”. What a joke.


We have Girgensons but he has nowhere near the talent or clout for it to make a lick of difference
 

HaNotsri

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Dec 29, 2013
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Let’s be honest. Dahlin is unknown at this point, but none of our leaders are the alpha go thru a wall type to win.

Eichel would rather throw a tantrum and smash a stick, than skate his balls off the whole game and use his speed to actually make **** happen. The next time he drives thru traffic will be the first time.

Reinhart is passive when playing with Eichel and defers too much in general.

Risto, I got no respect for you.

We didn’t get a Toews, Crosby or even Ovechkin.

But all that is ok, because you can still push thru that.

Unless you cater to useless vets, don’t upgrade your team talent and hire moron coaches, who are themselves unsure and limited in their intensity.

Hockey is an intense game that requires savage desire to push and push until the other team breaks. We don’t have anyone who has that in their heart, from top to bottom. Management/ownership may not have liked being called out, but due to hurt feelings they shipped out their second most talented player who actually fought for every inch of the ice, to help the “culture”. What a joke.
We have Pilut who was a role model and captain in U20 and wore an A last season in the SHL,
Then you have Davidsson who is playing on the most feared checking line in the SHL as well as Asplund who can provide a lot of intensity.
I don’t know much about the NA prospects, but when the swedes make the team they will light a fire under the butts of our star players. We have pretty much picked every good character/checking line Swede except the other Davidsson and Jobsson-Fjällby.

The ROR trade is still a joke though. Taking on huge cap dumps (Berglund is almost Okposo level) without a really good return.
 
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