The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

[sabrebuild]

No, no one is doing that. People are blaming ROR for bad culture as part of the failure to win.

I find it interesting that there is literally a quote from the coach Housley about the positive culture change and people still deny it is not because of ROR.

The only other thing I can assume is you feel a good locker room culture is not relevant to winning.

Or that it’s just typical coach media speak.

 

[sabrebuild]

Yeah, i don't even want to sound like the stereotypical buffalo fan, but the wins we've had have been fun but there is nothing that shows we've turned a corner. Not yet, anyways.

Agreed, super happy there have been some fun games in October. Pretty premature to say they have improved yet. Just like it’s too early to say they are the same disaster they have been for the last 3 years.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

You missed the point, which is an excelent player being driven out of town for a fraction of his value over a ridiculous narative/character assassination (which is exactly what happened with ROR).

Fraction of the price in your opinion, not in mine.

What a hot take. Impressive.

He's been the most valuable player on the team through 5 games. They've blown 3 third period leads which turned into losses. In 5 games. The defense has been horrible. That is on ROR how?

Yeah we will see if its a hot take at the end kf the season. It seems all teams ROR is on a worse with him on the roster than without him. If the trend continues for the rest if the season I will laigh my ass off at all the hot takes taljing how its a crime for Botts to trade him for what he did...cause these were actually hot takes.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Fraction of the price in your opinion, not in mine.

Yeah we will see if its a hot take at the end kf the season. It seems all teams ROR is on a worse with him on the roster than without him. If the trend continues for the rest if the season I will laigh my ass off at all the hot takes taljing how its a crime for Botts to trade him for what he did...cause these were actually hot takes.

I'd say it's more of a hot take saying that a teams (currently) best player is the reason his team is 1-2-2. A team that is 3 horrible defensive plays (none by ROR) away from 4-1-0. It's a "hot take" in that it's an absolutely preposterous thing to say.

And it was a crime to trade him for what they did. Berglund and Sobotka are dime a dozen players that are overpaid, and Thompson is a decent B level prospect that might turn into a 40-50 point guy. The only way it works out is if the top 10 protected first rounder is a home run. Even then it is hindsight. Saying they didn't get enough is not a hot take.

 

[sabremike]

Fraction of the price in your opinion, not in mine.
.

Watch tonight's game. If you are in Vegas and can do a prop bet lay down money that our 3rd line ends up being the worst line for either team. That was our bounty for ROR.

 

[Weaves]

5 games. Skinner has created more chances for himself those 5 games than ROR did all season at even strength. I know you like to make your points with fancy analytic speak but your stats aside, watching the games gives a different impression of the teams ability to create time and space and therefore scoring chances when Jack is off the ice (as opposed to last year).

You are correct... but even the fancy stats indicate the same thing. RoR's main value on most WAR charts (above replacement players) was his faceoff and defensive prowess. And his primary offensive production was PP driven. Its not hard to argue he isn't a top tier offensive producer at even strength. Now, that could be a result of his lack of food speed or the horrid Sabres 5on5 offence in general (it's hard to be certain).. but we do know that Skinner is the stronger even strength player.

RoR is such a polarising player, he is certainly valueable, especially would be on a team like Buffalo right now, but i dont think he is an offensive catalyst be any means.

 

[jcbeze]

Addition by subtraction getting rid of ROR. Cancer wherever he goes

 

[Jim Bob]

Addition by subtraction getting rid of ROR. Cancer wherever he goes

Not when he plays for Team Seguin.

 

[Doohickie]

RoR is such a polarising player, he is certainly valueable, especially would be on a team like Buffalo right now, but i dont think he is an offensive catalyst be any means.

So how is he any different from Berglund, who doesn't generate offense but plays a low-event game?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'd say it's more of a hot take saying that a teams (currently) best player is the reason his team is 1-2-2. A team that is 3 horrible defensive plays (none by ROR) away from 4-1-0. It's a "hot take" in that it's an absolutely preposterous thing to say.

And it was a crime to trade him for what they did. Berglund and Sobotka are dime a dozen players that are overpaid, and Thompson is a decent B level prospect that might turn into a 40-50 point guy. The only way it works out is if the top 10 protected first rounder is a home run. Even then it is hindsight. Saying they didn't get enough is not a hot take.

The way it works for us is we get better after the rrade and St Louis don't. Which is what things are trending towards. The ROR nuthugging and overreactions were and are still hilarious. We are just fine without him, hes literally not a difference maker and never will be. Thompson or the 1st may end up being such.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Delete

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

At the end of the day I would hope every Sabre fan is hoping Stl ends up with the 11th pick this year and not that ror does great to prove a point.

And honestly with ror still here Reinhart and Jack would not progress like they have. It was a move that had to be done. Try to belittle the success all you want but all I know is that a post RoR Sabre team is above .500 and it isnt game 2. Sorry, that is all that has to be said.

 

[sabremike]

The way it works for us is we get better after the rrade and St Louis don't. Which is what things are trending towards. The ROR nuthugging and overreactions were and are still hilarious. We are just fine without him, hes literally not a difference maker and never will be. Thompson or the 1st may end up being such.

How exactly did we get better? We won 3 games against horrible teams almost entirely by accident and dumb luck. Every time we faced a good team we got our teeth kicked in. I would like to see what would've happened in NHL 18 trade mode if you tried to aquire ROR for Berglund, Sobotka and Tage. That would be funny.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

How exactly did we get better? We won 3 games against horrible teams almost entirely by accident and dumb luck. Every time we faced a good team we got our teeth kicked in. I would like to see what would've happened in NHL 18 trade mode if you tried to aquire ROR for Berglund, Sobotka and Tage. That would be funny.

And the first and second round picks we got did you just throw them in the garbage? I love how people try to belittle something by omitting facts.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Or that it’s just typical coach media speak.

And the part where ROR says he lost the love for the game Housley saying the culture has changed for the positive. Winning after losing 6-1 and the players saying there is a different feeling in the locker room.

You are right. Nothing here to see.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Jack Eichel's teams have all been losers. Is this the part where I say "small sample size, I know," so that I can later try to wiggle my way out of that argument?



We also have better goaltending. I wonder if Phil would be talking about our "better culture" if Hutton and Ullmark don't almost singlehandedly win the NYR and ARZ games. I bet not.



You're so adorable with your petulant strawman.



Made the playoffs twice in first his first five seasons. Let's see if Jack can do that - if not, are you prepared to call Jack a loser? Of course you won't be, because his first three seasons don't count while ROR was making the room sad, right?



Don't be downtrodden that you have to deal with the hypocrisy of your own positions. You characterized ROR's three teams as "all losers" - btw, hilarious that the Blues are "losers" five games in, but I digress.

But if you want to characterize ROR, an individual player on teams who play 20 guys per game, as some born "loser" because his teams haven't "won," and he's played prominent roles on those teams, then you better be prepared to apply the same standard.



You have no desire to engage in a good-faith debate, as evidenced by your garbage, bumper-sticker arguments.

By the way, the last three Sabres teams didn't lose because of goaltending. They weren't good teams, top to bottom.

Its not ROR its the bumper stickers fault.

 

[OkimLom]

I’m thinking the culture change can be more attributed towards an improvement in goaltending which is leading to more wins more so than ROR being traded away. It sure as hell isnt because of the Sabres playing better. Still not producing better, still giving up a load of shots, and still show their inability to string together consistent periods in which they were the better team.

The Buffalo Sabres are not a better team because of ROR being off it, it’s because they have Lehner gone. The team in front of our goaltenders are still the same bad team.

 

[enthusiast]

it's possible for the respective departures of multiple players to each have impacts on the team

I wouldn't say ROR was a culture drag, but again, ask your guy who works for the sabres what management thought of him

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

You are correct... but even the fancy stats indicate the same thing. RoR's main value on most WAR charts (above replacement players) was his faceoff and defensive prowess. And his primary offensive production was PP driven. Its not hard to argue he isn't a top tier offensive producer at even strength. Now, that could be a result of his lack of food speed or the horrid Sabres 5on5 offence in general (it's hard to be certain).. but we do know that Skinner is the stronger even strength player.

RoR is such a polarising player, he is certainly valueable, especially would be on a team like Buffalo right now, but i dont think he is an offensive catalyst be any means.

O'Reilly also does very well in terms of driving offensive volume, it's just slightly worse than his shot suppression numbers. He also ranks highly in terms of creating shots through passing. His one issue offensively, especially when it comes to stats, is that he should shoot more.

As for the Skinner comparison, they're equally effective ES players. Skinner is better at driving offense and individual production, while O'Reilly has two-way play and a skillset that scales with talent. I've said this before, but the biggest impact from the Skinner deal is that Eichel finally has competition for offensive minutes.

In the past, coaches were so enamored with O'Reilly's defense that they overlooked his ability to drive play on a teams that were very bad at it, and even though he helped weather Eichel injuries for multiple staffs. Comparatively, Phil quickly realized Skinner had to be sheltered, and is currently playing him over Eichel in the offensive zone. For the first time in a long time, both of the Sabres' best drivers of play are set up to succeed offensively, and suddenly Buffalo is a middle-third xG team.

 

[sabremike]

And the first and second round picks we got did you just throw them in the garbage? I love how people try to belittle something by omitting facts.

What are the odds that the picks end up being anywhere near as good as ROR, who as a player is in at least the top 15-20 % of all players in the league. We got worked. Bad.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

So many cringe worthy takes by fans actually buying the narrative that ROR is a loser and a cancer and every team he touches turns to shit because he's just that bad of a guy and it's all his fault if his team is bad.

 

[OkimLom]

What could’ve been Skinner-ROR
And Eichel-Reinhart...

 

[Royal Thunder]

Wow some of you folks really are obsessed with ROR. He's not that good!

#betterwithouthim

 

[ZZamboni]

It would be nice if we could have logical convos about the trade, and the performance and projections of all the pieces involved. Instead we get clown takes and immature snipes at players and each other.

As a mod so clearly pointed out a few days ago, if you don’t like to read about the trade, ROR and all the pieces involved, stay out of the thread. You can’t have a mature logical discussion. It obviously infuriates you so much that it makes you have poor poor judgement.

 

[Djp]

What could’ve been Skinner-ROR
And Eichel-Reinhart...

We had Kane-ROR, Eichel-Reinhart and finished 1st...for the right to draft Dahlin...