The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

[enthusiast]

Probably an apt comparison since there were a ton of other changes that coincided and would make it rather silly to attribute the team's improvement to addition by subtraction from getting rid of Satan.

Aside from the contemporary players explicitly citing it, certainly

 

[Thorton02]

Funny how consistently ****ty goaltending impacts a team's psyche.

Imagine trying to paint a house when you can't trust the guy holding the ladder.

 

[enthusiast]

The thing that is absolutely killing us right now is having no credible #2 center so I just don't buy that line of thinking at all.

Removal of a player and replacement of a player can and should be seperate processes. I guess they just thought Mitts was readier than he is

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

One could again point out that paying two players the salary instead of one is cap savings but one surmises by this point nothing can be said to some people.

I’d make this trade 100 out of 100 times. Largely because exactly what I said would happen to both teams has happened immediately.

What a surprise.

Your whole point was that the Sabres needed to use the assets from O’Reilly to acquire good players.

In reality, the Sabres got Skinner for pocket lint and the most impactful part of their big trade is a healthy scratch.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Funny how consistently ****ty goaltending impacts a team's psyche.

For sure. At the beginning of the year, I would've said goaltending was the Blues only significant problem. Lately, it's been everything, though. The team defense has become a mess.

OTOH, Allen has been their starter for ~4 years, and never once has he been good, but the team continued to perform decently despite him. Seems like there's probably a little more to the wheels falling off than just the goaltending being bad.

 

[sabrebuild]

The team can still benefit even if on-ice talent drops. Subtraction of Satan was an extreme example.

I actually agree with that, to a degree.

Two parts, first Satan on ice, was a lazy, soft player, who worked when it suited him and his teammates all knew it. He had zero interest in paying the price to win, particularly on a talent limited roster for most of his time here.

Second, his actual performance took a huge drop his last year in Buffalo, almost 20 points. That’s what quitting on a team looks like.

Now, there were a bunch of separate factors that added to the list after that, small market new ownership, a full year lockout, a new set of rules that hugely benefited a team otherwise not built to win in the pre-lockout nhl and a 4th overall pick expected to fill Satan’s role.

And of course who knows whether Satan being gone was a catalyst to them improving or if it was an influx of young talent and the rule changes, both things that had nothing to do with Satan since they got zero return for him as a ufa. Is that team different if you replace streaky non physical goal scorer Kotalik with a much more skilled ditto ditto ditto Satan? Maybe, but tough to believe.

I tend to think adding Gaustad, Grier, Vanek, Roy, Pominville and Numminen, was a seismic influx in talent.

I also tend to think Satan leaving didn’t help Campbell become a monster.

But I agree it didn’t hurt them much to move a 31 year old winger. I also can’t remember if they would have fit under the cap that year under the new limit??

 

[sabrebuild]

For sure. At the beginning of the year, I would've said goaltending was the Blues only significant problem. Lately, it's been everything, though. The team defense has become a mess.

OTOH, Allen has been their starter for ~4 years, and never once has he been good, but the team continued to perform decently despite him. Seems like there's probably a little more to the wheels falling off than just the goaltending being bad.

Tarasenko and Steen have played like poo all year too.

I loved Tarasenko as a prospect and his first few years. I didn’t watch them playing last year much, but he didn’t have a great year. This year??? Oof

 

[enthusiast]

Miro stuff

Yeah, by no means was it even the primary factor in the shift (that's the rule changes, as I'm sure many feel). But iirc the players that pushed for him off the team did so because they felt his attitude didn't fit the culture. Clearly ROR was no lazy miro, but the principle can hold even out of the extreme. Trading ROR isn't the reason why the team is better, full stop, but that doesn't mean there weren't reasons to trade him that aren't apparent to people outside the room.

 

[sabrebuild]

Yeah, by no means was it even the primary factor in the shift (that's the rule changes, as I'm sure many feel). But iirc the players that pushed for him off the team did so because they felt his attitude didn't fit the culture. Clearly ROR was no lazy miro, but the principle can hold even out of the extreme. Trading ROR isn't the reason why the team is better, full stop, but that doesn't mean there weren't reasons to trade him that aren't apparent to people outside the room.

Agreed, at the extreme level teams can feel the need to push someone out. My experience is hockey players are not subtle, eg track suits being thrown in the shower.

But I totally agree, it’s possible that the members of the locker room that are still here hated O’Reilly’s guts and it’s more fun to be a team, even a last place team without him.

I just hope I hear those stories at some point. I want those inside sources you are talking about. More information please!!!

 

[darcyRegier]

Is ROR Moe Greene? The bad gambler influence who lost his love for the Corleones and suffered because of it?

 

[Gabrielor]

Is ROR Moe Greene? The bad gambler influence who lost his love for the Corleones and suffered because of it?

Who's our Fredo?

 

[darcyRegier]

Who's our Fredo?

Chad Johnson maybe?

 

[Thorton02]

Who's our Fredo?

Matt Moulson. "I can handle things, I'm smart!"

 

[Chainshot]

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Been outta the Sabres loop for awhile, so.. what was the general consensus at the time of the trade? No flame wars please, just wondering if people were generally pleased, thought we got fleeced, or somewhere in the middle- obviously the player return looks kind of weak, now, but I'm also in the camp of "trading ROR had to happen."

 

[ZZamboni]

Been outta the Sabres loop for awhile, so.. what was the general consensus at the time of the trade? No flame wars please, just wondering if people were generally pleased, thought we got fleeced, or somewhere in the middle- obviously the player return looks kind of weak, now, but I'm also in the camp of "trading ROR had to happen."

Confirmed with Link: - Ryan O'Reilly traded to STL for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, 2019 1st, 2021 2nd

Draw your own conclusions from this thread

 

[Gabrielor]

Man do I wish he was back.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Confirmed with Link: - Ryan O'Reilly traded to STL for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, 2019 1st, 2021 2nd

Draw your own conclusions from this thread

Hahaha good god that's rough- if nothing better was available I'm still ok with it, and even with the disappointing immediate results- obviously there are so many other factors, but hey, we're doing well, they're not. I'm cool with that.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Because now every single person whining about not even clearing any cap space has to find a new avenue to complain.

It is better, but now anyone saying this trade 'changed the culture!' doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Because one of the so called vet leaders literally quit on the team.

But that doesn’t change the fact that every player and every beat reporter who follow the team has said how much better the locker room is this year.

Paul Hamilton was just beaming about the difference before the game against the Bruins. He said it is absolutely unbelievable how different it is from last year.

You can even see it in the interviews after a game (even after a loss) and the way they play on the ice.
They don’t hang their heads on the bench and sulk if they get down by a goal. A post game interview isn’t all doom and gloom.

I don’t see how you can argue that just because Berglund was unhappy that means the culture hasn’t changed.
It seems clear as day to me that the culture around this team has done a complete 180 since last year.

And just so I am clear, I am not saying that it all stems from trading ROR.
I am just saying that the culture has definitely improved a great deal from previous seasons. I am sure there are many factors involved in the change.

 

[Dubi Doo]

But that doesn’t change the fact that every player and every beat reporter who follow the team has said how much better the locker room is this year.

Paul Hamilton was just beaming about the difference before the game against the Bruins. He said it is absolutely unbelievable how different it is from last year.

You can even see it in the interviews after a game (even after a loss) and the way they play on the ice.
They don’t hang their heads on the bench and sulk if they get down by a goal. A post game interview isn’t all doom and gloom.

I don’t see how you can argue that just because Berglund was unhappy that means the culture hasn’t changed.
It seems clear as day to me that the culture around this team has done a complete 180 since last year.

And just so I am clear, I am not saying that it all stems from trading ROR.
I am just saying that the culture has definitely improved a great deal from previous seasons. I am sure there are many factors involved in the change.

I'm not arguing the culture hasn't changed. It most certainly has, but that's not due to trading O'Reilly, imo. That's due to the influx of talent bringing more wins. A miserable year like this past season will bring a majority of the players morale down.

 

[enthusiast]

Hey, the return looks better with Berglund off the books

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Hey, the return looks better with Berglund off the books

Not really...he was supposed to take ROR’s place in the lineup, taking on the defensive responsibility (without necessarily needing to replace his offensive output). Now we don’t have a 3C, so this trade created a hole that needs to be filled.

Trade still looks bad imo

 

[enthusiast]

jokes aside, I'm unconvinced that Bergs was supposed to be the replacement

more so i think they overestimated their depth

 

[ZZamboni]

Not really...he was supposed to take ROR’s place in the lineup, taking on the defensive responsibility (without necessarily needing to replace his offensive output). Now we don’t have a 3C, so this trade created a hole that needs to be filled.

Trade still looks bad imo

Yep.
I knew when it happened. We would spend most or all season trying to recover from trading ROR away. And yes, I’m well aware our record is better. But it’s not because our 2C is better this year than last.