The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

[Sabresfansince1980]

Your big piece of evidence that O’Reilly was less invested last season was something that he stopped the season before.

Sure, O’Reilly had a down year, and maybe mindset colored it on the margins, but his performance fluctuations are pretty much perfectly connected to linemate quality, and playing a nonsensical role that has proven to crater team and player performance.

I'm not trying to overplay his comments, only that he should have known how they would be taken and become a distraction. You, OTOH, seem to be completely ignoring that he called himself out for not playing up to his own normal standards last season. It was indeed a thing, and he took responsibility for it.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I'm not trying to overplay his comments, only that he should have known how they would be taken and become a distraction. You, OTOH, seem to be completely ignoring that he called himself out for not playing up to his own normal standards last season. It was indeed a thing, and he took responsibility for it.

He played a role that we know tanks team and player performance, and his LWs were barely NHL players.

I’m just not surprised he looked inward publicly, rather than criticize the coach to the media the coach leaks to when he’s in CYA mode. What else is he gonna say after a down year other than “I need to be better?”

 

[dasaybz]

Worst thing for ROR's career was being traded to the Sabres. Had he gone to UFA he could have chosen a competitive team with stable management and slid into a cushy spot on the wing on a scoring line. Not had to be the top dog like he was in Buffalo and now is in St Louis. It's not the right role for him. Whoever his agent is didn't do him any favors.

His usage is way off. It always was here. He should have been used more like a Drury shutdown #2 center. The stupid Sabres tried to use him as a 1B center, and ran him into the ground. I think his unique skills actually make him a poor fit for most teams. He doesn't have the skills to be a true #1 center, but he's much too talented to be a defensive shut down center. Odd ...

 

[WpgBuffan]

Usually you hear of players a year or two out and you know its a good draft, next years draft is still waiting for that break-out top player. You have 3 players kinda vying for top but all of them could easily get jumped by the guy 10 spots down. No one is solidifying themselves for spots yet unlike this year with Hughes and Kakko who were already talked about before Dahlins draft.

The top players in the draft are being heralded as average NHL players, not game changers. If that's the top of the 2020 draft then expect it to get weaker as we get lower.

Have you not heard of Alex Lafreniere? He is the clear cut #1 guy for the 2020 draft. He will be a game changer.

 

[sabremike]

Have you not heard of Alex Lafreniere? He is the clear cut #1 guy for the 2020 draft. He will be a game changer.

Unfortunately pretty much the entire rest of that draft projects to be guys who are going to be in juniors or NCAA untill they are 20 and probably spend time in the AHL after that. The pick being pushed back a year would be incredibly bad and pretty much wreck our chance of salvaging anything of real value out of the trade. We just have to pray to God that the Blues finish 11th and don't win the lottery.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Have you not heard of Alex Lafreniere? He is the clear cut #1 guy for the 2020 draft. He will be a game changer.

The QMJHL as a league has always had the highest scoring, the competition is a little lower than the OHL. I have never put a lot of stock into the OMJHL since they dont develop the amount of NHL stars as a league like the OHL does and from memory alot early picks from there have become busts or average out to a normal NHL player rather than a game changer. Grigorenko put up 85 points in his rookie season in that league, then 54 in 33 games the next.

 

[dotcommunism]

The QMJHL as a league has always had the highest scoring, the competition is a little lower than the OHL. I have never put a lot of stock into the OMJHL since they dont develop the amount of NHL stars as a league like the OHL does and from memory alot early picks from there have become busts or average out to a normal NHL player rather than a game changer. Grigorenko put up 85 points in his rookie season in that league, then 54 in 33 games the next.

Lafrenière was 16 during his rookie season, and Grigorenko was 17. That makes a big difference. Another player who put up a similar season at 16 to Lafrenière, though, was MacKinnon, and I think most would agree he has turned out pretty well.

Edit: Also, somewhat amusingly, we're getting a little off-topic here. The quality of the next two drafts is not really O'Reilly specific at all, and can certainly be discussed in other threads.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Unfortunately pretty much the entire rest of that draft projects to be guys who are going to be in juniors or NCAA untill they are 20 and probably spend time in the AHL after that. The pick being pushed back a year would be incredibly bad and pretty much wreck our chance of salvaging anything of real value out of the trade. We just have to pray to God that the Blues finish 11th and don't win the lottery.

I totally disagree. Go check out the top ten of the 2020 draft. Plenty of really good players available in the top 15. Just because a player has to spend time in juniors or the NCAA doesn't mean anything. That's the case with almost anyone a team drafts. There's no player the Sabres could draft 11-15 in the 2019 draft who is going to play right away.

Take the top ten pick and shot at Lafreniere.

 

[Dubi Doo]

The thing that irks me a lot about this trade is the so called depth we acquired was/is a myth. Sobotka and Thompson are our 2 worst players, and Berglund is only a solid 4th liner; dime a dozen player. We created a blackhole at center for that. The fact that we will have another year of Sobotka under a clueless coach that will give him ice time is salt in the wound.

I get it...Botts is shooting for the long-term, but I cant help but feel that he did more harm than good with how badly he botched this trade.

Prior to the trade we had:
An elite offensive center.
An elite two-way center.
One of the best defensive prospects to come out of the draft in years.
Promising prospects who were pushing for roster spots.

That's a recipe to build a contender. I do believe we can still reach that title, but creating a massive question mark at perhaps the most important position in the sport was a ludicrous move.

 

[enthusiast]

I don't disagree on principle, but when it's rolling Beglund-Girgensons-Larsson is far more than a dime-a-dozen checking line, and Thompson was always going to be a project.

 

[enthusiast]

And, as it ever was, there's more to the trade than on-ice performance. It's just that we as public generally aren't privy to those additional reasons, legitimate or not.

 

[sabremike]

And, as it ever was, there's more to the trade than on-ice performance. It's just that we as public generally aren't privy to those additional reasons, legitimate or not.

But again: could it possibly have been more toxic than the Duchene situation in Colorado. And I'll point this out: if we had just got the picks and Tage as a throw in and not the two cap albatrosses the cap saving would've made the trade like a million times better. The more I think about getting virtually no cap relief at all was the absolute stupidest part of this whole trade.

 

[Ace]

One could again point out that paying two players the salary instead of one is cap savings but one surmises by this point nothing can be said to some people.

I’d make this trade 100 out of 100 times. Largely because exactly what I said would happen to both teams has happened immediately.

What a surprise.

 

[Fezzy126]

So, I've tried to avoid this thread at all costs, but I think it's the most appropriate place to drop this:

 

[enthusiast]

But again: could it possibly have been more toxic than the Duchene situation in Colorado. And I'll point this out: if we had just got the picks and Tage as a throw in and not the two cap albatrosses the cap saving would've made the trade like a million times better. The more I think about getting virtually no cap relief at all was the absolute stupidest part of this whole trade.

Yeah, I don't like the return, but imo it's overstatement to call it assorted garbage

 

[tsujimoto74]

But again: could it possibly have been more toxic than the Duchene situation in Colorado. And I'll point this out: if we had just got the picks and Tage as a throw in and not the two cap albatrosses the cap saving would've made the trade like a million times better. The more I think about getting virtually no cap relief at all was the absolute stupidest part of this whole trade.

Berglund I don't mind, but Sobotka..yeesh. We do get cap savings from this trade, though, just not in year 1.

 

[flashsabre]

So Dreger tonight said that people he has talked to inside the Blues organization think there is a real mental fragility with the Blues team this year. Hmmmmmm

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

7.5 mil x 5 yrs = 37.5 mil

vs

3.85 mil x 4 yrs = 15.4 mil
+
3.5 mil x 2 yrs = 7 mil

That's 7.35 mil for two years, and 3.85 mil for two years after that...vs 7.5 mil for 5 years. Add in Thompson's 925k cap hit if you want. It's a cap savings no matter what way you look at it. It's not worth it on the ice right now, but it saves cap room.

 

[Chainshot]

So Dreger tonight said that people he has talked to inside the Blues organization think there is a real mental fragility with the Blues team this year. Hmmmmmm

Funny how consistently shitty goaltending impacts a team's psyche.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Funny how consistently ****ty goaltending impacts a team's psyche.

True.

 

[sabrebuild]

When cap savings on a good player, 3 years from now is what we are hanging our hat on...

I can’t wait to see how much a 2C that’s good for 60 points a year gets as a ufa in 3 years.

In a league where Willie Nylander gets 7 for all rfa years, as a 63 point winger, the idea that 7.5 for a 2C is a problem that we need to protect ourselves from is out of touch.

Let’s just stay in reality and say the trade was because the owner was pissed and not because it benefited the team. That’s ok too.

 

[sabremike]

When cap savings on a good player, 3 years from now is what we are hanging our hat on...

I can’t wait to see how much a 2C that’s good for 60 points a year gets as a ufa in 3 years.

In a league where Willie Nylander gets 7 for all rfa years, as a 63 point winger, the idea that 7.5 for a 2C is a problem that we need to protect ourselves from is out of touch.

Let’s just stay in reality and say the trade was because the owner was pissed and not because it benefited the team. That’s ok too.

That last part is terrifying if true because it says our owner is willing to make a foolish and irrational decision based on emotion. That is VERY bad.

 

[enthusiast]

Let’s just stay in reality and say the trade was because the owner was pissed and not because it benefited the team.

The team can still benefit even if on-ice talent drops. Subtraction of Satan was an extreme example.

 

[sabremike]

The team can still benefit even if on-ice talent drops. Subtraction of Satan was an extreme example.

The thing that is absolutely killing us right now is having no credible #2 center so I just don't buy that line of thinking at all.

 

[dotcommunism]

The team can still benefit even if on-ice talent drops. Subtraction of Satan was an extreme example.

Probably an apt comparison since there were a ton of other changes that coincided and would make it rather silly to attribute the team's improvement to addition by subtraction from getting rid of Satan.