Player Discussion "The Real Deal" James Neal

[YakDavid]

Is Chaisson any better then Neal 5v5?

 

[replacement]

Didn't realize he was playing on a broken toe before. I think with a full recovery, he'll take his spot on the top line back. He has a shot mentality, plays a direct game, one of very few players on the team like that.

 

[Oilhawks]

Didn't realize he was playing on a broken toe before. I think with a full recovery, he'll take his spot on the top line back. He has a shot mentality, plays a direct game, one of very few players on the team like that.

I think it has a lot to do with his decline after a hot start. Seems to coincide with more tentative play and slower skating (he’s not a burner for sure but seemed faster before).

 

[Tyrolean]

LITR him to keep the 3rd rounder. Oilers have precious little except the 1st round pick. Tell him to do it for the team.

 

[CupofOil]

Didn't realize he was playing on a broken toe before. I think with a full recovery, he'll take his spot on the top line back. He has a shot mentality, plays a direct game, one of very few players on the team like that.

I guess he could take Kassian's spot if Kassian starts to falter but make no mistake, he's not a top 6 forward at even strength even when healthy, hasn't been for years.

However, I don't think he's a fit in the bottom 6 so in a way, I prefer him to Kassian in the top 6 because Kassian has the versatility to play well in a bottom 6 role because he can grind and wear down opponents whereas Neal has zero possession skills.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

LITR him to keep the 3rd rounder. Oilers have precious little except the 1st round pick. Tell him to do it for the team.

This is really dumb

 

[CupofOil]

This is really dumb

It would be dumb to tell him to sit out even if healthy just so the team can keep the pick but I'd prefer if he was out for the rest of the regular season so they can keep the 3rd, especially since they lost the 2nd rounder, then comes back if they make the playoffs.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

It would be dumb to tell him to sit out even if healthy just so the team can keep the pick but I'd prefer if he was out for the rest of the regular season so they can keep the 3rd, especially since they lost the 2nd rounder, then comes back if they make the playoffs.

I get that, but he also makes the team better and they want to win, so get him back in the lineup to win.

 

[CupofOil]

I get that, but he also makes the team better and they want to win, so get him back in the lineup to win.

Eh, I don't think they need him to make the playoffs. The PP is #1 with or without him and he doesn't really move the needle at even strength, they have wingers to play with Connor now. I'd prefer to get the 3rd and have him come back for the playoffs. Of course if he's 100% healthy, he should play.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Eh, I don't think they need him to make the playoffs. The PP is #1 with or without him and he doesn't really move the needle at even strength, they have wingers to play with Connor now. I'd prefer to get the 3rd and have him come back for the playoffs. Of course if he's 100% healthy, he should play.

I think they do, I think he's better then Khaira and Chiasson, so if he pushes them out of the lineup, that makes the team better.

 

[Aerchon]

I think they do, I think he's better then Khaira and Chiasson, so if he pushes them out of the lineup, that makes the team better.

If the OOT scoreboard worked out different and the Oilers won their last two games maybe we could just give Neal extra time to heal and save a third...

It's coming down to the wire and it will be all hands on deck. As much as I would like that 3rd rounder this year Neal most likely will be more valuable on the team asap.

 

[replacement]

I guess he could take Kassian's spot if Kassian starts to falter but make no mistake, he's not a top 6 forward at even strength even when healthy, hasn't been for years.

However, I don't think he's a fit in the bottom 6 so in a way, I prefer him to Kassian in the top 6 because Kassian has the versatility to play well in a bottom 6 role because he can grind and wear down opponents whereas Neal has zero possession skills.

Don't agree at all. Even when he was racking up minuses early in the year, he was still a good forechecker, often turning pucks over. He has an elite stick, very quick hands, wins the puck, puts the puck to the net. The guy tracks rebounds like nobody else on our team. It's impressive to watch.

Neal has positive 5v5 Corsi, Fenwick, xGF numbers. By analytics, and by eye he is an effective player. He brings energy, he hits, he shoots when he can, he has elite hands around the net, he gets in on the forecheck.

But for some reason everybody is focusing on plus/minus and saying he's not a good possession player? Where is that coming from? I thought we'd moved on from plus/minus as a serious statistic.

 

[replacement]

I think it has a lot to do with his decline after a hot start. Seems to coincide with more tentative play and slower skating (he’s not a burner for sure but seemed faster before).

Definitely, I had no problems with his skating early in the year, and he wins battles in different ways, not just by being first at the puck.

 

[CupofOil]

Don't agree at all. Even when he was racking up minuses early in the year, he was still a good forechecker, often turning pucks over. He has an elite stick, very quick hands, wins the puck, puts the puck to the net. The guy tracks rebounds like nobody else on our team. It's impressive to watch.

Neal has positive 5v5 Corsi, Fenwick, xGF numbers. By analytics, and by eye he is an effective player. He brings energy, he hits, he shoots when he can, he has elite hands around the net, he gets in on the forecheck.

But for some reason everybody is focusing on plus/minus and saying he's not a good possession player? Where is that coming from? I thought we'd moved on from plus/minus as a serious statistic.

I honestly couldn't care less about +/-. I'm always of the belief that people put too much stock into it even though it can be useful if used in proper context.

With Neal I see a player who kills possession and is very choppy with the puck, there aren't many long cycling shifts in the offensive zone when he's on the ice. He is good at creating turnovers when he's engaged and I don't think he's a detriment necessarily, I just don't think he moves the needle much in a positive direction in a top 6 role. There's a reason why Holland pushed for not one but two top 6 wingers. They do miss his net front presence on the PP though.

 

[CupofOil]

I think they do, I think he's better then Khaira and Chiasson, so if he pushes them out of the lineup, that makes the team better.

I can't argue that, anybody would be an upgrade on Chiasson. Khaira still has value as a PKer so I don't see him pushed out of the lineup but yeah, it would be nice to see Chiasson out of the lineup.

I just don't think Neal being in or out of the lineup is going to determine their playoff fate but as Aerchon said, all hands on deck so if he returns before the end of the regular season, I'm not going to be upset about it.

 

[oobga]

Is Chaisson any better then Neal 5v5?

Worse in every way. Neal was actually putting up good possession numbers before he was hurt. Chaisson drags down everyone, McDavid and Drai included. Dude can't make plays and is lost in his own end.

 

[Oil Dood]

Worse in every way. Neal was actually putting up good possession numbers before he was hurt. Chaisson drags down everyone, McDavid and Drai included. Dude can't make plays and is lost in his own end.

Chiasson would be suited to 4th line RW IMO. That is not a knock on him it is just where I see him on the depth chart right now.

 

[Aerchon]

Don't agree at all. Even when he was racking up minuses early in the year, he was still a good forechecker, often turning pucks over. He has an elite stick, very quick hands, wins the puck, puts the puck to the net. The guy tracks rebounds like nobody else on our team. It's impressive to watch.

Neal has positive 5v5 Corsi, Fenwick, xGF numbers. By analytics, and by eye he is an effective player. He brings energy, he hits, he shoots when he can, he has elite hands around the net, he gets in on the forecheck.

But for some reason everybody is focusing on plus/minus and saying he's not a good possession player? Where is that coming from? I thought we'd moved on from plus/minus as a serious statistic.

I honestly couldn't care less about +/-. I'm always of the belief that people put too much stock into it even though it can be useful if used in proper context.

With Neal I see a player who kills possession and is very choppy with the puck, there aren't many long cycling shifts in the offensive zone when he's on the ice. He is good at creating turnovers when he's engaged and I don't think he's a detriment necessarily, I just don't think he moves the needle much in a positive direction in a top 6 role. There's a reason why Holland pushed for not one but two top 6 wingers. They do miss his net front presence on the PP though.

I am one of those rarer individuals that does value plus minus. Years of hockey pools and testimony that plus minus is relevant when used in context/eye test.

I would say plus minus is rarely far off the mark. A team full of roughly even players and one at -21 I would normally assume that play was not playing sound hockey. Without actually watching the player i would take it with a grain of salt but still use the stat for assessment.

I honestly think this is the first time I've watched a player first hand, with such a disproportionate large minus, and thought the stat was completely garbage.

I'm not even a Neal fan. I've traditionally never liked him. I disliked the trade because I didn't like taking on salary and losing a pick for a guy I figured would leech off his line mates and be a net negative to the team.

Neal has played well by my eye test. Far more good than bad and his negative plus minus stat is not an indicator of his 5v5 play. McDavid makes a couple bone headed plays and for all his speed doesn't back check more than the slow footed Neal.

Neals crazy shooting percentage is normalizing is why he currently appears less effective. He is usually In the right spots and good on the forecheck.

When things are going good I would really like to keep him scratched to keep that 3rd but it's super tight and I think he can help the team win.

 

[boatsNhossa]

He back.

 

[McJesusSaves97]

He back.

Hopefully we never see Chiasson on the PP again

 

[replacement]

Hopefully we never see Chiasson on the PP again

Since James Neal has been injured, and Chiasson has replaced him at net front, the Oilers PP% has actually gone up slightly. They're 30% in that span. They are historically good.

Chiasson does things on the PP that often don't get rewarded with points. Neal does too. The Oilers are insanely good with either of them in their roles there.

 

[PinSeeker]

I know he had an injury but that is now 9 games without a goal for Neal, and goals in 3 of last 25 games.

As I said at start of year, loved the trade no matter what, even if just a buy-out, but would be nice to see him pot a couple down the stretch here

 

[Kaniac]

Hopefully we never see Chiasson on the PP again

Good thing you're not the coach

 

[Paralyzer]

I know he had an injury but that is now 9 games without a goal for Neal, and goals in 3 of last 25 games.

As I said at start of year, loved the trade no matter what, even if just a buy-out, but would be nice to see him pot a couple down the stretch here

I would rather he doesn't score until the last game (Against Calgary) and stop at 20 Goals. That would be the perfect picture end to the Neal for Lucic trade. No 3rd round pick and Neal gets 20 Goals. That or we hope Lucic get's 4 more goals, and I'd rather the latter happened.

 

[McJesusSaves97]

Good thing you're not the coach

agree