Prospect Info: The Prospect Thread

[Satan]

Today I noticed Michael Prapavessis was playing for Cincinatti of the ECHL so I tweeted at Shapiro to see if Dallas retained him or not and the answer was no.


Peep the 2014 Draft

Honka can't crack our lineup

Pollock traded for Russell, barely scraping by as an AHLer.

We didn't sign Peters, Prapavessis, Moran, Haydon or Sanvido.

Peters and Haydon retired. Moran and Sanvido play university hockey in Ontario.

Prapavessis is in the ECHL

Karjalainen got 5 points 135 PIMs in Liiga this year.

Nyberg's ppg dropped this year in the SHL.

Click to read more...

 

[Mr Misty]

Jim Nill is a "scout"

 

[Satan]

Jim Nill is a "scout"

Was it Nill or McDonnell who said if two players were equal they'd go defense?


I just found a McDonnell quote that says this:

“If we feel there's two players (at different positions) that are even we'll lean toward the forward. … If we can add a little size up front, it would be beneficial.''

^ Context: This was after the 2013 Draft when he was still with Detroit.

Red Wings prefer decent-sized forward with 18th pick in draft, their highest selection since 1991

Which is hilarious because after the 2014 Draft, I remember it being the opposite way around.

 

[Kcb12345]

Just dreadful and disappointing. In Honka's defense, I think having Klingberg has hurt his development and chances of playing. He isn't getting PP time or really even near the offensive chances a player of his kind needs. You can't take an offensively focused and powerplay quarterback dman and turn him into a depth defensive defenseman. Unfortunately though, this is a role he is trying to take on even when he does play. Even Hitchcock said he wants him being way more active offensively but Honka just hasn't jumped up onto the play nearly as much and generally the forwards he's playing with aren't players who are gonna go finish off a play anytime soon. Sad too, because his offensive vision and talent is very evident and obvious when watching him play, and his shot is absolutely wicked but not used even near enough. Hope he can turn it up next year and work for and embrace a bigger role with Pateryn and Hamhuis possibly/probably being gone. Would be pretty amazing if by the end of next year we had a 2nd D-pairings of Heiskanen/Honka. Or Lindell/Honka even better. Lindell can help him sorta how he backs up Klingberg and enables him to jump up on the play more often

 

[Smelling Salt]

Jim Nill is a "scout"

He definitely hasn't shown yet that he is, has he? Supposedly his strength coming into the job hasn't come to fruition.

 

[jballa95]

Drafting anyone from the OJHL is absolutely ridiculous. Mcdonnell and Nill always had a glorified draft track record in Detroit due to finding some occasional gems in the later rounds, look at the team now. And we should all know by now that we build our teams through 5th round picks. 5th round pick Point looks like our best Goalie prospect, and 5th round pick Caamano impressed in training camp. All I gotta say is thank Christ we moved up to 3 and ended up with Heiskanen. If I were a scout the first thing I would look for is Hockey IQ then Speed/Skill then Size as a potential bonus. I'm not a fan of the Stars trend to take big/fast lumbering wingers (Nichushkin, Gurianov, Tufte) in the hopes that they turn out to be what Nash was when he was in his prime. Nichushkin was not a horrible pick, as he sort of dropped to us, but I think the teams that passed on him did not like his attitude (and look what ended up f***ing us). Gurianov was picked over the likes of Barzal (who was the highest ranked forward at the time our pick) and Brock Boeser. But if we did not pick Gurianov I bet we would have picked Evgeny Svechnikov (who "surprisingly" Detroit picked 19th, a big rangy winger who has not turned out the way they planned, how surprising..). Tufte was picked over Debrincat, although other than Debrincat no one after him has really shown excellence. Both Barzal and Debrincat were deemed to have high hockey IQ but were deemed to be on the smaller side. Size or physical strength does not matter in my opinion, you can also fix someones strength or endurance quite easily, you cant fix someones hockey IQ, both Benn and Klingberg were out of shape when they were drafted, and they are our best draft picks in the last decade and a bit. Hockey IQ and Speed/Skill are the game now, it's easy to critique looking back and showing where they could do better and I would have picked (this guy) who ended up turning into a superstar etc, but I do think there is a bit of a trend here.

 

[BfantZ]

Just dreadful and disappointing. In Honka's defense, I think having Klingberg has hurt his development and chances of playing. He isn't getting PP time or really even near the offensive chances a player of his kind needs. You can't take an offensively focused and powerplay quarterback dman and turn him into a depth defensive defenseman. Unfortunately though, this is a role he is trying to take on even when he does play. Even Hitchcock said he wants him being way more active offensively but Honka just hasn't jumped up onto the play nearly as much and generally the forwards he's playing with aren't players who are gonna go finish off a play anytime soon. Sad too, because his offensive vision and talent is very evident and obvious when watching him play, and his shot is absolutely wicked but not used even near enough. Hope he can turn it up next year and work for and embrace a bigger role with Pateryn and Hamhuis possibly/probably being gone. Would be pretty amazing if by the end of next year we had a 2nd D-pairings of Heiskanen/Honka. Or Lindell/Honka even better. Lindell can help him sorta how he backs up Klingberg and enables him to jump up on the play more often

we know honka has it in him . Last year he looked 10 times better when he was called up . I think the biggest thing is that hitch hasn’t showed any trust in him and he’s not playing very confident when he’s even in the lineup . Last year having pateryn in the lineup ahead of honka wasnt even a consideration . Hitch has brought out the best in some of the guys but has also brought out the worst in others . Honka , spezza , benn , Ritchie all look like something’s off .

 

[jballa95]

I had Casey Mittelstadt ranked third in my own personal draft rankings. Everyone laughed at him when he could not do a pull up, but then were silenced when he was the best player at the world juniors. What's he going to be like when he can do 100 pull ups? Elias Pettersson, an extremely skinny Swede is breaking records in the SHL. Eeli Tolvanen a smaller sized Finnish Winger is breaking records in the KHL. Miro Heiskanen, a smaller sized Finnish defenceman, is logging extreme minutes for his Finnish team and could have likely broke records if he stayed healthy all season. All have high hockey IQ, and can easily strengthen up in NHL caliber summer fitness programs. Hockey IQ then Skill/Speed then Size.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Maybe Nill's (or Gallardi) biggest flaw is drafting for one thing, and then hiring a coach for another thing. Do hockey IQ players fit Hitch's system? Which stresses safe plays? Winning teams have a long term system, and draft to fit that system. Or, maybe Nill drafted correctly but had the wrong coach (a second choice I think) in Ruff, wasting four seasons of development?
Team building is tough, and all the pieces have to come together. They aren't right now, but it is an ongoing battle. Sort of like golf, when my drives are good, sometimes my putting stinks, etc.

 

[BfantZ]

I had Casey Mittelstadt ranked third in my own personal draft rankings. Everyone laughed at him when he could not do a pull up, but then were silenced when he was the best player at the world juniors. What's he going to be like when he can do 100 pull ups? Elias Pettersson, an extremely skinny Swede is breaking records in the SHL. Eeli Tolvanen a smaller sized Finnish Winger is breaking records in the KHL. Miro Heiskanen, a smaller sized Finnish defenceman, is logging extreme minutes for his Finnish team and could have likely broke records if he stayed healthy all season. All have high hockey IQ, and can easily strengthen up in NHL caliber summer fitness programs. Hockey IQ then Skill/Speed then Size.

Your right , especially with the way the league is now . Back in the day it was a lot harder for small guys when half as much shit got called . I think now you have to draft as many guys who can score as you can . Hockey iq is what is what leads to a confident player who doesn’t make mistakes . You can always find big 3rd fourth liners in trades or later rounds .

 

[Kcb12345]

we know honka has it in him . Last year he looked 10 times better when he was called up . I think the biggest thing is that hitch hasn’t showed any trust in him and he’s not playing very confident when he’s even in the lineup . Last year having pateryn in the lineup ahead of honka wasnt even a consideration . Hitch has brought out the best in some of the guys but has also brought out the worst in others . Honka , spezza , benn , Ritchie all look like something’s off .

Especially Spezza. I think Hitchcock and the addition of Radulov have basically ended Spezza's career as a Star (no more first PP time and bigger minutes, they go to Radulov). I was watching Spezza's 15 goals from last season, and his speed and skill his all there and most of the goals were absolute beauties he created for himself, but this season he doesn't seem to be on the same page as anyone else, doesn't play a lot, plays 4th line minutes with players not offensively smart enough to play with him, and has somehow slowed down a ton despite it being less than a year from all those beautiful goals created by his speed, elite dangling, and incredible wrist shot. I don't get how a player can fall so quickly from his 3rd straight 60 point pace (50 points in 68 games though) season as a Star to a 25 point pace. Coaching and ice time has to be the #1 reason despite him appearing to slow down

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I like hockey IQ as much as the next guy, but do understand the size issue. For the most part, small guys get bounced off the puck too easily and don't hold up, a few talented exceptions like St. Louis do exist.

You substitute sheltering the small guy against big players for a guy who might or might not score a goal via hard work.

 

[Satan]

I like hockey IQ as much as the next guy, but do understand the size issue. For the most part, small guys get bounced off the puck too easily and don't hold up, a few talented exceptions like St. Louis do exist.

You substitute sheltering the small guy against big players for a guy who might or might not score a goal via hard work.

This opinion is so prehistoric.

 

[Mr Misty]

Miro Heightskanen

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Not really. I can't take time to go to all the stats, but a few of your 20-20 hindsight alternate picks (Debrincat for example) don't change the trend towards bigger teams. St Louis opened up the possibility that some GM's would be more likely to consider an ultra talented smaller guy. Not all.

Making draft picks in real time is always harder than looking back. That said, I wonder about the DG and Tufte picks, too. But that is because I read the prospect rankings and have no way of knowing (until later ,like everyone else) whether the off the board picks are for a very good reason.

Lastly, while we have categorized Nill as a bad drafter, when you read the overall draft stats, I bet its closer to average. I haven't looked lately. Is our prospect pool ranked mid or lower third right now? For a short while under Niewy, I think Hockey News got it close to top ten, but we never had many high end prospects, just a lot of them when he was ordered to do the sell offs.

 

[Starry Knight]

Debrincat was not an off the board pick there though. It was pretty clear to anyone who watched Debrincat in his draft year that he was exceptionally talented and was worthy to be picked where we were. Our scouting staff's fascination with size let a potential PPG NHLer fall to our rivals, which should not really be forgiven.

 

[Troy McClure]

Great draft work, Nill.

 

[eartotheground]

Great draft work, Nill.

He just likes them, “overripe” :|

 

[Troy McClure]

I'd like Nill to point out which prospect is ripening in the AHL who would be producing in the NHL if given the opportunity today.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

If Miro makes the team next year, we will jump from 0 to 15-30, I suspect, which should raise our rankings a bit.

Nill obviously went the vet, all in route, whereas TOR had nearly hit rock bottom, and got Marner, Matthews, etc. Nill may be forced to use Miro and maybe other youngsters next year to leave cap space for Tyler, no?

But, to Troy's point, which prospects are ready? We could suppose Heatherington and Dickenson, 22. Only Honka, Hintz and DG will be 21 or under. Of those 3, as fans, most would say Honka is ready, Hintz is close, and DG will likely be a bust. I think consensus is Miro will be ready, so that is 4, close to Toronto's current 5, but we could drop to 3 on the ice. Honka and Miro combined could get us half way to Toronto or more.

 

[Troy McClure]

Want to feel old(er)? Honka is already 22.

 

[jballa95]

Toronto is quite unique because they essentially put all of their top end prospects on the team last year, which helps alleviate the pressures of all of the rookies. Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Brown, Zaitsev, and Kapanen all made the jump to the NHL last year. Shanahan, Lamoriello, Hunter, and Dubas have really transformed the Leafs franchise from the days of Burke and Dubas. Burke insisted on drafting and building a team through size and intimidation, drafting Luke Schenn, trading up to draft Tyler Biggs, Brad Ross and acquiring players like Mike Komisarek, Colton Orr, Dion Phaneuf, Jay Rosehill, etc. The only player that they had with any skill for years was Phil Kessel, and Burke traded two firsts and a second. (The two firsts ended up being Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. With the size and intimidation tactic they never got anywhere, its only once they started to transition to Hockey IQ + Speed/Skill they started to become good. They started that process through drafting the likes of Marner, Nylander, Matthews, and Reilly. Their two major issues right now is defensive depth, as they need someone to play #1 minutes beside Reilly and what they are going to do with the contracts of Matthews, Nylander, and Marner. But they only started to become good when they changed their philosophy from being the big slow intimidating leafs, to the skilled quick young and talented leafs.

 

[jballa95]

Also, I don't think the issues with drafting necessarily should be put on Nill other than choosing McDonnell as his director of scouting. Nill essentially leaves and trusts McDonnell to deal with scouting and drafting and the only issue that I've had with him is his persistence to draft large lumbering wingers who drive the net and show occasional signs of brilliance. His picks of Honka and Heiskanen in my opinion are excellent, both D-men with a high hockey IQ and good skill set.

 

[Kcb12345]

If Miro makes the team next year, we will jump from 0 to 15-30, I suspect, which should raise our rankings a bit.

Nill obviously went the vet, all in route, whereas TOR had nearly hit rock bottom, and got Marner, Matthews, etc. Nill may be forced to use Miro and maybe other youngsters next year to leave cap space for Tyler, no?

But, to Troy's point, which prospects are ready? We could suppose Heatherington and Dickenson, 22. Only Honka, Hintz and DG will be 21 or under. Of those 3, as fans, most would say Honka is ready, Hintz is close, and DG will likely be a bust. I think consensus is Miro will be ready, so that is 4, close to Toronto's current 5, but we could drop to 3 on the ice. Honka and Miro combined could get us half way to Toronto or more.

Gurianov isn't ideal, but he isn't a bust yet. He has slowly turned it around in the AHL and has showed at times his potential is still there. He could easily still become a bust, but at this rate so could all of our prospects considering they never get any NHL time or even a chance. Roussel, Ritchie, and hopefully Elie are all out next year. Elie back to the AHL probably. Possibly even Spezza. From here, that's 4 roster spots opening up to some of our young guys, unless of course Nill goes out and signs another depth free agent to a long term deal. Not sure what will happen with Gemel Smith honestly.

Next step? Give the young guys more playing time than 6-8 minutes a night.

 

[BfantZ]

Don’t understand why hitch hasn’t tried Dickinson on the top line . He’s played really well the last 4 or 5 games . Could really see him having chemistry with seguin .