I'd like to try and see how he goes in the role and then fall back on Gagner if he doesn't work and would vastly prefer that option over signing old junk like a Bozak to fill the role.
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I'd like to try and see how he goes in the role and then fall back on Gagner if he doesn't work and would vastly prefer that option over signing old junk like a Bozak to fill the role.
Southern_Canuck
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- Sep 13, 2004
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Hahaha - just try and make an NHL lineup with the contracts Vancouver has today...!
You know that Linden and Benning will make a couple of poor investments for veteran help on July 1 - that is their MO.
I think we can count on more of Miller, Vrbata, Weber, Bartkowski, Cracknell, Eriksson, Skille, Shore, Holm, Megna, Chaput, Del Zotto, Gagner, Wiercioch, Burmistrov, Nilsson, and Vanek in an attempt to make the playoffs...!
S_C
You know that Linden and Benning will make a couple of poor investments for veteran help on July 1 - that is their MO.
I think we can count on more of Miller, Vrbata, Weber, Bartkowski, Cracknell, Eriksson, Skille, Shore, Holm, Megna, Chaput, Del Zotto, Gagner, Wiercioch, Burmistrov, Nilsson, and Vanek in an attempt to make the playoffs...!
S_C
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Oh, absolutely.
This is a team that should be cleaning out garbage veterans and playing 4-5 rookies next year but instead will be keeping their existing garbage veterans, adding more garbage veterans, and then blaming the young players when the team sucks again.
Nucker42
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I mean I'm not sure what the issue with some completion would be. Vanek coming back and being a trade chip would be smart. He's proven to fit in with this group.
Last year, the Canucks were decimated by injuries. Tons of kids were given a chance.
Goldobin, Boucher, Boeser, Gaudette, Sautner, Demko got a game, Motte, Pouliot, Virtanen, Leipsic....
Next year, possibly the same guys plus Petersson, Dahlen, Juolivi and more...
Not sure how bringing in a some vets stunts anything. The Canucks have more drafted players signed then I can remember and a number of those guys will be in either Utica or Vancouver. A couple of players will be added this year and who knows, maybe a Dobson or Bouchard gets a taste in the NHL?
I know BEnning has made some mistakes but lets look at the UFA's last year?
Burmistrov was let go so who cares?
MDZ, hard worker and stayed healthy, might be flipped this year?
Gagner, down year but good on the PP and the Shootout. Also a potential trade chip.
Nilsson, good chance he gets dealt. Demko is ready. Was pretty much signed as a stop gap. He's not great but who was great for the Canucks last year other than Boeser?
I'm hoping Petterson makes the team and the Canucks sign Reaves for protection. Also hope Gaunce gets dealt and Archibald gets resigned.
I think you answered your own question. The kids only got chances because of injuries, so if the team is any healthier what's going to happen? Even Boeser was healthy scratched for the first two games of the season, and didn't get tried on PP1 until well over a month into the season.
Meanwhile on Long Island, Mathew Barzal is getting 15 minutes a night, top 6 minutes, from the day the puck drops. What does Boeser's season look like if he gets treated like that? What does Vancouver's season look like? What does the Calder voting look like?
There's only so many roster spots. Look at the depth chart for next year, just among veterans and one-way contracts:
RW Boeser, Eriksson, Virtanen, Gagner
C Horvat, Sutter, Granlund
LW Baertschi, Gaunce, Leipsic, Goldobin
That's 11 of 13-14 forward roster spots right there. Assuming the chatter is true (and when isn't it with this club) they're looking to bring in a center and winger on top of that. So 13 forwards, and we haven't even listed Gaudette, Pettersson, or Dahlen yet.
Similar story on D, where we already have 8 veterans under control next season. Benning's even mentioned wanting another D (that fabled right-shooting PP dman, good luck with that).
Now they could dump some guys, but there have been absolutely zero rumors of that (Hutton aside). So where are the kids gonna play? The only way forward is horrific injuries again, or Green playing kids over veterans (yeah, right). Fans are right to be skeptical.
Absolutely this.
We're going to sign another center, a gritty depth forward and another defender and there won't be any room left for anyone except maybe Pettersson. Plus we'll keep Nilsson around and send Demko back to Utica because that's easier than admitting we gave out a crap contract we needed to bury.
And then we'll miss the playoffs again with 1 rookie on the team.
What NJ did last year where they cleared out all the 'character' slow veteran crap on their roster, left roster spots for young players and operated a meritocracy, and came back with a young, fast, entertaining team with almost nobody over the age of 26 should be the model for what we're doing here next year. But it's going to be the exact opposite.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
Yeah last season I believe we signed Vanek late and it was a case of one or two too many. With Boeser/Virtanen/Goldobin/Gaunce/Rodin/Boucher/Archibald all pushing for a pro spot, game 1 starts and we only have room in the lineup was 6 minutes of ice time for Virtanen. The rest of the ice time went to vets, half of which have little value to us mid-long term. While injuries are inevitable you don't actually know when they'll happen and you could always go a good stretch with a healthy lineup.
And this summer will be a lot of the same. We have a over filled squad of forwards already, plus a number of kids pushing up from below. How many spots will Benning actually leave by the time the pick drops in October? Yes you don't want to just start a 2nd line of Dahlen-Gaudette-Pettersson and hope for the best, but you also don't want to go and sign say Van Riemsyk-Bozak-Neal as your 2nd line completely blocking all the kids. You want something in the middle, open spots in camp for the kids to compete for on lines accompanied by quality vets.
Unless of course you have an actual plan to stack the farm team, fill the pro team with short term tradeable vets, then run a sell & transition at the deadline... but Benning's never understood the nuances to pull that off.
And this summer will be a lot of the same. We have a over filled squad of forwards already, plus a number of kids pushing up from below. How many spots will Benning actually leave by the time the pick drops in October? Yes you don't want to just start a 2nd line of Dahlen-Gaudette-Pettersson and hope for the best, but you also don't want to go and sign say Van Riemsyk-Bozak-Neal as your 2nd line completely blocking all the kids. You want something in the middle, open spots in camp for the kids to compete for on lines accompanied by quality vets.
Unless of course you have an actual plan to stack the farm team, fill the pro team with short term tradeable vets, then run a sell & transition at the deadline... but Benning's never understood the nuances to pull that off.
Nucker42
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I don't think anyone was happy that Boeser sat out the first two games. However, there may have been more to the story than we know. Once he got in there, he was playing a lot every night.
The problem is, who do you think the Canucks didn't make room for last year? Should the inconsistent Goldobin been given more games? Yeah maybe but he played like crap some games.
Maybe the not-so-prospect Boucher?
I think this year will be different because there will be more prospects pushing for spots than ever before.
Last year, guys like Gadovich, Lind, Dahlen Juolivi weren't either signed or ready. This year they should/will all get a look. Add Demko into the mix who needed a second season of playing a ton of games and now you might actually see some kids in the lineup.
Plus, the Sedins are retired so the Canucks automatically get younger.
I will say that I don't really see what the options are on defence. I think the Canucks must give Juolivi a chance and with 8 NHL contracts already, plus Juolivi and Sautner I'm not sure where he slides in.
I think that Hutton is as good as gone mostly because they need that spot, don't be surprised the Canucks trade Tanev or MDZ to open up another spot.
I don't disagree with everything you're saying but I don't think the Canucks had a number of prospects stunted last year because they didn't get a shot with the big club.
I would actually love to see this strategy, while allowing the young guys to spend a year developing in Utica, and allowing us to suck for one more year. Then the flowing year, come back with MS's strategy, with the young guys slightly seasoned, even having some gams in the NHL through injuries... I think this is the best long term plan (and another high end lottery pick to boot).
This team does need a #2 centre though. I have no interest in just throwing Petterson and Gaudette into the deep end. Can't say with any certainty right now that either are even ready for the NHL, never mind centering a 2nd line. I'm not interested in anything long term (save signing Tavares, or ROR being a cap dump--neither of which will occur) but overpaying someone like Stastny or even Bozak on a short term deal is better imo for the development of our prospects.
This allows Petterson to break in on the wing, lets Gaudette start on the 4th or even in the AHL, and gives a legit top 6 C for our young wingers to play with. I don't see adding a top 6 C as a hindrance to our prospects, I see it as a necessity to help their developments.
This allows Petterson to break in on the wing, lets Gaudette start on the 4th or even in the AHL, and gives a legit top 6 C for our young wingers to play with. I don't see adding a top 6 C as a hindrance to our prospects, I see it as a necessity to help their developments.
Lindgren
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I'd be curious to see Petterson start at centre, with perhaps Eriksson on one wing and Virtanen on the other. How much more sheltered would he be starting on the wing with a mediocre vet centre like Gagner, or a rookie like Gaudette?
If Gaudette or Pettersson aren't ready, stick Gagner there.
This team isn't making the playoffs either way. Try to succeed with kids first and if not fall back on the guy you already gave a $10 million contract to.
The last thing this thing needs is more crappy contracts to old players.
Gaudette should not be playing on the 4th line in any circumstance. He should either be playing 20 mins/game as the #1 center in Utica or 15 as the #2 guy here.
You know it's too bad Sutter didn't morph into the 'foundational player' Jimbo claimed he'd become....if he had, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But if Pettersson isn't ready then they're going to have to find a legit second-line center somewhere, and there's precious little available in free agency.
I still think that swallowing a bad contract like the one for Spezza and acquiring other assets in return, would be the way to go for VanCity....if nothing else, he could be a bridge player in the middle for the remaining year on his contract.
I still think that swallowing a bad contract like the one for Spezza and acquiring other assets in return, would be the way to go for VanCity....if nothing else, he could be a bridge player in the middle for the remaining year on his contract.
Personally I would be OK with Gagner centering EP and running as a defacto 3rd/4th line (with sutter taking the hard match ups i.e #2 role)
I think Gaudette might be closer to AHL than 2nd line right now, but wouldn't mind him getting a look at 4c depending on preseason outcomes. i see him working his way up like bo, not needing to be coddled like goldy/jake
Gagner simply isn't a top 6 center. He was signed to provide skilled depth and help for the powerplay, and to fill in for injuries.
Running with him as 2C means whichever wingers play with him will be chasing the puck more often than pushing the play. Gagner simply isn't a good enough player to win the matchups you'd expect a 2nd line to see. This does nothing good for the development of whoever is riding shotgun on that line.
Don't agree. Nothing wrong with easing a rookie in as long as he's not getting "goon" type minutes. Also depends on who he plays with. If he's getting 10+ 5v5 mins with say Leipsic and Virtanen, with zone starts skewed to the offensive zone...as long as he's winning those minutes I take that over time in Utica.
Providing Gaudette and Petterson insulation while providing other prospects with a proven top 6 center helps everyone's development. If Gaudette and/or Petterson are ready for a 2nd line roll...well then we start to look competitive again and having a 3rd top 6 C would be a good thing.
According to Jeff Pattersson, Green likes Gaudette. I think Gaudette will make the Canucks next season. But he needs to start producing offensively.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Goldobin should absolutely have been given more games. It was a useless plan to sign crap like Burmistrov, Gagner to play ahead of him, Vanek played ok but It was still not a needed signing .
My guess is that all of Dahlen, Gadjovich, Lind & Joulevi all play the entire year in Utica. Dahlen & Joulevi might get some game but because we have to many crap players blocking them they won't get a chance unless someone is injured.
it would be hard for him not to stand out in that bottom 9 rotation we have. so many guys who only score every 15 games.
gaudette didn't, but it sure looked like he was close a few times
im leaning towards dahlen and oj playing the majority of the year in the nhl. greater than 50% chance they start in the ahl though.
Don't get too hung up on the labels. We all know Horvat and Sutter are going to be playing 17+ minutes/game. Those will be the top lines. The bottom two lines will play lower minutes. Having the Gagner/Gaudette center situation play out there is fine (not fine as the team will be good, because Gagner is unplayable above 4th line if a team wants to do well, but fine in terms of where the Canucks are and whether it's worth to go and sign Bozak or something).
Ryp37
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- Nov 6, 2011
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They said they signed Gagner as Sedin insurance for when he retires, MS is just proposing they actually do what they said and use him there to insulate the youth
David Bruce Banner
Nude Cabdriver Ban
If he can improve his skating, his scoring will come along as well.
If not, he doesn’t project beyond the bottom 6.
What does "Sedin insurance" even mean? You think they signed Gagner as a future 1C? Or does it mean having a forward with offensive vision and the ability to set up a shooter? Gagner can do that, and he clus effective on the PP.
I don't like Gagner, and he doesn't play on a contending team. But I agree with having some skilled veteran depth for our prospects to play with. Going into the season with Gagner as Plan A in the top 6 is bad for our prospects imo. Using cap space--whether by taking on a contract or overpaying on a short term deal--to add a top 6 (or at least a skilled middle 6) center is a must imo.
It means having a skilled player who can move up the lineup?
The problem of course is that Gagner underachieved compared to the expectations. Basically in terms of offensive production, this past year is his worst season except for 2015-2016.
You need players. There aren't a whole lot of attractive options in terms of skilled players who can produce offensively and fill in as a C on the UFA market.
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