TSN: The problems run deep in Ottawa

[solidprospect]

re: pageau

He had 33 points last season and is currently on pace for 29. He's still playing against other teams top lines but with all the losses he doesn't get enough credit. He did well against Matthews yesterday. Generally any scoring Pageau can give is a bonus but he is extremely streaky.

 

[Pangu]

It’s iwnerships fault that management mishandles the dollars he does give them

I mean, this is obviously true when the ownership selects the management.

 

[Alex1234]

re: pageau

He had 33 points last season and is currently on pace for 29. He's still playing against other teams top lines but with all the losses he doesn't get enough credit. He did well against Matthews yesterday. Generally any scoring Pageau can give is a bonus but he is extremely streaky.

How much time did he spend against AM34 ?
When were away we dont really match lines that much
I think hes a major down this year and I say that even I like Pageau a lot but the excuses that he plays against the top line all the time Im not sure

Its the same with Ceci
Me thinks EK plays more against top opposition then Ceci

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Pierre DORION should include this little tidbit in the "Everything" he is looking at.

 

[solidprospect]

How much time did he spend against AM34 ?
When were away we dont really match lines that much
I think hes a major down this year and I say that even I like Pageau a lot but the excuses that he plays against the top line all the time Im not sure

Its the same with Ceci
Me thinks EK plays more against top opposition then Ceci

Not sure exactly or how to find out other than actually keeping track during a game. I usually just assume that is the matchup Boucher wants, also that line seems to start most games for us.

Only %34 of his shifts this year have been started in the offensive zone, and close to %66 in the defensive zone. So if he is playing against a teams top line, they have to shut the line down and carry the puck out for a scoring chance. No easy task.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Re: the article

It's not like our top 6 is pushing for top of the league either.

Stone, Dzingel, Hoffman, Brassard and Turris before he was dealt have all produced respectably this season. The big thing was the drought from Duchene and Ryan after the Sweden trip was a huge factor in the massive losing streak which will ultimately seal this team's fate. We didn't have the offensive depth to absorb those two being MIA. That's the point of depth. Guys will inevitably go on cold streaks, you'll never have everyone firing at 100%. Even when the team went to the conference final, Stone struggled while Ryan picked up the slack along with Pageau. Dorion filling the bottom 6 with plugs who make way more than they're worth is a huge problem.

 

[solidprospect]

Stone, Dzingel, Hoffman, Brassard and Turris before he was dealt have all produced respectably this season. The big thing was the drought from Duchene and Ryan after the Sweden trip was a huge factor in the massive losing streak which will ultimately seal this team's fate. We didn't have the offensive depth to absorb those two being MIA. That's the point of depth. Guys will inevitably go on cold streaks, you'll never have everyone firing at 100%. Even when the team went to the conference final, Stone struggled while Ryan picked up the slack along with Pageau. Dorion filling the bottom 6 with plugs who make way more than they're worth is a huge problem.

Yeah we're also missing MacArthur in the top 6, where Smith has to fill in. He's a perfect 3rd line winger but asking him to score consistently isn't going to happen.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Yeah we're also missing MacArthur in the top 6, where Smith has to fill in. He's a perfect 3rd line winger but asking him to score consistently isn't going to happen.

Not adequaltdy preparing for MacArthur's retirement is also one of Dorion's many mistakes.

 

[solidprospect]

Not adequaltdy preparing for MacArthur's retirement is also one of Dorion's many mistakes.

Wonder if we tried re-signing Stalberg or Wingels at all. Some of the missing bottom 6 depth and Wingels is cheaper than Thompson. The only way we signed Thompson is offering him a NTC.

 

[jbeck5]

Yost does what he does best. Cherry picks stats to suit his argument.

Why is using stats to back up your point a bad thing? If anything, more people should use stats to show what they mean.

 

[swiftwin]

Wonder if we tried re-signing Stalberg or Wingels at all. Some of the missing bottom 6 depth and Wingels is cheaper than Thompson. The only way we signed Thompson is offering him a NTC.

We tried to re-sign Stahlberg, but he wanted more term than we were willing to give.

Not sure about Wingels, but I doubt he'd help us very much.

 

[Alex1234]

Not sure exactly or how to find out other than actually keeping track during a game. I usually just assume that is the matchup Boucher wants, also that line seems to start most games for us.

Only %34 of his shifts this year have been started in the offensive zone, and close to %66 in the defensive zone. So if he is playing against a teams top line, they have to shut the line down and carry the puck out for a scoring chance. No easy task.

You are right
Thats food for thought for sure

 

[Knave]

God I hate per 60 stats.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Why is using stats to back up your point a bad thing? If anything, more people should use stats to show what they mean.

I think a lot of people go about it backwards. They use stats to try and prove their hypothesis and can twist it to do as opposed as have a hypothesis and see if the stats back it up or not.

Not everyone of course but I can see it happening a lot.

 

[SensFactor]

Gotta find a way to improve our defense. That's the key for our team. Everything starts from the backend out. Our d core is attrocious. Never should have signed Oduya and let Methot go.
Phaneuf is turning into a stationary pylon before our eyes and has so much more left on his contract. Then there is Ceci (low confidence), Borowiecki (AHL), Claesson (massive decline and playing AHL calibre) and Harpur. Too many mediocre Dman on the team. Add the fact that Karlsson is hurt or playing passive hockey and we give up way too many chances.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

God I hate per 60 stats.

Why? Serious question. I think they are useful...
Player A vs Player B... Player A has twice as many points than Player B but Player A is getting 3 times as much ice time than Player B. It gives you a measure of productivity vs toi. Not saying its everything you need but it is a useful measurement.

'

 

[Knave]

Why? Serious question. I think they are useful...
Player A vs Player B... Player A has twice as many points than Player B but Player A is getting 3 times as much ice time than Player B. It gives you a measure of productivity vs toi. Not saying its everything you need but it is a useful measurement.

'

Because player B will be deployed differently than Player A, especially at home but even on the road. Not all minutes are equal or used for the same purpose.

 

[swiftwin]

Gotta find a way to improve our defense. That's the key for our team. Everything starts from the backend out. Our d core is attrocious. Never should have signed Oduya and let Methot go.
Phaneuf is turning into a stationary pylon before our eyes and has so much more left on his contract. Then there is Ceci (low confidence), Borowiecki (AHL), Claesson (massive decline and playing AHL calibre) and Harpur. Too many mediocre Dman on the team. Add the fact that Karlsson is hurt or playing passive hockey and we give up way too many chances.

Boro was actually pretty good to start the season. Losing Wideman also hurt. Everyone is focusing on Methot, but when you think about it, we actually lost 3 of our top 6 from last year. That hurts no matter how you spin it.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

We tried to re-sign Stahlberg, but he wanted more term than we were willing to give.

Not sure about Wingels, but I doubt he'd help us very much.

How much more term?

 

[Micklebot]

Because player B will be deployed differently than Player A, especially at home but even on the road. Not all minutes are equal or used for the same purpose.

Players that play the same number of mins can be deployed differently too though. Your concern seems less related to /60 stats and more concerning the lack of context, but pretty much any metric in isolation lacks context.

 

[JungleBeat]

Not sure exactly or how to find out other than actually keeping track during a game. I usually just assume that is the matchup Boucher wants, also that line seems to start most games for us.

Only %34 of his shifts this year have been started in the offensive zone, and close to %66 in the defensive zone. So if he is playing against a teams top line, they have to shut the line down and carry the puck out for a scoring chance. No easy task.

The eye test can easily be wrong when trying to keep track during a game. Duchene spent 9:04 minutes against Mathews while Pageau spent just under 5 minutes against him.

 

[BondraTime]

The eye test can easily be wrong when trying to keep track during a game. Duchene spent 9:04 minutes against Mathews while Pageau spent just under 5 minutes against him.

TO had last change and wanted their 1st out against Duchene, they had Kadri line shadowing Stone.

 

[solidprospect]

The eye test can easily be wrong when trying to keep track during a game. Duchene spent 9:04 minutes against Mathews while Pageau spent just under 5 minutes against him.

Is there a site where you were able to find that out? Last change doesn't help as Bondra mentioned.

 

[jbeck5]

I think a lot of people go about it backwards. They use stats to try and prove their hypothesis and can twist it to do as opposed as have a hypothesis and see if the stats back it up or not.

Not everyone of course but I can see it happening a lot.

I guess. There's many times i've started writing an argument, go look at stats to add to back me up, realize they don't exist, so i delete everything i was going to say and move along with my day.

But if someone is trying to prove a specific point and they use specific stats i think that's good. I hate when people make an argument but never bring in stats that back up their point. Cherry picked stats are better than no stats at all. Because any stat used to help prove a point is in fact a "cherry picked stat" and that's a good thing.

 

[jbeck5]

Why? Serious question. I think they are useful...
Player A vs Player B... Player A has twice as many points than Player B but Player A is getting 3 times as much ice time than Player B. It gives you a measure of productivity vs toi. Not saying its everything you need but it is a useful measurement.

'

I agree with you. Per 60 stats are useful just like points per game or teams point percentage.

There are production stats (total production) and productivity stats (output/input) and both stats are useful.

production stats include stats like goals, assists, points, penalty minutes, where you add up.
Productivity stats include stuff like pp%, pk%, points per game, points per 60 min, wins per game, goals per game, where you take the total and divide by the number of chances.

Both are very useful.