The Pre-Mario Pittsburgh Penguins

[Davenport]

This thread was inspired by Crosby2010's post on the "Obscure hockey facts" thread about Dave Burrows, and the 1975-76 edition of the Pittsburgh Penguins. I loved the Penguins of the 1970s, and not just because of the beautiful blue jerseys. The period 1974-75 through 1978-79 was the peak period of the pre-Mario Penguins: Four times out of five seasons, Pittsburgh had more wins than losses. There was a goal scoring explosion during the 1974-75 and 1975-76 seasons: the Penguins scored 326 goals (4th best in the NHL) in 1974-75, and 339 goals (2nd best in the NHL). Like last season's Sabres, they scored a lot of goals, and allowed a lot of goals.

In 1975-76, there were six 50-goal scorers in the NHL, and two of them were Penguins: Pierre Larouche (53) and Jean Pronovost (52). Those two gentlemen were two of the nine NHLers to hit the 100-point mark. Their teammate, Syl Apps Jr., finished with 99 points. Apps' 67 assists were 6th best in the league.

Of course, when I think of Pittsburgh Penguins - and especially of the pre-Mario Penguins - the first names which come to me are from the first two or three seasons: Andy Bathgate, Bob Woytowich, Les Binkley, Michel Briere. Memories...

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[BraveCanadian]

Drafted Jean Pronovost a few years ago in the all time draft and got a real appreciation for him as a player.

 

[Davenport]

Drafted Jean Pronovost a few years ago in the all time draft and got a real appreciation for him as a player.

Pronovost was the best of the pre-Mario Penguins.

 

[Chili]

The Pens had a great powerplay in the early 1980's led by guys like Randy Carlyle, Rick Kehoe and Paul Gardner. In 1981-82 they scored 99 powerplay goals to break the NHL record. That has been passed a number of times since, the 1988-89 Pens with Lemieux & Coffey still hold the record with 119. No team has reached 100 ppgs since 2005-06.

Most Powerplay Goals Team One Season | StatMuse

The Pittsburgh Penguins have scored the most power-play goals by a team in a season, with 119 scored in 1988-89.

www.statmuse.com

 

[kaiser matias]

There was a book published a few years ago about the early Penguins, The Pittsburgh Penguins: The First 25 Years by Greg Enright. Haven't read it yet, but has anyone here gone through it, and if so is it worth going after?

 

[Davenport]

The Pens had a great powerplay in the early 1980's led by guys like Randy Carlyle, Rick Kehoe and Paul Gardner. In 1981-82 they scored 99 powerplay goals to break the NHL record. That has been passed a number of times since, the 1988-89 Pens with Lemieux & Coffey still hold the record with 119. No team has reached 100 ppgs since 2005-06.

Most Powerplay Goals Team One Season | StatMuse

The Pittsburgh Penguins have scored the most power-play goals by a team in a season, with 119 scored in 1988-89.

www.statmuse.com

Paul Gardner was something of a latter-day Camille Henry. His skating wasn't terrific, but he could certainly score - and especially on the powerplay. Gardner led the NHL in powerplay goals in 1981-82 and 1982-83. His 5 30-goal seasons are all the more impressive when you see how many games he played those 5 seasons while hitting the 30-goal mark.

 

[Crosby2010]

Predictably a lot of playoff failures. 1975 and 1982 (they were huge underdogs but had the Isles hanging from a cliff in the 3rd period of the clinching game). Another thing to note, Andy Brown was the last goalie in the NHL to not wear a mask in 1974. He wasn't a great goalie but he was a Penguin that year. I believe he still was maskless up until he retired in 1977 in the WHA. Crazy to think someone went that long. Even Glenn Hall had a mask by 1970 when Orr scores against him.

I also wonder speaking of that 1976 Pens team just how close someone like Pronovost and Larouche were to making Team Canada. Obviously we know that team is loaded, and I can't think of someone to remove from that team to make room for either one of them, but if I were to guess Pronovost might be closer being a RWer than Larouche as a centre. No chance Larouche has making it, but maybe a chance Pronovost does. He was in training camp and got cut, so he was definitely considered. Rene Robert is cut as well on RW. I guess when you look at it, Lafleur, Leach and McDonald are the RWers followed by Danny Gare. He certainly had a shot.

Speaking of Dave Burrows, he was cut from that team too.

I tend to also think of Randy Carlyle on those teams. To this day the only Norris winner not in the Hall of Fame who is eligible. I am thinking Subban, Burns, Giordano and maybe Josi will join him soon though.

 

[Chili]

It's amazing the number of offensively gifted players who have played for the Pens. Michel Briere looked to have a bright future before a car accident. Solid rookie year as a 20 year old including leading the team in scoring in the playoffs. What might have been.

 

[Davenport]

It's amazing the number of offensively gifted players who have played for the Pens. Michel Briere looked to have a bright future before a car accident. Solid rookie year as a 20 year old including leading the team in scoring in the playoffs. What might have been.

I think his postseason production was an indication of what was to come. He'd have been good for 20+ goals and 40+ assists for a two or three seasons, and then the Penguins' offensive explosion of the mid-70s would have really goosed his numbers.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, when you look at the Pens' history, they were a half-decent, fairly competitive club for most of 1974 to 1982. Never good enough to really compete for anything big, but also only bad enough to miss the playoffs once (1977-78 was the lone crappy season).

What exactly happened after 1981-82 that their team defence deep-southed? I note that in 1982 they were still middle-of-the-pack defensively, but then in 1983 they crapped out to an abysmal 394 goals against, second-worst in the League. Same coach, same captain. They changed coaches for 1983-84, but we all know how that went (just as bad defensively as the year before, but worse offensively, and then throwing the season late to be able to pick Mario).

My favorite early Penguins story is how the club management named the rink the Igloo, not knowing that Penguins don't live in the Arctic.

 

[Davenport]

January 26, 1971, the Penguins sent Glen Sather to the New York Rangers for Sheldon Kannegiesser and Syl Apps Jr. January 27, 1971, Pittsburgh played host to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Penguins' coach Red Kelly put his newly acquired centre - Apps - between Greg Polis and Jean Pronovost. That trio provided all the offense in the Penguins' 3-1 victory. The PAP Line was born.

 

[Davenport]

Spurred on by the style and resulting success of their cross-state rivals, the Penguins joined the arms race, in earnest, in 1973-74. They acquired Bob Paradise, Steve Durbano and Bob Battleship Kelly.

After the Flyers hoisted the Cup twice, Pittsburgh went beyond trying to beat Philadelphia at their own game to trying to beat them with former Flyers. Ed Van Impe, Bobby Taylor, Tom Bladon, Ross Lonsberry, Orest Kindrachuk and Dave Schultz (by way of LA) joined the Penguins later in the 1970s.

 

[overpass]

Yeah, when you look at the Pens' history, they were a half-decent, fairly competitive club for most of 1974 to 1982. Never good enough to really compete for anything big, but also only bad enough to miss the playoffs once (1977-78 was the lone crappy season).

What exactly happened after 1981-82 that their team defence deep-southed? I note that in 1982 they were still middle-of-the-pack defensively, but then in 1983 they crapped out to an abysmal 394 goals against, second-worst in the League. Same coach, same captain. They changed coaches for 1983-84, but we all know how that went (just as bad defensively as the year before, but worse offensively, and then throwing the season late to be able to pick Mario).

My favorite early Penguins story is how the club management named the rink the Igloo, not knowing that Penguins don't live in the Arctic.

One thing I look for in the 80s is young defencemen. It seems like the bad clubs always had these 20 year old defencemen up who probably didn't really know how to play the position yet. Toronto had a lot of these in the 80s, for example.

The 82-83 Penguins had 243 GP by defencemen age 19-23, meaning their defence was 50% 23 or under. They traded Pat Price halfway through the season - who wasn't a star but at least he was a veteran - and allowed 1 more goal per game in the second half than the first half.

The young guys included Randy Boyd, Marc Chorney, Ron Meighan, Tony Feltrin, and Rod Buskas. Only Buskas went on to have a real career, possibly because he was a fighter.

 

[decma]

One thing I look for in the 80s is young defencemen. It seems like the bad clubs always had these 20 year old defencemen up who probably didn't really know how to play the position yet. Toronto had a lot of these in the 80s, for example.

The 82-83 Penguins had 243 GP by defencemen age 19-23, meaning their defence was 50% 23 or under. They traded Pat Price halfway through the season - who wasn't a star but at least he was a veteran - and allowed 1 more goal per game in the second half than the first half.

The young guys included Randy Boyd, Marc Chorney, Ron Meighan, Tony Feltrin, and Rod Buskas. Only Buskas went on to have a real career, possibly because he was a fighter.

If Faubert hadn't had the career-ending broken leg in 81/82, and if Stackhouse had decided to stick around for one more season, the 82/83 D would have looked very different.

 

[The Panther]

One thing I look for in the 80s is young defencemen. It seems like the bad clubs always had these 20 year old defencemen up who probably didn't really know how to play the position yet. Toronto had a lot of these in the 80s, for example.

Oh man, you are so right.

Somebody needs to do an in-depth analysis of Toronto's defence core c. 1982 to 1989. Just abysmal and YOUNG.

 

[Davenport]

Oh man, you are so right.

Somebody needs to do an in-depth analysis of Toronto's defence core c. 1982 to 1989. Just abysmal and YOUNG.

In the late 60s - once the long-in-the-tooth veterans were gone - the Leafs went with a young blueline corps: Jim McKenny (23), Brian Glennie (23), Jim Dorey (22), Mike Pelyk (22) and Rick Ley (21,
ages are from 1969-70)

 

[Davenport]

When you look at the transactions made throughout the 1970s by the management of the Penguins - many times bringing in veterans in their 30s who didn't stay long - you have to wonder if they were (year to year) looking for quick fixes, or making moves which didn't work out as intended. Here are some of those veterans - who you may not recall having been Penguins briefly: Tim Horton (played 44 games), Ed Van Impe (played 22 games over two season), Eddie Shack (played a season-and-a-half), Simon Nolet (played 39 games), Vic Hadfied (played 2 1/2 seasons), Nick Libett (played 2 seasons), Don Awrey (played one season), Ross Lonsberry (played 3 seasons), Pete Mahovlich (played 2 seasons) and Derek Sanderson (played 13 games).