The Post Game Show: Game 2

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Couple thoughts

The good
-Brunner is a NHL player. I think he can put up 20 goals in a full season once he gets adjusted
-Lashoff looked more solid than almost all are other defensemen. Thats mainly a negative, but a positive for this
-Much better game from our offense.
-Howard had a second straight good game. Stats don't show it, but I think right now he is a top 10 goalie
-Even though he lost the fight, Tootoo is everything Abdelkader wishes he could be. Good signing
-Eaves looked pretty good

The Bad
-Our defense, while mobile is brutal in their own zone. I honestly felt the most comfortable with Lashoff out there
-I really, really think the Flip we are going to be seeing is the 45 point center Flip, not the almost 70 point winger flip we saw last season. Hopefully he looks good again when Dats and Z breakup and he's put on the Wing
-Sammuelson, Cleary, Quincy, and Abdelkader. All looked either bad or invisible. Good thing they dont have long contracts for more than they're worth, but alas hindsight is 20/20 and we shouldnt blame Holland. Oh wait, everyone who isn't a complete homer hated all those signings at the time.


This win was nice, but really doesn't help to break our fears of us being out in the first round.

 

[Fugu]

Couple thoughts

The good
-Brunner is a definite NHL player. I think he can put up 20 goals in a full season once he gets adjusted
-Lashoff looked more solid than almost all are other defensemen. Thats mainly a negative, but a positive for this
-Much better game from our offense.
-Howard had a second straight good game. Stats don't show it, but I think right now he is a top 10 goalie
-Even though he lost the fight, Tootoo is everything Abdelkader wishes he could be

The Bad
-Our defense, while mobile is brutal in their own zone. I honestly felt the most comfortable with Lashof out there
-I really, really think the Flip we are going to be seeing is the 45 point center Flip, not the almost 70 point winger flip we saw last season. Hopefully he looks good again when Dats and Z breakup and he's put on the Wing
-Sammuelson, Quincy, and Abdelkader

I'm starting to think they're trying to build a highly mobile defense. Problem is that it's more complicated to play this way than just having bruisers collapsing around their net. Some of this just may be the team having to work out the kinks, figure out where the guys on the ice with them will go. I was just thinking about this after my last post, that the mobility was reminiscent of what Wilson did with Team USA in the last Olympics. They didn't have a very big team, and at times, they made life for the physically bigger Canadians frustrating. Canada won due to overwhelming talent in the end.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

You need mid-level D, and that's what your Whites and Q's of the world are, so I don't get this constant negativity about those midlevel guys. They're never going to be Lids, Pronger, or a top stay-at-home D like Stu in his prime. That said, they're better than some of the other guys we've had because they are decent skaters and they're reasonably mobile.


I agree though that we've got too many guys right now that play the same game. Smitty needs a solid stay at home type, but then again, maybe Babs wants him to stay at home first to work on that side of his game. I wouldn't put that past him. It's just going to tough to make a thoroughbred that only knows how to race become a pack horse.

I watched about eight or nine Grand Rapids games this year... and Smith is playing exactly how he played in GR -- except without the offense.
He was a giveaway machines some nights. And his defensive coverage on the rush is not that solid.
He's going to need to learn to play defense in this league. So I won't blame Babcock giving him a defensive role. But you don't want to ruin the kid. He needs the chance to show why he's such a good player.

but since Brunner is Babcock's eagle scout project, there aren't many PP spots to go around.

 

[HIFE]

*
...32 Shots on Goal today by a Columbus team that can barely gain the blueline and can't complete a pass in the offensive zone unless they are on the man advantage.
...* We're going to get better. Sooner or later, Babcock will split up D and Z. Datsyuk needs the puck. Zetterberg needs the puck. We're a better team when these guys can both have the puck a lot, and they can't do it on the same line. Datsyuk isn't in fighting form yet. Zetterberg played with some oomph tonight. But his lack of speed is worrisome, considering how many years he's signed for.
...* Sammy with 12 minutes of ice time.
...* Until Kronwall made that great pass to Datsyuk,he'd had two straight really bad games. He needs to step up and show he's going to be a leader on this team.
...* Brendan Smith played a passionless game tonight. He looks like he's not enjoying himself out there very much

I give Columbus more credit, they are pretty good hockey team. Not elite but I see the hunger to win as an organization. The shots also were from the 50 penalties we took.

Z and D may or may not get split. There were a few shifts when we witnessed the magic of the twins. All summer people wanted a competent player for Dats, right? The answer was right under our nose. But I agree I want more Datsyuk! He has the ability to take over games when surveying from the center of the rink.

Not a huge Sammy fan this 1st game. Not gonna wish death and dismemberment to get a chance to the prospects like some forum members, but I am watching him closely from now on to see what's really going on.

Kronwall screws up sometimes because he's so afraid to make a mistake. When he does he shows a lot of emotion and anger at himself. I understand he cares but man loosen up a bit. You've got to be professional yet exude swagger/self-confidence.

Same type of thing with Smith. Sooo much pressure to perform, reminds me of a first date! You might be doing it but can't fully enjoy the moment! Good call though, passionate. I really hope it works out for the young guy. Even my Dad is satisfied with him (or has turned all his criticism on Quincey). I'm glad he appears to be humbled and realizes he has to play very smart all around.

 

[nik jr]

mostly negative, imo

CBJ looked pretty bad, but the game was close. both teams looked slow. D was weak again, and offense not great. not a high level of play.

Datsyuk got an assist on White's goal?
Wow. He dumped the puck off to someone and went off for a change. 10 seconds later we scored.

i was really surprised at that, too.

those sort of things used not to count as assists, but now they usually do. scorekeepers apparently award 2a if they can.

He's not on the list. Only three are. Dats is the HM because he isn't playing to his potential yet. Zetterberg is usually the slow starter but looks energized out there. Dats is off. Quincey and Cleary are noticeable because they didn't make any really dumb plays and but weren't game changers either. They are not paid to, either. Datsyuk is.

If not for Smith's bonehead stupidity in the game, Wings win in regulation.

i think quincey's strange, short carom offside dump-in which lead to a counterattack by CBJ on which quincey took a penalty, on which CBJ scored, counts as a dumb play.

weird, sucky D could also be considered a series of dumb plays.

Couple thoughts

The good
-Brunner is a NHL player. I think he can put up 20 goals in a full season once he gets adjusted
-Lashoff looked more solid than almost all are other defensemen. Thats mainly a negative, but a positive for this
-Much better game from our offense.
-Howard had a second straight good game. Stats don't show it, but I think right now he is a top 10 goalie
-Even though he lost the fight, Tootoo is everything Abdelkader wishes he could be. Good signing
-Eaves looked pretty good

The Bad
-Our defense, while mobile is brutal in their own zone. I honestly felt the most comfortable with Lashoff out there
-I really, really think the Flip we are going to be seeing is the 45 point center Flip, not the almost 70 point winger flip we saw last season. Hopefully he looks good again when Dats and Z breakup and he's put on the Wing
-Sammuelson, Cleary, Quincy, and Abdelkader. All looked either bad or invisible. Good thing they dont have long contracts for more than they're worth, but alas hindsight is 20/20 and we shouldnt blame Holland. Oh wait, everyone who isn't a complete homer hated all those signings at the time.


This win was nice, but really doesn't help to break our fears of us being out in the first round.

i thought our fears were of missing the playoffs. at this point, losing in the 1st round is not a bad season, imo.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

It's like people don't realize that Smith is a rookie.. This is his first full season(albeit 48 games), he's going to make mistakes. The sad thing is, he's got a worse partner in Quincey who can't cover **** because he's slow, overly aggressive, and has a low hockey IQ. I'm not sure how anbodyt could argue he looked good or got better as the game went on considering his stupid penalty in the third, and another which he could have got called for(but luckily didn't) in the third as well.

He looked confused and flat footed the entire game.

Seems like he's got some pretty big apologists.

But hey, lets pick on the rookie he's paired up with, what a bum. Not the guy with seasons of pro experience.

Unreal.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

I guess I watched a different game from everyone else here.


Kronwall got better as the game wore on. He made one of the biggest bonehead plays of the game when he cleared a puck from behind the net (with his back to the play) and sent it -- NOT AROUND THE BOARDS -- but right to the stick of an opposing player right in front of Jimmy. Seriously? Why would you clear up the middle blindly and not just shove it around the back of the net? Jimmy save his bacon on that one.

Quincey took a couple of penalties that were part of intensive play, not just being caught flat-footed, but from aggressively battling. He also got better as the game wore on.

Ian White looked good tonight.

Lashoff was a pleasant surprise.

Smith is trying too hard to not screw up, but obviously he's going to make some mistakes. I see him doing two things that need work. One is a rookie thing, the other other is conditioning and endurance. The first thing is he's still misjudging the speed of the transitions. He is about a half-step off, he gets caught flat-footed, and he's underestimating the strength of the men around him. I see him getting outmuscled because he's not accustomed to the NHL speed/strength and he's going to have learn how to use his body and build his strength. He generally knows what to do and where to be, but like I said, his timing is what's off. He gets spun around because he doesn't expect the play to develop that quickly, and then he can't turn and gear up because he lost that step. His passing and puck carrying is fairly good.

The second thing is conditioning. I think his conditioning will improve by virtue of playing in the NHL, but he's also going to have to do more of whatever it is that improves his endurance. His speed isn't going to be there to help him if he has no gas left in the tank. I saw the same thing with him last Spring when he had his call-up. Maybe he needs to ride the bike in the sauna after games (like Chelios did).

Tonight, I think he looked more like a rookie than any other time I've seen him play. I think he's starting to doubt himself (hence my comment about being scared that he's going to screw up, thus overthinking or compounding the situation). He needs a partner that is both experienced and who will communicate to guide him a bit when he starts overthinking.

Coca-cola seemed solid too, until he got hurt. Just bad luck.


Dats, Z and Brunner were great. I like this Brunner guy. He. Keeps. Moving. His. Feet.

Fil was shooting more and Franzen looked like he cared. The energy guys did their bit.

That's all I noticed.

The bolded really made me do a look back. Interference and holding aren't penalties of getting flat footed? Both happened in the second half of the game. How does that equate to him getting better as the game wore on? He was awful. Most of the people who participated in the GDT noticed how bad he was, it's not just me.

 

[RomersWorld*]

I remember when I got called an idiot and a homer for saying that Brendan Smith is clueless in his own end and commits dumb penalties during crunch time.

He has no hockey sense. He gets beat to the outside all the time. He gets beat to the inside all the time. He misplays the puck all the time and he makes boneheaded turnovers.

But like Kronwall, he will throw an occasional hit in the defensive zone which makes some people say "wow...great defense!".

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I remember when I got called an idiot and a homer for saying that Brendan Smith is clueless in his own end and commits dumb penalties during crunch time.

He has no hockey sense. He gets beat to the outside all the time. He gets beat to the inside all the time. He misplays the puck all the time and he makes boneheaded turnovers.

But like Kronwall, he will throw an occasional hit in the defensive zone which makes some people say "wow...great defense!".

That is because it doesn't happen all the time. Love these little Hawks stop ins, riding high at the start of the season again I guess.

Smith has the same problems as the following Leddy, Oduya and for the better part of two seasons Keith.

Really just wish you would stick to your own forum.

Smith is not perfect in his own zone but playing with Quincey certainly isn't helping. It is interesting that he isn't jumping the passing lanes like he normally does down in Grand Rapids. He needs to trust his instincts a little more and free back up. In Grand Rapids this year he has done a great job of stepping up and killing passing lanes, tonight he looked more concerned about getting burned and eventually it happened anyway.

But it isn't like you would see it if it happened. Go back to defending Kyle Beach and pretending in some alternate universe that Shaw beat Smith in a fight.

You guys got all over Newfy for posting on your board the other day after the embarrassing to hockey Rockford and GR bench clearing brawl, but still pop in for your cheap shots, nice to see hypocrisy at work.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I remember when I got called an idiot and a homer for saying that Brendan Smith is clueless in his own end and commits dumb penalties during crunch time.

He has no hockey sense. He gets beat to the outside all the time. He gets beat to the inside all the time. He misplays the puck all the time and he makes boneheaded turnovers.

But like Kronwall, he will throw an occasional hit in the defensive zone which makes some people say "wow...great defense!".

Anybody with half a brain saw Smith having a tough, probably brutal 1st year.

 

[Detroit Swed Wings]

MOD

On a serious note, KQ and Smith are (as already stated) to similar in terms of their style. TWD, we can't have two - at least if one of them is KQ.

 

[JBauerly97]

Anybody know why or have a theory about Tootoo only playing 6:57? I think somebody mentioned in the other thread he may have gotten banged up in the fight and possibly boarded after that, but just curious if anybody knows anything else?

 

[BF3]

I think I will be jumping off the Quincey bandwagon, despite the ample elbow room. He should be our 7th defenseman at the moment (but he won't be due to injuries).

Kronwall-White
Ericsson-Smith
Quincey-Kindl
Lashoff

Not sure how to pair the defenseman up, but this is better than what we have going currently. Quincey is going to stay in the lineup because of all the injuries, so we may as well get used to him. I don't see Babcock putting Lashoff in over him anytime soon. As for our forwards, I think it has been brought up a few times by others, but I think the lines need to be:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner
?-Helm-?
Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo

The ?'s would be some combination of Bert, Sammy, Eaves, and Cleary. Probably in a way I would not prefer, but at least it would make both our top lines dangerous and put Flip in his more natural position on the wing. I just don't see Holland bringing up Tatar, but Nyquist has to be an inevitability at this point (I hope).

Glad we got the win, played alot better, but that wasn't hard considering the **** effort Saturday (not to mention level of competition).

 

[sully6one]

Anybody know why or have a theory about Tootoo only playing 6:57? I think somebody mentioned in the other thread he may have gotten banged up in the fight and possibly boarded after that, but just curious if anybody knows anything else?

I'm guessing because of the penalties he isn't on special teams, then late in the game it was close and needed offense.

 

[zombi]

Did Sammy play last night?

But seriously, he is beyond invisible.

Smith was pretty awful as well.

 

[PullHard]

I remember when I got called an idiot and a homer for saying that Brendan Smith is clueless in his own end and commits dumb penalties during crunch time.

He has no hockey sense. He gets beat to the outside all the time. He gets beat to the inside all the time. He misplays the puck all the time and he makes boneheaded turnovers.

But like Kronwall, he will throw an occasional hit in the defensive zone which makes some people say "wow...great defense!".

Give him time. We can't all draft in the top 5 for numerous years in a row allowing us to expect instant success, though that would be a welcomed change here, I think. Kenny would probably keep a 1st overall pick out of the lineup until he was 24 though.

 

[TatarTangle]

They played light years better last night, game I knew they were going to win from the start. But while Columbus improved, they're still Columbus. It was good to see some semblance of hockey that we're used to seeing though. Kronwall had nasty patience to set up Datsyuk's goal, it's easy for eyes to light up from where he was.

One shootout goal does not indicate one's worth. Unless we're looking for more "shootout specialist" Brunner did look pretty good though but I want to see him play against bigger, better teams e.g St. Louis. I think it might be a case of him looking good against weaker teams and not being effective against stronger teams. We shall see, judgement still out.

Props to Tootoo for dropping the gloves in only his second game as a Red Wing. He provided a lot of energy when was out there.

I don't know why people are stunned Smith is making mistakes out there. Had he been called up a couple years ago we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

 

[Fugu]

The bolded really made me do a look back. Interference and holding aren't penalties of getting flat footed? Both happened in the second half of the game. How does that equate to him getting better as the game wore on? He was awful. Most of the people who participated in the GDT noticed how bad he was, it's not just me.

Ah, next time I will read the GDT so you guys can tell me how the guys are doing.

 

[Brick Top]

Seems like the consensus is to split up Smith and Q (you listening, Babcock?), so maybe we can pair Smith with Huskins when H is available to the lineup. The D still looks shaky to me, as none of the pairings seem solid at all in their own zone. C-bus is a pretty impotent team offensively and they generated a lot of shots.

At least the offense was much better, but again it's tough to discern how much of that is playing against a vastly inferior team to the Blues. Probably take a few more games to see exactly where this team stacks up vs the rest of the division/conference, but early returns aren't overly positive.

I've really like what little I've seen out of Tootoo so far- he brings a snarl to the lineup that we haven't had in years. Hope he's not in Babs' doghouse since he didn't play much last game. Wished we put in a claim on Stewart while he was on waivers- KH has assembled a fleet of mediocre guys for his bottom 6, so I would have been in favor of ditching one of them to bring in someone like Stewart to add some size and thunder... oh well.

 

[Fugu]

Honestly though--- this is the second game after no training camp in September, and 3.5 months of sitting around during the lockout.

Do people really expect to have a good handle on a player and a team after two games?

In the old days, we'd wait until game 14 to start dissecting....

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Honestly though--- this is the second game after no training camp in September, and 3.5 months of sitting around during the lockout.

Do people really expect to have a good handle on a player and a team after two games?

In the old days, we'd wait until game 14 to start dissecting....

Problem is this year that is basically game 7 if you are hoping for fixes.

 

[Fugu]

Problem is this year that is basically game 7 if you are hoping for fixes.

I'm actually writing the entire year off. Between it being truncated, Nick leaving and having to work in both rookies and players that were just brought in, I cannot see how to expect more.

What I mean is that we don't have a solid core on defense, although our core offensive guys are back (Dats, Fil, Z, Franzen and yes, Helm). The offense may be okay with some tweaking, the defense is an entire rebuild basically. In the past, all we've seen is the need to tweak. This is not that situation.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Smith screwed up, but I am expecting Smith to have a rough season. This is just a learning experience year for Smith.

He needs to be paired with somebody who can play defense.

We don't have anybody that can play defense.

 

[McClelland]

Didnt saw the game last night, but brunners so goal was a highlight! did brunner play with z? he had less toi then z despite 2 pk minutes and brunner was -1 and z was +1. Im not sure on brunner, i think he can have great success against weaker teams like cbj and colorado and the jets, but im worried he get pushed around against stronger team like in the first game. I hope nyqvist has a monster evening, i have followed his career very close and im convinced that you got a nhl player there in a near future.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Ah, next time I will read the GDT so you guys can tell me how the guys are doing.

Not surprised you can't rebut my point.