OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Football Drama

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JimmyTwoTimes

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As good as we are at drafting WRs we need to stop taking raw/athletic type on defense in the first round when we need help now.

Dont like the Edmunds picks at all, especially since we have a ton of DBs. The ILB class wasnt deep with a few guys deciding to go back to school but it will be next draft. Hate having to draft another LB, when we should be set by now but with the Shazier injury(jones bust) we have to try again.

At least this time there are about 5-6 ILBs who look like first-early second round picks.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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pats get rid of Nate Solder and lose his replacement for the year(Isiah Wynn who they took 23rd overall)
 

Coastal Kev

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Because he’s clearly the second best QB on the team and this team is too good to just mail it in if Ben gets hurt? I mean, if this were the Jets or something where you know the team sucks and there’s not much to play for, then yeah, see what the kids got. But with this team, they have the talent to do something. If Ben sustains an injury that keeps him out for weeks, Landry is the best option available to try to keep this thing on the right path until Ben returns.

Honest question - why don’t people like Landry? It’s something I’ve never understood. Outside of glaringly obvious situations like Wentz/Foles or Brady/Jimmy G (prior to the trade), I’m not sure how many backups in the league are that much better than Landry Jones is. Am I missing something? Was it the one preseason game that he threw like 5 INTs?

I actually think that Landry is an above average back up QB. The problem as I see it is that he's with an offense that is tailored to Ben, a post snap/move around the pocket for big play offense. Rudolph may have the same problem as well. Both seem like QB's that would excel in a pre-snap read 2-3 step drop and throw ala New England offense. Round peg, Square hole. Based on offense philosophy as I see it, Josh Dobbs is set up to succeed more than Landry or Rudolph.
 

USMC607

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Does anyone think we try to find another free agent ILB (is Bowman still available?) or that we make a trade (Other than Mack, which is low probability), or new formations, what?

Because our inside is just bad, and Bostic/Matakavich are not answers.

Looks like its gonna be a shoot out every game.
 
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SouthGeorge

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We needed to make the switch to 4-3 a long time ago. Our DL and linebackers are terrible. Even when we know it's a running down still giving up 3 yards a pop. I wish we could get a good look at Conner and Samuels to see if trading Bell for Mack for this season is even a possibility. Conner gets one series and Fitz is getting 3rd string touches over Samuels? Fitz is trash and only still on the team because he's a "Tomlin guy"I suggested switching Watt to ILB last year. He'd be better than these other guys. Berry might be the worst punter in the league.

Looking like the same issues as last year. Have to pray Heyward and Tuitt can stay 100% healthy which has proven impossible. Tuitt plays with one arm every year and takes like 2-3 games for him to get injured. Secondary will be stout but will lose to horrible teams on the ground again so losses to the Bucs and Panthers are a lock. Maybe one to the Ravens and Bengals those games are always 50/50. Browns won't be a push over. Then still got Chiefs, Falcons, Jags, Broncos, Chargers, Raiders, Patriots, and Saints. Yeah, this is going to be a tough year.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Does anyone think we try to find another free agent ILB (is Bowman still available?) or that we make a trade (Other than Mack, which is low probability), or new formations, what?

Because our inside is just bad, and Bostic/Matakavich are not answers.

Looks like its gonna be a shoot out every game.

I think we for sure pickup one or two guys who will be released come September. You cant go into the season with what we have at Mack. No way.

Our Dline is set. Our secondary is set(the young guys just have to step up and Burnett more comfortable). LBs arent. We could/should add an OLB and ILB. Watt is injured(he will be back but if hes like his brother we may be worrying about more injuries). Dupree is in his final year to prove himself. Adams in his first healthy year. Chickillo also in his 4th year but I dont see him being a solid starter if needed. And Odenyiyi is a rookie.

Cant believe we finally our set on offense...and even secondary yet now we cant find quality LBs. When thats what weve been known for ...for decades.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

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I’ve thought they had personnel to do a 4-3 for years. As far back as when Tomlin was hired there were questions because he was previously associated with that alignment, but he deferred to LeBeau. But it just feels like there are a lot of guys who seem like they’d be better suited to a 4-3.
 
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USMC607

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I think we for sure pickup one or two guys who will be released come September. You cant go into the season with what we have at Mack. No way.

Our Dline is set. Our secondary is set(the young guys just have to step up and Burnett more comfortable). LBs arent. We could/should add an OLB and ILB. Watt is injured(he will be back but if hes like his brother we may be worrying about more injuries). Dupree is in his final year to prove himself. Adams in his first healthy year. Chickillo also in his 4th year but I dont see him being a solid starter if needed. And Odenyiyi is a rookie.

Cant believe we finally our set on offense...and even secondary yet now we cant find quality LBs. When thats what weve been known for ...for decades.

Agreed for years and years it was our LBs and NT doing work on defense.

Now we finally got a solid secondary and a complete championship calibre offense, and 2 good DEs.

And our NT and LBers are trash.

Cant contain mobile QBs, Cant clog running lanes, cant seal the edges, cant shed blocks, cant drop back in coverage and stay with their man, have trouble bringing backs down on the initial tackle (besides Williams), and so far this preseason it looks like they are struggling to get to the QB even if they are pressuring.
 
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JimmyTwoTimes

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I’ve thought they had personnel to do a 4-3 for years. As far back as when Tomlin was hired there were questions because he was previously associated with that alignment, but he deferred to LeBeau. But it just feels like there are a lot of guys who seem like they’d be better suited to a 4-3.

They could with Hargrave better suited in a 4-3 and the depth we have. But apparently its all about sub packages with Butler this year...Even taking it a step further with 7 DBs at times.

Not sure how thats gonna work out.
 

SouthGeorge

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They could with Hargrave better suited in a 4-3 and the depth we have. But apparently its all about sub packages with Butler this year...Even taking it a step further with 7 DBs at times.

Not sure how thats gonna work out.

I think we saw how that's going to work out. Rodgers caught them on 3rd down trying to sub McCullers off for a DB and results in a Packers touchdown. Brady and Bress will kill them with that.
 

USMC607

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They could with Hargrave better suited in a 4-3 and the depth we have. But apparently its all about sub packages with Butler this year...Even taking it a step further with 7 DBs at times.

Not sure how thats gonna work out.

7 Dbacks is interesting.

But they all better be comfortable with sometimes if the Dline gets pushed back dealing with Olineman getting to them in the 2nd level.

They also better be willing and able tacklers that can wrap up and not just throw a shoulder or dive for a trip.

Cause if they arent and I'm a team with a big power back and a good Oline like Jax and i see 7 Dbacks I'm audibling to a run.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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I think we saw how that's going to work out. Rodgers caught them on 3rd down trying to sub McCullers off for a DB and results in a Packers touchdown. Brady and Bress will kill them with that.

Idk still not taking that game too seriously(even tho I understand why others are given our recent history on D) . No Watt, Heyward, Davis, Hilton, and Haden. Two of our best vets and our best LB. Along with Hilton, our best playmaker now with Shazier gone.
Im excited to see what Burnett and Haden can do playing aside eachother. Burnett is still learning the D but showed some flashes of what he will bring...solid tackling at or near the LOS. Thats where hes best so its a must Davis pans out at FS, we need Burnett at SS. Also brings leadership. With a D filled with young players...Heyward, Tuitt, Haden, and Burnett need to stay healthy.

Burns in his 3rd year...has to take that next step. Dupree in his 4th(alot think hes a bust but he did have some injuries and was it was known how raw he was) and it has to be his best. Whether they decide to drop him back in coverage , lining up as ILB to rush the passer like he did in last game or in his normal spot. With his athleticism it would probably be best to move him around. Davis has to step up in his 3rd year or his job is on the line with Edmunds and Sutton behind him. Edmunds isnt ready yet for a full time job but if Burns and Haden lock down the corner spots maybe we put Sutton in over Davis if he struggles. High expectations again for Hilton, that wasnt a fluke.

Theres alot of "IFs" on this D but they can get it done if Butler does his job. Thats the biggest concern.

I didnt mention the ILBs but if everyone else is doing their job it makes theirs alot easier. And Vince did have a solid season last year until Shazier went down. Hes shown hes capable. I mentioned the 2019 ILB class being very deep and we should be able to land a solid one in the first round but for now we should be having our eyes on final cuts. Not high on Dirty Red at all. But Bostic can be decent IF he is surrounded by players doing their jobs.

And we obviously have to stay healthy on D. Want to see Heyward and Tuitt remain healthy(Cam out 2 years ago, Tuitt with a bum shoulder last year) and see them lead this front. Hargrave has looked better this preseason..also in his 3rd year. We forget 1st...2nd..3rd year guys barely saw the field back then let alone made an impact. But with there being no loyalty anymore and players leaving after their rookie contracts...they are now forced to play right away.


Jags game(and others) left a bad taste in our mouth regarding the D, but I think theres a ton of potential.. Im just worried about Butler getting the most out of it. And dont want him completely changing things either, going too heavy with the sub packages. Not with alot of our guys finally learning the system that was in place the last 3 years. And not with us having a solid Dline.

Like USMC said...7DBs out there could lead to even bigger runs. We'll see. They still havent shown their new schemes on D yet.

Also, Edmunds better pan out because if were gonna reach due to the LBs we wanted being gone then they should have went with the pure FS in Jessie Bates.
 
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JimmyTwoTimes

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7 Dbacks is interesting.

But they all better be comfortable with sometimes if the Dline gets pushed back dealing with Olineman getting to them in the 2nd level.

They also better be willing and able tacklers that can wrap up and not just throw a shoulder or dive for a trip.

Cause if they arent and I'm a team with a big power back and a good Oline like Jax and i see 7 Dbacks I'm audibling to a run.

Yeah, Bostic/Benett are better against the run but youre still right.

Still say we should run 4-3 when not in our sub package(altho supposedly thats taking over) so we dont have Hargave as the NT when hes way better as a DL in a 4-3. He was best at rushing the Qb, 18 sacks in his senior season. Weve been holding him back imo asking him to do something hes not built for. A line of Heyward- Hargrave - Alalu- Tuitt would be much better. Williams as the MLB with Bostic backing him up. Watt OLB. Dupree on the other side, with Adams/Odeniyi subbing in.

But we are going away from that anyway. Mostly subpackage schemes. Hope that doesnt now set them back trying to learn something new. As of now it seems they are forcing that because of our lack of ILBs. It just better not effect our already established players in a negative way. Mainly our two DEs.
 

Pengwins

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is Joshua Frazier any good on Dline?

i bet they can acquire a decent ILB, or atleast i hope they do
 

Brandinho

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Seahawks released Jon Ryan. I was hoping that the Steelers might have signed him but the Bills did. Jordan Berry has had very spotty numbers and looked horrid last game.

'This season, Berry averaged 43.2 gross yards per punt (32nd among NFL punters) with a 39.8 net average (24th in the NFL).

Steelers, punter Jordan Berry agree to contract for 2018

Berry is a perfectly solid punter and absolutely not an area that we need to improve. Berry's distance stats don't tell you anything about his directional punting, which is comfortably above average and still improving, or how effectively he suppresses returns compared to the average punter. Jon Ryan is 36 and isn't an upgrade at all.
 

USMC607

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Seahawks released Jon Ryan. I was hoping that the Steelers might have signed him but the Bills did. Jordan Berry has had very spotty numbers and looked horrid last game.

'This season, Berry averaged 43.2 gross yards per punt (32nd among NFL punters) with a 39.8 net average (24th in the NFL).

Steelers, punter Jordan Berry agree to contract for 2018

Ya Berry is pretty f***ing terrible. I'd like them to pick up literally anyone else. You keep seeing all these no name punters doing at least semi decent.

And we get....noodle leg Berry.

His directional skills arent bad but I mean, that i only matters at the 50 and closer (to your opponents EZ. But If your punting at your end of the field. Screw direction... I want it as far towards the other end zone as possible.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Just re-signed Boz to 5 years. Talk about a kicker coming out of nowhere.

We need to do the same with our punter. Start tryouts like we did with Boz.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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And now Vince Williams to 4 year deal. He had a great season last year but I think benefitted from Shazier alot. Now that hes gone, VW better live up to that contract. They just showed they believe in him


4 year deal worth over 20 mil. So less than 6 mil a year. That could be a steal if he can repeat what he did last year throughout that contract. But like I said..wasnt as good without Shazier.

Its a must we draft one of the ILBs in next years class with is much deeper than 2018. Both Josh Allen Kentucky and Cam Smith USC returned to school. Josh Allen is similar to Shazier. Then you have Devin White LSU(could be the top ILB and would prob have to trade up), Anfernee Jennings Alabama , and Tre Lamar Clemson. All first round prospects right now.

We'll see what happens after the season. But we should be able to land a solid ILB in the first round.

Still say we panicked and messed up in this draft when our ILBs went off the board. reached for Edmunds just because we were desperate to fill in for Shazier. They should have stuck to what they normally do and go BPA.

Dallas Goedert at TE right now would be amazing, to go with the rest of our offense. We have enough safeties like Edmunds anyway. Unless they are expecting him to add 20lbs of muscle without losing speed. I dont see it.

Goedert makes us much better right now than what Edmunds will provide next season. We also could have gotten rid of Mcdonal and his salary and added Kendricks. But whatever.

Definitely a panic move in the first round but they made up for it with the rest of the draft. Good thing they split up the first round and 2nd now...they had a day to think about it.
 
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Brandinho

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And now Vince Williams to 4 year deal. He had a great season last year but I think benefitted from Shazier alot. Now that hes gone, VW better live up to that contract. They just showed they believe in him


4 year deal worth over 20 mil. So less than 6 mil a year. That could be a steal if he can repeat what he did last year throughout that contract. But like I said..wasnt as good without Shazier.

Its a must we draft one of the ILBs in next years class with is much deeper than 2018. Both Josh Allen Kentucky and Cam Smith USC returned to school. Josh Allen is similar to Shazier. Then you have Devin White LSU(could be the top ILB and would prob have to trade up), Anfernee Jennings Alabama , and Tre Lamar Clemson. All first round prospects right now.

We'll see what happens after the season. But we should be able to land a solid ILB in the first round.

Still say we panicked and messed up in this draft when our ILBs went off the board. reached for Edmunds just because we were desperate to fill in for Shazier. They should have stuck to what they normally do and go BPA.

Dallas Goedert at TE right now would be amazing, to go with the rest of our offense. We have enough safeties like Edmunds anyway. Unless they are expecting him to add 20lbs of muscle without losing speed. I dont see it.

Goedert makes us much better right now than what Edmunds will provide next season. We also could have gotten rid of Mcdonal and his salary and added Kendricks. But whatever.

Definitely a panic move in the first round but they made up for it with the rest of the draft. Good thing they split up the first round and 2nd now...they had a day to think about it.

Josh Allen isn't even remotely similar to Shazier. He's a 6'5 260 OLB. Are you thinking of someone else?

With that said, I think that Williams has enough strengths of his own to not turn into poo without Shazier, but you're absolutely correct that he benefited immensely from having Shazier next to him.

I don't think Edmunds was a panic move, per se, although it's pretty obvious that they were looking at his physical tools and hoping they could mould him into a player like Shazier. The thing is, that's what we're going to have to do unless we get really lucky. Players like Shazier do not come around often.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Josh Allen isn't even remotely similar to Shazier. He's a 6'5 260 OLB. Are you thinking of someone else?

With that said, I think that Williams has enough strengths of his own to not turn into poo without Shazier, but you're absolutely correct that he benefited immensely from having Shazier next to him.

I don't think Edmunds was a panic move, per se, although it's pretty obvious that they were looking at his physical tools and hoping they could mould him into a player like Shazier. The thing is, that's what we're going to have to do unless we get really lucky. Players like Shazier do not come around often.

Was actually thinking of Devin White, who will probably be out of our reach. Former RB still learning the position. 133 tackles last season as a sophomore, 4.5 sacks , 1 INT, 1FF. Playmaker.

Can only see him improving, but will also go too high. 15 at the lowest like Shazier. Id trade up in a heartbeat. And we should but wont.
 

Andy99

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And now Vince Williams to 4 year deal. He had a great season last year but I think benefitted from Shazier alot. Now that hes gone, VW better live up to that contract. They just showed they believe in him


4 year deal worth over 20 mil. So less than 6 mil a year. That could be a steal if he can repeat what he did last year throughout that contract. But like I said..wasnt as good without Shazier.

Its a must we draft one of the ILBs in next years class with is much deeper than 2018. Both Josh Allen Kentucky and Cam Smith USC returned to school. Josh Allen is similar to Shazier. Then you have Devin White LSU(could be the top ILB and would prob have to trade up), Anfernee Jennings Alabama , and Tre Lamar Clemson. All first round prospects right now.

We'll see what happens after the season. But we should be able to land a solid ILB in the first round.

Still say we panicked and messed up in this draft when our ILBs went off the board. reached for Edmunds just because we were desperate to fill in for Shazier. They should have stuck to what they normally do and go BPA.

Dallas Goedert at TE right now would be amazing, to go with the rest of our offense. We have enough safeties like Edmunds anyway. Unless they are expecting him to add 20lbs of muscle without losing speed. I dont see it.

Goedert makes us much better right now than what Edmunds will provide next season. We also could have gotten rid of Mcdonal and his salary and added Kendricks. But whatever.

Definitely a panic move in the first round but they made up for it with the rest of the draft. Good thing they split up the first round and 2nd now...they had a day to think about it.

Have no idea what they see in VW to sign him for 4 years...hopefully the guarantees are low...

Steelers never learn in the draft...only three or four draft picks at best are going to amount to anything....they had a real need at ILB...when the first one went off the board they should have been moving up ASAP....instead, they stay put and get whatever...what makes a team a SB contender is having special players...I’d rather come out of the draft with three quality players who have a chance to be special than 7 meh picks...
 

Brandinho

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Was actually thinking of Devin White, who will probably be out of our reach. Former RB still learning the position. 133 tackles last season as a sophomore, 4.5 sacks , 1 INT, 1FF. Playmaker.

Can only see him improving, but will also go too high. 15 at the lowest like Shazier. Id trade up in a heartbeat. And we should but wont.

Ooooh, gotcha. Yeah, I'd definitely be willing to trade up if it would net us someone with the physical ability to do what Shazier did.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Ooooh, gotcha. Yeah, I'd definitely be willing to trade up if it would net us someone with the physical ability to do what Shazier did.

Yeah Josh Allen is the one who went back to school. And we probably would have taken(unless he went above Evans, allowing him to fall to us). We got unlucky there. With both him and Cam Smith(2nd round grade) returning...so teams who needed a ILB didnt wait. We dont usually see that many ILbs taken that early. Teams knew it wasnt a deep class.

With us knowing that too, and with our guys off the board should have just waited til 2019 to fix that and took BPA. Yeah we have offense and need defense but Goedert would be perfect for us right now. Already having AB, Juju, Washington, Bell...another big threat like Goedert who can stretch the field? Ridiculous. There goes our redzone issues. Jesse James is a solid #2 and McDonald cant stay healthy.

Yeah defense is more important in the draft right now but we still need to make sure the offense doesnt drop off(we did that replacing Bryant with Washington, took Rudolph..lineman) by the time the defense is finally rebuilt.

I keep mentioning this but its crazy we finally have a top offense yet a mediocre defense. When we never had to worry about that ...something we took for granted in how good they were against the run, LBs, etc... For anyone over the age of 30 we constantly witnessed us having a great defense yet the offense couldnt get us over the top. Until we drafted Ben and won 2 . But even in those wins it was due to the defense, with Ben making big plays when needed. Against GB our D was getting older(And Aaron Smith got hurt for the year...Hood was not a good fit ) but still good enough yet our offense went thru a retool that year at the worst time with Brown and Sanders being rookies, Ward about done, and traded Holmes in the offseason. Wallace didnt come thru like Holmes did ...like we needed. We win that superbowl if Ab and Sanders had just one more year of experience going in(they both, especially brown broke out the next season).

Anyway after drafting Bell, and Brown becoming what he is...and Ben becoming a more accurate passer ...we now have a top offense the last 3 years yet no defense to go with it.

Horrible timing..especially with Shazier getting hurt.

I dont want to look back on these years not having won 1 or 2 more superbowls in this era. We need to fix this asap. Risky going with totally new schemes on D next year. It may help some of the DBs, but also could effect guys like Heyward/Tuitt in a bad way. We'll see. If Butler cant get it done this year tho hes gotta go. Thats more of a concern to me than Tomlin. We always relied more on our Coords than HC anyway. Not that Tomlin gets a pass
 
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SouthGeorge

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Berry is a perfectly solid punter and absolutely not an area that we need to improve. Berry's distance stats don't tell you anything about his directional punting, which is comfortably above average and still improving, or how effectively he suppresses returns compared to the average punter. Jon Ryan is 36 and isn't an upgrade at all.

Uhhh... did you watch the last game? He had a 30 and 28 yard punt. You are right, he's solid at directional punting. I'd take a big leg with a little worse directional over him. Ball going into the endzone here and there isn't the end of the world. Having them start at the 20. Having them start at the 50 or on our side of the field because noodle leg has the yips is a serious issue. He's one of the worst punters in the league and I've been saying it for years. Take a punter who can't flip the field all day. Not to mention we pin them at the 1 and you know they are going to break a 20 yard run anyways. Happened last game as well.
 
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