The Pittsburgher Thread - Steelers/Football talk

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Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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I'm not arguing with any of your points but I think you're forgetting this is the Clown show.

If things are that unstable internally with the amateurs that own and coach the team as I suspect-that can trickle down a dramatic downfall is possible. Khan and Colbert seem to be the only 2 in the organization with brains.

It’s been Tomlin Purgatory for a decade and Art2 has been officially running the team for four seasons now.

What exactly is this big change that will cause them to fall off a cliff so badly they will be worse than the ‘88 Steelers?

I’d love nothing more than to have Doc or HOG ‘rub it in my face’ that I was wrong... nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Tomlin exposed next season and a chance to start a whole new era with a top five pick.

I just don’t see any legit evidence this team next season is anything but a playoff fringe type squad with Roth back.
 

Night Shift

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It’s been Tomlin Purgatory for a decade and Art2 has been officially running the team for four seasons now.

What exactly is this big change that will cause them to fall off a cliff so badly they will be worse than the ‘88 Steelers?

I’d love nothing more than to have Doc or HOG ‘rub it in my face’ that I was wrong... nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Tomlin exposed next season and a chance to start a whole new era with a top five pick.

I just don’t see any legit evidence this team next season is anything but a playoff fringe type squad with Roth back.

Even though (which I agree with most posters here that they should go OL early) they address the OL, can't really expect a bunch of kids to come in and play all pro..itll take a while to come together and develop their skill.

Ben will have to leave the cement shoes home or itll be a bad combo. Young OL/Cement shoes...yikes
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Even though (which I agree with most posters here that they should go OL early) they address the OL, can't really expect a bunch of kids to come in and play all pro..itll take a while to come together and develop their skill.

Ben will have to leave the cement shoes home or itll be a bad combo. Young OL/Cement shoes...yikes

If Roth uses his brain and plays Canada’s system... he will have a running game and use play action... and this sounds crazy, but run from the I... it’s whacked I know.

The better they run, the less he has to worry about running his old ass around.

Whatever, this all feels so stupid talking about.

Unless people are right and Roth transforms into a modern day Kent Graham over night, next season is going to be a huge f***ing waste and org setback.
 
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xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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I'm not arguing with any of your points but I think you're forgetting this is the Clown show.

If things are that unstable internally with the amateurs that own and coach the team as I suspect-that can trickle down a dramatic downfall is possible. Khan and Colbert seem to be the only 2 in the organization with brains.

This isn’t a defense of Tomlin and I know people hate to hear it, but the fact still is that he hasn’t had a losing season. And that includes a season with Rudolph and Duck as his starters. This is also a guy who’s won games with Mike Vick, Dennis Dixon, And Landry Jones.

In no way do I think they’re going to compete or even make the playoffs, but Ben is still going to have his moments and do enough to make us completely mediocre.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Reading the Rooney statement again.

I still think there's work to be done. If they intended to just spread it out it would have already happened. The Steelers are going to ask Ben to take a pay cut outright with no future years cap hit. Ben & his agent are going to push for that $19M to be spread over future years.

If Rooney were willing to pay Roethlisberger 19M guaranteed this season, then it would take about 5 minutes to hammer out the details of that deal.

Rooney will push for a cut. Whether it's a cut no matter what or it's converting some of the roster bonus to a signing bonus and some to performance bonuses is the question, as is whether Ben will take anything less than the 19M guaranteed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it were me, as an owner, and I wanted (a) to give him a chance at another year, (b) given him a guaranteed pay cut, and (c) allow him to save face in some measure, then I suppose my only offer would be something like this:

Signing Bonus - 9M
2021 Salary - 3M
3/1/22 Roster Bonus - 7M
2022 Salary - 15M
2023 Salary - 15M

Annual Performance Incentives- 13M

(only a tiny amount to earn based on individual play, mostly on total offensive performance, turnovers, wins, and especially playoff wins . . . maybe 3M for win superbowl, 3M for win AFC championship, 3M for reach AFC championship, and then the other 4M a mix of easier and not easy to attain regular season individual and team variables)

From an owners' perspective, that means Ben's 2021 cap hit is 6M and his guaranteed salary is 12M. If the Steelers reach the AFC championship, ONLY THEN does he hit the 19M. They go further, he makes more than 19M.

So, as an owner, you're saying 'okay, put your money where your mouth is and I'll do the same'.

It's a win-win-win for Rooney . . . Ben kills it, he wins. Ben sucks, then it's a 6M cap hit this year and only has 6M dead cap next year. Ben says NO, then he's got the high ground (after all, he offered to convert this last year to a 3 year, 49M deal with another 13M in annual incentives and it would be Ben who said NO).

This isn’t a defense of Tomlin and I know people hate to hear it, but the fact still is that he hasn’t had a losing season. And that includes a season with Rudolph and Duck as his starters. This is also a guy who’s won games with Mike Vick, Dennis Dixon, And Landry Jones.

In no way do I think they’re going to compete or even make the playoffs, but Ben is still going to have his moments and do enough to make us completely mediocre.

Wake me up when Tomlin's defense doesn't get shredded in the playoffs. His pedigree as a 1 year DC was coaching the worst pass defense in football, and that one sure rears it's ugly head when the games matter most.
 
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ChaosAgent

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If Rooney were willing to pay Roethlisberger 19M guaranteed this season, then it would take about 5 minutes to hammer out the details of that deal.

Rooney will push for a cut. Whether it's a cut no matter what or it's converting some of the roster bonus to a signing bonus and some to performance bonuses is the question, as is whether Ben will take anything less than the 19M guaranteed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it were me, as an owner, and I wanted (a) to give him a chance at another year, (b) given him a guaranteed pay cut, and (c) allow him to save face in some measure, then I suppose my only offer would be something like this:

Signing Bonus - 9M
2021 Salary - 3M
3/1/22 Roster Bonus - 7M
2022 Salary - 15M
2023 Salary - 15M

Annual Performance Incentives- 13M

(only a tiny amount to earn based on individual play, mostly on total offensive performance, turnovers, wins, and especially playoff wins . . . maybe 3M for win superbowl, 3M for win AFC championship, 3M for reach AFC championship, and then the other 4M a mix of easier and not easy to attain regular season individual and team variables)

From an owners' perspective, that means Ben's 2021 cap hit is 6M and his guaranteed salary is 12M. If the Steelers reach the AFC championship, ONLY THEN does he hit the 19M. They go further, he makes more than 19M.

So, as an owner, you're saying 'okay, put your money where your mouth is and I'll do the same'.

It's a win-win-win for Rooney . . . Ben kills it, he wins. Ben sucks, then it's a 6M cap hit this year and only has 6M dead cap next year. Ben says NO, then he's got the high ground (after all, he offered to convert this last year to a 3 year, 49M deal with another 13M in annual incentives and it would be Ben who said NO).



Wake me up when Tomlin's defense doesn't get shredded in the playoffs. His pedigree as a 1 year DC was coaching the worst pass defense in football, and that one sure rears it's ugly head when the games matter most.

KIRK, isn't the problem with this though that it's incremental to the $22M he has locked and loaded, so he'd count $34M against the cap this year in your proposal (barf). I mean I guess that's still a $7M savings but BLECH.

Having said that we'll suck regardless so I would love the idea of being able to move on afterwards with no dead cap hit spread into future years.
 

xlm34

Registered User
Dec 1, 2008
2,811
2,751
If Rooney were willing to pay Roethlisberger 19M guaranteed this season, then it would take about 5 minutes to hammer out the details of that deal.

Rooney will push for a cut. Whether it's a cut no matter what or it's converting some of the roster bonus to a signing bonus and some to performance bonuses is the question, as is whether Ben will take anything less than the 19M guaranteed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it were me, as an owner, and I wanted (a) to give him a chance at another year, (b) given him a guaranteed pay cut, and (c) allow him to save face in some measure, then I suppose my only offer would be something like this:

Signing Bonus - 9M
2021 Salary - 3M
3/1/22 Roster Bonus - 7M
2022 Salary - 15M
2023 Salary - 15M

Annual Performance Incentives- 13M

(only a tiny amount to earn based on individual play, mostly on total offensive performance, turnovers, wins, and especially playoff wins . . . maybe 3M for win superbowl, 3M for win AFC championship, 3M for reach AFC championship, and then the other 4M a mix of easier and not easy to attain regular season individual and team variables)

From an owners' perspective, that means Ben's 2021 cap hit is 6M and his guaranteed salary is 12M. If the Steelers reach the AFC championship, ONLY THEN does he hit the 19M. They go further, he makes more than 19M.

So, as an owner, you're saying 'okay, put your money where your mouth is and I'll do the same'.

It's a win-win-win for Rooney . . . Ben kills it, he wins. Ben sucks, then it's a 6M cap hit this year and only has 6M dead cap next year. Ben says NO, then he's got the high ground (after all, he offered to convert this last year to a 3 year, 49M deal with another 13M in annual incentives and it would be Ben who said NO).



Wake me up when Tomlin's defense doesn't get shredded in the playoffs. His pedigree as a 1 year DC was coaching the worst pass defense in football, and that one sure rears it's ugly head when the games matter most.

Sure but I’m not talking about the playoffs. I don’t even think they’ll make the playoffs. But are they gonna go 4-12? Nah this team will still do enough to be mediocre.
 
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Night Shift

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This isn’t a defense of Tomlin and I know people hate to hear it, but the fact still is that he hasn’t had a losing season. And that includes a season with Rudolph and Duck as his starters. This is also a guy who’s won games with Mike Vick, Dennis Dixon, And Landry Jones.

In no way do I think they’re going to compete or even make the playoffs, but Ben is still going to have his moments and do enough to make us completely mediocre.

Kirk beat me to it.

Clown is a Defensive minded coach (So they say) NFL record 93 points against in 2 straight HOME playoffs games.

It's funny that the people claim Tomlin is the mastermind when the Deer and Ducks get them 500 and when heads have to Roll the OC always gets the blame. I never saw Fictner getting credit with the above.
 
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KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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KIRK, isn't the problem with this though that it's incremental to the $22M he has locked and loaded, so he'd count $34M against the cap this year in your proposal (barf). I mean I guess that's still a $7M savings but BLECH.

Having said that we'll suck regardless so I would love the idea of being able to move on afterwards with no dead cap hit spread into future years.

Assume NO bonuses are earned . . .

It's a 9M signing bonus and 3M salary this year.

That's a 6M cap hit this year and 6M dead money next year.

Only way he earns the 13M bonus, as I said, is 4M in tough regular season incentives (wins, turnovers, not passing yards) and 3M each for reaching the AFC champ, winning the AFC, and winning the SB.

Rooney can say 'if you win the SB, I'll pay you 25M this season'. What's Ben gonna say . . . 'but I'm not getting my 19M guaranteed'. So walk . . .

It's why I said it's a win-win-win for Rooney. Ben balks, and Rooney wins the high ground. Ben takes it and sucks, it's 6M this year and 6M dead money next year. Ben takes it and exceeds expectations or better, then you're talking paying 19M plus (which you'd be willing to do anyway to go that far into the playoffs).
 

xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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Kirk beat me to it.

Clown is a Defensive minded coach (So they say) NFL record 93 points against in 2 straight HOME playoffs games.

It's funny that the people claim Tomlin is the mastermind when the Deer and Ducks get them 500 and when heads have to Roll the OC always gets the blame. I never saw Fictner getting credit with the above.

And again this has nothing to do with playoff performances. When was the last time this team has been one of the worst teams in the league?
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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Lol true but they’ve had a lot of bad Decembers lately and it hasn’t translated to the next year yet.

Were any quite this bad, with so much offensive incompetence? Maybe I'm missing it.

This wasn't a bad December. This was "we got shellacked in every single game the Colts prevent-defensed us to a win."
 

Iggy Smalls

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Jun 6, 2010
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If anyone is looking for a good laugh Charley Casserly published his first mock draft. Good news! Justin Fields will drop to pick 24. A lot of other great gems in there too including Trey Lance going 4th overall and Najee Harris going 8th overall.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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If anyone is looking for a good laugh Charley Casserly published his first mock draft. Good news! Justin Fields will drop to pick 24. A lot of other great gems in there too including Trey Lance going 4th overall and Najee Harris going 8th overall.

I doubt the top 4 QBs last past pick 10.

CC always reminds me of if my weird uncle and Howard Cosell had a mutant baby.
 

ChaosAgent

Registered User
May 8, 2018
17,733
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If anyone is looking for a good laugh Charley Casserly published his first mock draft. Good news! Justin Fields will drop to pick 24. A lot of other great gems in there too including Trey Lance going 4th overall and Najee Harris going 8th overall.

Now that Ben's coming back it would be dumb to draft a QB.

And yes these mock drafts are just for the sh1ts the the clickz.

That said, people are very, very skeptical on Fields and I think rightly so. He threw some nice deep balls in the semifinal game but stunk in the finals. Also against Northwestern he was outright terrible.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he had a "dramatic QB fall" and Lance/Jones surpassed him at least.
 

Iggy Smalls

Registered User
Jun 6, 2010
867
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I haven't seen a lot of posts about Trey Hill out of Georgia. I think he's been very underrated throughout his career and would be a savvy pick anywhere between the 2nd round to 3rd. He played C last season but in the past has played G. If the team can sign a hypothetical fa like Finney who is a likely cut then I think having a multi position guy like Hill could be very valuable.

In my perfect world I would be a big fan of signing a low cost free agent C, trading down, and doing something like Travis Etienne and Trey Hill in the second. Maybe it can be argued Etienne is a first round talent, but I think if you miss out on Harris or Leatherwood there's better value in the second for who you may consider taking.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Rooney/Media

Ben is throwing so quickly - LOL
Ben's arm is almost as strong as it's ever been - LOL
Ben's in great shape! - LOL who's the comparison?
 
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