The Pittsburgher Thread - Steelers/Football talk

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Mr Jiggyfly

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A much higher % of quarterbacks hit now than back then.

The game is designed to be much simpler for them, uses their mobility (yes, every quarterback sans the GOAT and the Ben has it) and they are almost always pass-happy in college.

If you take 25 years to find a good QB these days, you suck as an organization period.

I disagree with this.

Look at all the teams looking for Qbs this draft... and many of them just drafted guys within the last few seasons.

Jets just took Darnold and are already thinking of dumping him. They have been looking for a franchise guy for like... 50 years now.

Cardinals used a 10th overall on a QB and the very next season they used their first overall to find a new guy.

Bears are looking for another QB again after blowing it with MT. I can’t even remember the last good QB they had and I’d probably do a double take looking at how many firsts they blew on the position.

It took the Bills what.. 20 years to find their next franchise guy between Kelly and Allen.

There are rumblings the Dolphins want to trade Tua and aren’t happy with him.... they haven’t found their guy since Marino retired.

Jags haven’t had a franchise type guy since they were in the AFC Central... and it’s taken a first overall to finally find him it looks like.

Eagles are likely moving on from Wentz who they thought for sure was their franchise guy a few years ago.

Rams just traded their life away to be rid of their former first overall QB.

Washington Football Team is looking for another QB again after blowing yet another first rounder on the position - bet they wish Rypien could come out of retirement.

Vikings last good QB was Culpepper, like a decade ago.
 
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ChaosAgent

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I disagree with this.

Look at all the teams looking for Qbs this draft... and many of them just drafted guys within the last few seasons.

Jets just took Darnold and are already thinking of dumping him. They have been looking for a franchise guy for like... 50 years now.

Cardinals used a 10th overall on a QB and the very next season they used their first overall to find a new guy.

Bears are looking for another QB again after blowing it with MT. I can’t even remember the last good QB they had and I’d probably do a double take looking at how many firsts they blew on the position.

It took the Bills what.. 20 years to find their next franchise guy between Kelly and Allen.

There are rumblings the Dolphins want to trade Tua and aren’t happy with him.... they haven’t found their guy since Marino retired.

Jags haven’t had a franchise type guy since they were in the AFC Central... and it’s taken a first overall to finally find him it looks like.

Eagles are likely moving on from Wentz who they thought for sure was their franchise guy a few years ago.

Rams just traded their life away to be rid of their former first overall QB.

Washington Football Team is looking for another QB again after blowing yet another first rounder on the position - bet they wish Rypien could come out of retirement.

I'm not saying you're going to be right all the time, but if you get 3-4 shots you probably won't blow it. The Cardinals are a great example of that.

Also you can do ok with a QB in the flotsam & jetsam of the 20-30 range on a cheap deal with a good team around him. What you can't do is when your QB ages himself into the 20-30 range but counts $41M against your cap. Of the non-Brady Super Bowls recently quite a few of these were a guy in that range playing well with a good team around him (Flacco, Foles, aging Peyton even).

The Steelers have already lost franchise QB Ben Roethlisberger. That guy is gone regardless of whether they want to give him a high-priced farewall tour.

Miami really screwed up with Tua over Herbert though.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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I'm not saying you're going to be right all the time, but if you get 3-4 shots you probably won't blow it. The Cardinals are a great example of that.

Also you can do ok with a QB in the flotsam & jetsam of the 20-30 range on a cheap deal with a good team around him. What you can't do is when your QB ages himself into the 20-30 range but counts $41M against your cap. Of the non-Brady Super Bowls recently quite a few of these were a guy in that range playing well with a good team around him (Flacco, Foles, aging Peyton even).

The Steelers have already lost franchise QB Ben Roethlisberger. That guy is gone regardless of whether they want to give him a high-priced farewall tour.

Miami really screwed up with Tua over Herbert though.

Well Jets, Bears and Dolphin fans would probably disagree with the bolded.

I’d like for you to be right, but it could take 25 years for the Steelers to draft a QB in round 1 just once, let alone 3-4 times.

They have to move on from Roth, that we agree on.

I just fear Colbert leaving before next spring and having Tomlin and AR2 left to bumble finding another franchise guy.
 

TimmyD

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I turned on Colin Cowherd while driving today. He was talking about Colbert's words. And then he threw out the name for the Steelers that is going to ring for you like a recording of @Jaded-Fan singing in the shower . . .

Sam Darnold

:arr:

Cowherd has a huge man crush on Sam Darnold. Like he did a segment on his show one day saying he would consider keeping Darnold and not drafting Lawrence when it looked like the Jets were going to get the number 1 pick. His infatuation with Darnold is insane
 

T1K

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Well Jets, Bears and Dolphin fans would probably disagree with the bolded.

I’d like for you to be right, but it could take 25 years for the Steelers to draft a QB in round 1 just once, let alone 3-4 times.

They have to move on from Roth, that we agree on.

I just fear Colbert leaving before next spring and having Tomlin and AR2 left to bumble finding another franchise guy.

You’re spot on with this. Sure, you can find a stopgap QB in the draft easily, but franchise guys are few and far between.

 

The Sodfather

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There’s nothing really groundbreaking in it. It basically just recaps everything Colbert said today. Two sides haven’t really negotiated, Ben needs to take a pay cut, due to the cap they’ll lose a lot of free agents so Ben wants to see what type of team they might be able to put together, yada yada.

He should just retire. He knows they have serious cap issues. He knows they are going to lose impact UFA's. He knows they don't have the money to sign new impact FA's, even if Khan figures out how to restructure his own damn contract. How the hell does he think they are going to be able to put together a competitive team? The Steelers are simply looking for a way to move on from Ben where they don't look bad, like they did with Troy and BA. Screw it. Just blow it up and start hoarding draft capital. I would listen to trade offers for every roster player. Concentrate on the offensive line this draft and spend next season evaluating what else is needed moving forward, especially with Rudolph.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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He should just retire. He knows they have serious cap issues. He knows they are going to lose impact UFA's. He knows they don't have the money to sign new impact FA's, even if Khan figures out how to restructure his own damn contract. How the hell does he think they are going to be able to put together a competitive team? The Steelers are simply looking for a way to move on from Ben where they don't look bad, like they did with Troy and BA. Screw it. Just blow it up and start hoarding draft capital. I would listen to trade offers for every roster player. Concentrate on the offensive line this draft and spend next season evaluating what else is needed moving forward, especially with Rudolph.

I agree with you... trade off some valuable guys and build up significant draft capital.

However, this org loathes a rebuild and it will never happen, very likely to the detriment of their future.
 

Jaded-Fan

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I am in the boat where I believe that the latest fade NFL has it wrong in what they are focusing on with elite quarterbacks. Well, not wrong exactly, but their order of what they are looking for is wrong. Everyone is now looking for an "Athelete". Meaning a quarterback who can scramble. Which is great if you can find one with everything else. But is a good way to get him killed too and limit his longevity.

What they need to be focusing on first is smarts, reads, progressions, accuracy, how quickly the ball gets out of the hand. Yes, you need a guy who has the arm strength to get the ball deep, so that kind of athleticism is important too. Size does make a difference, although many of the top quaterbacks are only slightly above six feet tall.

But you should be looking at quarterback intelligence and accuracy first. And not just assume that you can teach that to an athelete who is a running back who can throw.

I have said before there are two coming out this draft, Jones and Trask, who fit that mold. Jones looks like he will be gone by the time the Steelers pick. Trask though you might be able to get in round two. I would love it if he fell to there and was grabbed. Or if Jones is there at one I would not hesitate to take him.
 

ChaosAgent

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I am in the boat where I believe that the latest fade NFL has it wrong in what they are focusing on with elite quarterbacks. Well, not wrong exactly, but their order of what they are looking for is wrong. Everyone is now looking for an "Athelete". Meaning a quarterback who can scramble. Which is great if you can find one with everything else. But is a good way to get him killed too and limit his longevity.

What they need to be focusing on first is smarts, reads, progressions, accuracy, how quickly the ball gets out of the hand. Yes, you need a guy who has the arm strength to get the ball deep, so that kind of athleticism is important too. Size does make a difference, although many of the top quaterbacks are only slightly above six feet tall.

But you should be looking at quarterback intelligence and accuracy first. And not just assume that you can teach that to an athelete who is a running back who can throw.

I have said before there are two coming out this draft, Jones and Trask, who fit that mold. Jones looks like he will be gone by the time the Steelers pick. Trask though you might be able to get in round two. I would love it if he fell to there and was grabbed. Or if Jones is there at one I would not hesitate to take him.

You don't need a guy to be Lamar Jackson or even Josh Dobbs.

But you need a guy who can create extra time by moving around in the pocket and scramble for 8-10 yards when necessary. Once Ben could do that. Now he is slower than every single other member of the Steelers including the linemen.
 

xlm34

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He should just retire. He knows they have serious cap issues. He knows they are going to lose impact UFA's. He knows they don't have the money to sign new impact FA's, even if Khan figures out how to restructure his own damn contract. How the hell does he think they are going to be able to put together a competitive team? The Steelers are simply looking for a way to move on from Ben where they don't look bad, like they did with Troy and BA. Screw it. Just blow it up and start hoarding draft capital. I would listen to trade offers for every roster player. Concentrate on the offensive line this draft and spend next season evaluating what else is needed moving forward, especially with Rudolph.

Totally agree with you. They’re just wasting a year if Ben comes back. And it looks like his “I don’t care how much I get paid” is total BS.
 
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Jaded-Fan

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You don't need a guy to be Lamar Jackson or even Josh Dobbs.

But you need a guy who can create extra time by moving around in the pocket and scramble for 8-10 yards when necessary. Once Ben could do that. Now he is slower than every single other member of the Steelers including the linemen.

Trask is 6'5", a very big guy. He can, and does, run with the ball. But is no gazelle. Good enough.
 

xlm34

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Trask is 6'5", a very big guy. He can, and does, run with the ball. But is no gazelle. Good enough.

His mobility in the NFL is probably going to look a lot like Mason Rudolph’s. Both are big guys and I’d guess they’ll test similarly in things like the 40.
 
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Jaded-Fan

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His mobility in the NFL is probably going to look a lot like Mason Rudolph’s. Both are big guys and I’d guess they’ll test similarly in things like the 40.

He will easily get you a short yardage first down. Will be much like Rothlisburger early in his career.
 
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ChaosAgent

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Trask is 6'5", a very big guy. He can, and does, run with the ball. But is no gazelle. Good enough.

I watched some Trask highlights and I'm intrigued.

Question is whether he's better than a guy we'd get in '22 with a higher pick...not sure. I know this year's QB class is supposed to be better but these things tend to change.

I'd probably get the LT this year and then QB next year but that's just me.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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The Wentz trade will certainly change the board significantly where some of the top 6 QBs go now, but none of the big four will slip to the Steelers unfortunately.
 
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The Sodfather

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The Wentz trade will certainly change the board significantly where some of the top 6 QBs go now, but none of the big four will slip to the Steelers unfortunately.

Nope, and they don't have the draft capital to move up. I wonder how much, if any of Wentz' contract Philly had to eat?

There are going to be some lean years for the Steelers. The Rooneys' are fine with mediocrity, because they'll still rake in the cash. Not saying they don't want to win, but they'll be alright plugging along with run of the mill QB's until they can draft The Next One.
 

JTG

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Even when Ben got here, he didn't really break out until his 4th year, and I think one could argue he only became THE guy in 2009. If you take Ben and you throw him in a different situation, I think the result is so much different. QBs are drafted, thrown into a garbage situation where they have to run for their lives, and are then told they are busts because they couldn't get it done.

When Ben came in he had an elite offensive line, a highly competent run game, and elite defense. I don't think we are far off from having a team like that now. If we can find an offensive line, I'm comfortable bringing in a rookie QB and potentially having him start right away because the situation is good.

I don't know what kind of QB Sam Darnold could be professionally because he has literally been running for his life his entire career. From the top down, it has been a complete shitshow. I could see him going to an established team and maybe not lighting the world on fire, but doing enough to win games, a la Nick Foles.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Nope, and they don't have the draft capital to move up. I wonder how much, if any of Wentz' contract Philly had to eat?

There are going to be some lean years for the Steelers. The Rooneys' are fine with mediocrity, because they'll still rake in the cash. Not saying they don't want to win, but they'll be alright plugging along with run of the mill QB's until they can draft The Next One.

I believe Wentz’s cap hit is the biggest any team has ever had to eat...
 
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ChaosAgent

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Even when Ben got here, he didn't really break out until his 4th year, and I think one could argue he only became THE guy in 2009. If you take Ben and you throw him in a different situation, I think the result is so much different. QBs are drafted, thrown into a garbage situation where they have to run for their lives, and are then told they are busts because they couldn't get it done.

When Ben came in he had an elite offensive line, a highly competent run game, and elite defense. I don't think we are far off from having a team like that now. If we can find an offensive line, I'm comfortable bringing in a rookie QB and potentially having him start right away because the situation is good.

I don't know what kind of QB Sam Darnold could be professionally because he has literally been running for his life his entire career. From the top down, it has been a complete shitshow. I could see him going to an established team and maybe not lighting the world on fire, but doing enough to win games, a la Nick Foles.

I'm so intrigued by Darnold.

You're right about the bust rate of the top QBs because they so often go to garbage organizations/situations. Chicken or egg.
 

JTG

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I have a gut feeling Trask is going to tumble in this draft. He's just not the flavor GMs like in QBs. I think there is potential he slips into the 3rd round. I've followed this stuff a long time and how things are lining up for him, he is a prime candidate to be a guy sitting there in the back half of the draft and people are shocked by it.
 
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Jaded-Fan

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I have a gut feeling Trask is going to tumble in this draft. He's just not the flavor GMs like in QBs. I think there is potential he slips into the 3rd round. I've followed this stuff a long time and how things are lining up for him, he is a prime candidate to be a guy sitting there in the back half of the draft and people are shocked by it.

It would not shock me. He had his worse game in the bowl. Then missed the Senior Bowl. I do not see much difference between Jones and Trask. But because of how they ended their careers there could be a dramatic difference in draft position. I would be thrilled if the Steelers moved up a few slots in the third and took him if he does fall. He would even have a chip on his shoulder.
 

The Sodfather

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I have a gut feeling Trask is going to tumble in this draft. He's just not the flavor GMs like in QBs. I think there is potential he slips into the 3rd round. I've followed this stuff a long time and how things are lining up for him, he is a prime candidate to be a guy sitting there in the back half of the draft and people are shocked by it.

I've never been a student of the draft, I don't have the patience for it. However, I am somewhat conservative when I do look at the team and their needs. My feeling is they should go center/guard, tackle or the other way around. Then maybe RB. Having said that, where does taking Trask equal good value for the Steelers if they don't have to move to take him?
 
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