The perfect 7-man Defense

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Boxscore, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    So last night I was drafting an all-time defense for an all-time team. The basis: construct the ultimate 7-man defense. Selections not based on stats and career accomplishments per se; but on chemistry, skill sets and intangibles, etc. In other words, you would put this defense up against any team, any era, and it would prevail. If the best hockey team on another planet came to earth to play your team, who would be the defensemen you want to go to war with? My group:

    D1
    Bobby Orr - Ray Bourque

    D2
    Denis Potvin - Chris Pronger

    D3
    Scott Stevens - Viacheslav Fetisov

    7D
    Al MacInnis

    My group is unique in the respect that it is without 5 of the greatest defensemen of all-time in: Shore, Lidstrom, Harvey, Robinson and Kelly. Other ommissions include Coffey, Langway, Park and Chara. But I constructed this defense with a purpose. Every one of my players serve and purpose and are all-around defensemen with pretty much no weakness.

    Al MacInnis was selected over the likes of Lidstrom, Harvet et al due to his offense and powerful slapper. If my team gets a PP late in the game, Orr will be feeding Al Mac for that blistering one-timer. Physically my defense will dominate and give the opponent nightmares.

    There is nothing missing from my group. Offense? Check. Swift transition? Check. Shutdown defense? Check. Physical play? Check. Leadership? Check. Character? Check. Heart? Check. Nastiness? Check.

    Who would be your group of 7 and why?
     
  2. Reds4Life

    Reds4Life Registered User

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    Chara shouldn't even be mentioned.

    For me: (no limits)

    Orr Lidstrom
    Harvey Bourque
    Kelly Potvin

    Coffey (2nd best offensive defenseman ever)
     
  3. SealsFan

    SealsFan Registered User

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    Why have you omitted those three players from being selected?? Or am I misunderstanding your post - you're saying YOUR list doesn't have those names - but others can select whomever they want?
     
  4. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    I'm assuming you don't want Lidstrom, Harvey or Shore on anyone's teams. Oh well here goes:

    Orr-Bourque
    Potvin-Robinson
    Kelly-Coffey
     
  5. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    This is how I would have it... (without Harvey, Shore and Lidstrom). I don't exactly understand why Bourque is eligible and Lidstrom is not, but that's a story for another time.

    Bobby Orr - Serge Savard

    Raymond Bourque - Earl Seibert

    Larry Robinson - Vyacheslav Fetisov

    7th Al McInnis

    - Savard had better puck skills than both Pronger and Stevens. Not quite the offense, but the better puck skills. All in all, better intangibles than Pronger as well, and a better fighter as well. Savard would have been the ultimate Orr partner. Having Bourque and Orr on the same pairing would be redundant, to a certain extent.

    - Raymond Bourque could do pretty much anything with the puck, and the only thing really "lacking" with him (well, not really lacking, but anyways) would be size (nitpicking -- Bourque wasn't small at all). Here comes Earl Seibert, who was just really huge and solid as everyone defensively. Range can be useful (hence why I'd rather have him as opposed to Tim Horton).

    - Larry Robinson could dish out hits as well, but was certainly a better offensive player than Stevens. He peaked higher than Pronger as well. Fetisov makes a nice partner for Robinson, too. Robinson was more feared than Potvin, basically the same "hitter", and roughly had the same "weaknesses" -- which are pretty much covered by Fetisov. Potvin was a better player than Robinson, but that's the 3rd pairing so I was looking for some more intimidation.

    - McInnis is the perfect 7th as well.
     
  6. Reds4Life

    Reds4Life Registered User

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    I think he did not include those three just because he doesn't want them on his team, not that they are not eligible for everyone else's team.
     
  7. Chumley

    Chumley Registered User

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    A list of players I've seen play.

    Bobby Orr-Scott Stevens
    Larry Robinson-Paul Coffey
    Ray Bourque-Chris Pronger
    Denis Potvin
     
  8. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    This is exactly right. Those guys are ommitted from my team based on personal preference only. While I think Lidstrom is one of the 5 greatest defensemen ever, I would rather have guys like Potvin, Bourque, Pronger, Stevens and Fetisov who have more of an edge/physical element. Orr speaks for himself, and MacInnis is there to provide the best slapper in history from the point.

    But, by all means, please feel free to use Lidstrom, Harvey, et al on your lists.
     
  9. Ghost of David Bruce

    Ghost of David Bruce Registered Geezer

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    Orr - Stevens
    Potvin - Konstantinov
    Lidstrom - Bourque

    Shore

    Sure, why not.
     
  10. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Potvin would kill someone.
     
  11. Gobo

    Gobo Stop looking Gare

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    Orr - Stevens
    Bourque - Pronger
    Robinson - Coffey
    Macinnis
     
  12. mrhockey193195

    mrhockey193195 Registered User

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    Since the goal of this is obviously not to name our personal top 7 defensemen of all time, I'll give a crack at it:

    Orr-Langway
    Potvin-Lidstrom
    Bourque-Harvey

    7th: Kelly
     
  13. kmad

    kmad riot survivor

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    I hate to say this, and I can hear you all groan, but it really depends on the era.

    Most defensemen from 1990 and prior relied on a LOT of holding/hooking/etc. If we're playing in the modern era, penalizing the game as it is penalized today, guys like Shore and Seibert would turn into guys like Hatcher and Rathje, whereas Harvey/Lidstrom would flourish.

    Also if we were to play by 70s rules, Pronger might be the 2nd best possible defenseman (after Orr). His current game plus the added ability to slash/knee/rough with impunity? Un-friggin-stoppable.

    I think Chelios/Potvin would be great in any era.
     
  14. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    without paying attention to which side these guys played:

    orr harvey
    potvin robinson
    bourque savard (before he broke his legs)
    macinnis

    the first pairing is perfect. best defensive defenseman of all time paired with the greatest player of all time. you'd have as effective a breakout as could be imagined on either side of the ice.

    no one wouldn't be scared to go up against that second pairing. bruising, nasty, but also disciplined.

    i put together that third pairing for their even temperaments. i love a fiery guy like chelios as much as the next guy, but i also like the calming effect bourque and savard had on their teams. (question for the old-timers: how was savard defensively early in his career? did that come after he lost his mobility, or was he always a defensive stalwart?)

    and can you imagine being able to put out two of orr, potvin, bourque, and macinnis on any power play? you lose a bit of playmaking ability without orr, but i'd really have loved to see a bourque/macinnis pairing. the puck would never leave the zone, and you'd have to cheat on one of the points, which means the puck would be headed for the back of the net.
     
  15. LeBlondeDemon10

    LeBlondeDemon10 BlindLemon Haystacks

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    Shawn Cronin - Jim Kyte

    Sergei Bautin - Igor Ulanov

    Gord Donnelly - Dave Manson

    Dwight Scofield

    -
     
  16. Dalton

    Dalton Registered User

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    Orr Harvey - simply the best
    Coffey Bourque - more offence
    Potvin Robinson - shut down and more offence
    Savard - many, many players for #7. I like this guy.
     
  17. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    I don't see why you have to compromise on skill for this exercise whatsoever. The best six defensemen of all-time make a perfect team and complement eachother well. I'm not going to throw Craig Ludwig in there because I need an elite shot blocker, or Bill White to get some more PK skill. Overall, this is the best you can get:

    Orr - Harvey
    Shore - Lidstrom
    Bourque - Potvin
    Fetisov
     
  18. SealsFan

    SealsFan Registered User

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    :laugh:
     
  19. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    I agree that these 7 are the best all-time, at least for me. But I wanted the nasty and fear factors with Stevens and Pronger. Lidstrom is flawless, other than he is strictly a tactician and brings no physicality to the ice. In a 7-game playoff war, I want Stevens and Pronger on my club. And if it means giving up Lidstrom and Harvey to do it, that is a tough decision that needs to be made.

    But in terms of rankings, I love your 7 guys, seventies!
     
  20. Boxscore

    Boxscore #OldNHL

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    Sprague Cleghorn - Eddie Shore

    Barclay Plager - Ulf Samuelsson

    Bryan Marchment - Darius Kasparaitis

    Vladimir Konstantinov

    :yo: I win!! :handclap:
     
  21. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Shore alone brings enough nastiness for all 6 of them. But if that's not enough for you, Potvin's physical play and intimidation aren't that far off from Stevens, and Harvey had efficient physical play and calculated dirtiness on his side.
     
  22. 85highlander

    85highlander Registered User

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    Not to diminish Potvin or Harvey's physical play in any way, but just wanted to remind those who may have been too young to remember Orr play that he lead all of the Big, Bad Bruins in total cumulative PIMs during '66-'76.

    Per game, he actually had a higher PIM than Potvin -- Orr 1.45pg and Potvin 1.28pg.

    And perhaps a meaningless stat, but Bobby Orr also had MORE fighting majors in his 600+ games than Gretzky, Lemieux, and Howe had in their COMBINED 4,000+ games.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  23. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    All true.

    I know Orr could be nasty when he needed to be. However, ideally, you would like him to not have to be. So if he's just 4th on the toughness depth chart, the team is looking pretty good!
     
  24. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    I agree era would matter as the rules and conditions wee different, your Pronger example is especially good in this reguard.

    I'm going to assume that you not watched a Detroit game in the last 20 years?

    Off the top of my head my list would be pretty close but with that Detroit guy in for Coffey


    I think chemistry might matter a little bit but I can see both sides of your argument and the one that follows although Lidstrom's lack of phycial play should not take away from his incredible impact on the teams and games he plays in.

    Heck the plus 7 or 8 he had in the all star game...well not that it really counts for anything. (I am joking here)

     
  25. Reverend Mayhem

    Reverend Mayhem Fire this man

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    Orr - Harvey
    Bourque - Pronger
    Robinson - Shore
    Coffey
     

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