The Perception of Empty Seats (Little Caesars Arena making seats black to hide them)

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by cutchemist42, Oct 9, 2018.

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  1. cutchemist42

    cutchemist42 Registered User

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    Red Wings' Little Caesars Arena to swap all 18,600 of its red seats for black ones

    First thought was no thought really.....I didnt really know if this would be effective or not for what the purpose is or if its truly a problem?

    I mean, I've seen the explanation that multi-coloured seats make empty seats "look" better and can see the results on tv. Im not sure how straight black will work.

    And going back, if we are talking about modern arena design, while the revenues produced from this arena style are probably big......as a fan Im sure at that point I would like a Euro style arena more. Heard Glenn Healy on Jeff Blair's show saying the reason the NHL doesn't love the Euro games is because there is slightly too much emphasis on the "regular" fan.

    So yeah, going back to it, Im not entirely sure how I feel about this.
     
  2. cupcrazyman

    cupcrazyman Chex Lemeneux

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    I thought Hockey Town sold out every game ? :sarcasm:
     
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  3. AdmiralsFan24

    AdmiralsFan24 Registered User

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    Taxpayers better not foot the bill for that. The bright red seats were ugly though. I get they're Red Wings colors but seats need to be dark or they attract attention away from where the attention should be.
     
  4. BKIslandersFan

    BKIslandersFan Registered User

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    Lol what are they gonna do with relatively new seats then?
     
  5. Katie Connauton

    Katie Connauton Banned

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    They're taking out the seats and replacing them with new ones? Why not just reupholster them?
     
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  6. MikeCubs

    MikeCubs Registered User

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    They have so far. The problem is the concourses are by far the best of any facility in any sport. People don't want to sit in the seats. Even the 1st game last year looked empty because of people exploring the concourses. The 1st event ever in the arena a Kid Rock concert had the same problem.

    Red Wings explain all the empty seats for LCA opener

    As far as the Pistons they are on the road to nowhere, not bad enough to get a high pick, not good enough to make the playoffs so that's part of their problem. Wings are rebuilding too so as the season went on maybe not everyone used their ticket(s).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    They even re-purposed the old OLYMPIA Stadium sign
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  7. StreetHawk

    StreetHawk Registered User

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    The seats are bright red but Boston has yellow ones.

    Doesn’t seem to be an issue for them. Empty seats are what they are. Wings fans may have been spoiled with team success over a long stretch but who knows if they were price gouged over that time. If teams are asking fans to support the team during a rebuild are they pricing things accordingly?

    Like if a top level restaurant went from organic produce to regular ones and charged the same price would their customers be happy? Product on the ice isn’t as good, so price accordingly.

    Most likely they have to do sections at a time. So they need a stock a some new ones before they can ship the others back to be redone. There’s a cost to taking them out shipping them redoing them and then shipping back to reinstall. Sometimes going new is the cheaper option. But I agree it seems like a waste and someone cost the team a lot of money to redo something.
     
  8. LatvianTwist

    LatvianTwist Global Moderator

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    Does anyone really care about empty seats besides a small amount of fans? I'd imagine as long as the tickets are sold, no one that matters cares if they're actually even go to the game, much less if they're in their seat from puck drop to the final horn.
     
  9. Dirty Old Man

    Dirty Old Man Mistaken for magic

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    Fans in big air quotation marks there...disgruntled ones, mostly.
     
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  10. powerstuck

    powerstuck Nordiques Hopes Lies

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    The way I see it is like this. I personally wouldn't shell 5000$ on season tickets to attend only a handful of games. I mean, if I'm to be a ST, I would honestly look to attend 30 out of 41 home games. If not, then I will rather chose a select few games and take a 5-10 games pack.

    Besides, every market has resellers. And sometimes soldout arena with empty seats will prevent a legit fan from attending because the prices are skyrocketing (due to being soldout).

    In the end, the teams have to keep an eye on that and adjust. And we've seen teams do it. A year or two ago I think NYR and Boston fans received email saying their renew right was being revoked because they were re-selling more than they were attending. If you don't keep an eye on it, and don't do nothing, at some point you will lose to many ST's at once and times will get rough quickly.
     
  11. joelef

    joelef Registered User

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    If this was a southern a team people would be calling to move this team to QC . Hyprocrisy and double standards at its finest
     
  12. LeftWingLocked

    LeftWingLocked Registered User

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    Oh come on with the myth about the fans wandering the concourse. The place is empty. A combination of bad team and price gouging and you have a ghost town.
     
  13. TheAustrian

    TheAustrian Registered User

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    Exactly, I do not really see the purpose of this either.

    Financially it does not make sense, it only costs money to buy new seats. It would probably be cheaper to buy mannequins and put them into the empty seats.

    Fan experience will not improve. Even if the arena looks less empty, you can feel that it is empty. So I don't see any improvement for the fans at the arena.

    On TV it might look better, but honestly, why does it matter? When I am watching a game on TV, I couldn't care less how many people are actually at the arena. And as mentioned above, noise level and general atmosphere won't improve by changing from red to black.
     
  14. DowntownBooster

    DowntownBooster Registered User

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    While the empty seats may not be a determining factor in the outcome of the game, the optics of such a large number of them is one that would cause many viewers to wonder why. In the case of Detroit, it's not an isolated incident but one that goes back to when the Wings played in Joe Louis Arena. For a number of years they used to list the attendance as 20,066 but any time they showed the highlights (or a game was televised) there would be swaths of empty seats. The story would always be the same with individuals pointing out that they were corporate seats and that people were in the concourse. It just seemed unusual that it appeared to be particular to Detroit amongst the American O6 teams.

    :jets
     
  15. Bookie21

    Bookie21 Registered User

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    Toronto has the same issue. The corporate suits don't sit in their seats, they socialize in the lounges. It's becoming embarrassing
     
  16. cutchemist42

    cutchemist42 Registered User

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    I also believe Florida had a corporate section that stood out on TV badly

    Personally I agreed that empty seats doesnt impact my watching on TV. The teams know the tickets are sold but also know they created an environment where being in your seat is not the best thing to be doing.

    Does seeing empty seats on TV really matter financially then?
     
  17. DowntownBooster

    DowntownBooster Registered User

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    Toronto's situation is a little different in the sense that the bulk of the lower bowl is corporate seats and we all know the reasons behind them being empty at certain times during the game. However, with Detroit the empty seats are not just in the lower bowl but in pockets spread throughout the arena making it hard to gauge if they are indeed corporate seats, unsold seats or no shows. Also, we all know that Toronto is the corporate capital of Canada (which again explains the empty seats during part of Leafs games) whereas in the U.S. it's New York that is the corporate capital and not Detroit which makes one wonder why there are so many empty seats at Red Wings games.

    :jets
     
  18. LeHab

    LeHab Registered User

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    Story does not tell what will happen to existing seats. When Canadiens moved out of Le Forum, seats were sold to fans. This is somehow of a different situation as the sentimental value may not be the same but still an opportunity here to recoup some of the cost for a piece of memorabilia.
     
  19. Butch 19

    Butch 19 Go cart Mozart

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    If the concourse is so awesome, where's everyone in the concourse pic in post #6? - the bathrooms? :laugh:

    and we're supposed to think "look - many Detroit sports fans are on an architectural arena walk - during the games that they spent hundreds of $$ for tix."

    And how many times to you need to walk it? - every game?
     
  20. Bondurant

    Bondurant Registered User

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    Is it really hypocrisy? Tickets in Detroit are sold but not used. Some of the southern teams can't sell tickets. Money, and lots of it, is being made in Detroit.
     
  21. zetastrike

    zetastrike Registered User

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    Not parking money, not merchandise, not concessions. Those "real fans" in Detroit are depriving the Wings of a lot of money by not showing up.
     
  22. Bondurant

    Bondurant Registered User

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    The issue discussed was ticket sales. You're also assuming everyone buys merchandise, concessions and parking. Since '10 I've attended 5-10 NHL games per year. During that span I can count on one hand the number of times I've purchased merchandise and parking combined. In most cases I also eat beforehand due to ridiculous concessions prices at pro sporting events.
     
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  23. LeftWingLocked

    LeftWingLocked Registered User

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    How can you say they are sold when you go to ticketmaster and there are tons of tickets available. Try buying a section of 50 seats in Toronto, it isn't happening. In Detroit, it's possible. Give the ticket sales agent a call, and you'll be surprised what you can get for a group package. The Red Wings are dead right now.
     
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  24. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    In fairness to Detroit, let's not act like the exact same thing hasn't happened in Boston and Chicago in recent memory. Or that it's not happening in Ottawa right now.

    There are literally a handful of cities in each sport where tickets will sell no-matter-what. Some of those are the small hardcore cities where the team has a cult-like presence (Edmonton, Green Bay) and some are larger cities where mass demand just overwhelms all other factors (Toronto in hockey, Dallas in football). Everywhere else, an extended streak of bad teams will lead to empty seats. Even if they're being sold to corporations in some cases, there's a reason people aren't showing up to use the tickets they were given for free by their employers. People don't want to spend their time watching a terrible team lose again and again.
     
  25. Svechhammer

    Svechhammer 2 Flags 1 Cup

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    I mean hell, Pittsburgh and Washington were ghost towns inside the arenas around the turn of the century.

    Nobody wants to pay to watch bad hockey. Nobody wants to attend bad hockey. It doesn't really matter the arena or the city, if the team is bad enough long enough, people aren't going to go.
     
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