The Penguins once Crosby/Malkin leave

rfournier103

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It's a slight exaggeration
But Crosby and Fluery- were 1OV
Staal- and Malkin went 2OV

In like 4 years imagine having those picks for the last 4 Drafts and what that team would look like.

Pretty significant combo imagine Mathews and Mcdavid with a couple of the 2OV picks in the other 2 seasons ?

I was being sarcastic.

I know enough of their draft history to know that they had some very high draft picks that set them up pretty well for the run they’re still on.

I can only imagine what the Oilers or Maple Leafs would look like with another #1 overall and two number twos overall.
 

Number 57

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Dec 21, 2004
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You’re missing a few players on your list, but quantity isn’t a good representation here. See my above post. I don’t think the Pens have been a great drafting team, but you can’t dismiss them when they’ve been trading picks or prospects away for a more immediate impact.

Fair enough but that is also one of my points. The Penguins are not expected to draft high or collect youngsters in the next 3-4 years. That's not gonna change from the current situation. That is why even though it's very early to say, there's a high likelyhood of the team being very, very depleted by 2022 if Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang leave. As in bottom-of-the-barrel depleted.
 

K Fleur

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I was being sarcastic.

I know enough of their draft history to know that they had some very high draft picks that set them up pretty well for the run they’re still on.

I can only imagine what the Oilers or Maple Leafs would look like with another #1 overall and two number twos overall.

The Oilers picked #1 overall 4 times from 2010-2015. Plus 3rd overall in 2014.
 

Penguin Suited Up

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Fair enough but that is also one of my points. The Penguins are not expected to draft high or collect youngsters in the next 3-4 years. That's not gonna change from the current situation. That is why even though it's very early to say, there's a high likelyhood of the team being very, very depleted by 2022 if Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang leave. As in bottom-of-the-barrel depleted.
I’m not sure what your point is. Everyone has known this would happen with the Pens and Sid/Geno since day one. They’ve cashed in on generational talent and won 3 Cups. When they retire, the Pens will have to rebuild. So they’ll focus more on drafting and developing to acquire talent. Pretty basic stuff.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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I'm slightly confused by the thrust of this argument.

But if it is that Pittsburgh have been bad at developing and drafting post-2005 and therefore will make a mess of the rebuild...

... that kinda doesn't make sense because a lot of the guys from that era are gone. It no longer matters which to us which PMD Shero will waste his 1st rounder on now. Hell, its pretty likely a lot of the guys responsible now won't be around for the rebuild either. Since the start of the 15-16 season, we've replaced our scouting director, at least one other scout, an assistant GM, and just about every position on the coaching staff from top to bottom except Martin's. Which includes the player development coaches, obvs. Likelihood we won't replace a bunch by the time we're no longer competitive is pretty low.

Which is a shame, as I think the team's done a decent job considering the number of picks traded. But all irrelevant anyway.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Fair enough but that is also one of my points. The Penguins are not expected to draft high or collect youngsters in the next 3-4 years. That's not gonna change from the current situation. That is why even though it's very early to say, there's a high likelyhood of the team being very, very depleted by 2022 if Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang leave. As in bottom-of-the-barrel depleted.

Sounds perfect to me.

It’s almost impossible to win a cup in today’s NHL without building a team around a minimum of a couple top five picks.

Would rather sit through some lean years, see them gather top picks and rebuild, then be stuck in the endless loop of mediocrity.

However, I do have to call you out on ragging on the Pens drafting. They have an almost completely new team of scouts under JR, than Shero.

They also haven’t had a first rounder in four years under the new scouting team, which makes it extremely difficult to find any good players.

But, those first rounders haven’t been wasted, and were used as leverage to add important pieces to their b2b cup runs and chase a threepeat.
 

Penguin Suited Up

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Sounds perfect to me.

It’s almost impossible to win a cup in today’s NHL without building a team around a minimum of a couple top five picks.

Would rather sit through some lean years, see them gather top picks and rebuild, then be stuck in the endless loop of mediocrity.

However, I do have to call you out on ragging on the Pens drafting. They have an almost completely new team of scouts under JR, than Shero.

They also haven’t had a first rounder in four years, which makes it extremely difficult to find any good players.

But, those first rounders haven’t been wasted, and were used as leverage to add important pieces to their b2b cup runs and chase a threepeat.
This is exactly why the OP is disingenuous. Calling the Pens an awful drafting team when they have had minimal opportunity to draft quality relative to league average makes no sense. They’ve done an excellent job of leveraging assets on hand to win now in recent history.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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If the pens suck in 5 years so be it. It will all have been worth it and more. 3-5 years of crap is worth 15+ years of incredible hockey. I'd rather they leverage assets to make the most of Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang while they are still capable and continue making cup runs and hopefully get another 1 or 2 cups out of it.

When it is all over I'd rather follow the same model and be terrible for a few years and pick up some high end talent. Granted it's close to impossible that the pens will luck out again and get Lemieux/Jagr/Crosby/Malkin caliber players, but top of the draft is where all the great teams build from.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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This is exactly why the OP is disingenuous. Calling the Pens an awful drafting team when they have had minimal opportunity to draft quality relative to league average makes no sense. They’ve done an excellent job of leveraging assets on hand to win now in recent history.

Ya it’s a little hard to find talent when you draft at the back of each round and don’t have your first rounders in four straight years. Actually make that five since Kapanen was moved as well, but he looks to be doing pretty well with the Leafs though.

So ya, it’s ridiculous to criticize them moving those picks because they leveraged it into b2b cups. I could see if they had nothing to show for it, but they were the first team to win b2b cups in two decades.

Despite not having their tops picks, they keep bringing guys through the pipe that have helped them win cups, and if Riikola works out as well as he looks right now, their scouts should get big credit for that, even though he wasn’t drafted.
 
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Garbage Goal

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Can we not do this for any team, looking 5+ years into the future?

"Hey, let's assume all the 30 something's leave, all the 25 somethings drop to 3rd line status, and no new kids come up"

Not every team is built almost entirely on two generational centers going into their 30’s nor is every team bad at drafting or have an awful prospect pool. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description.

The OP asks a good question that people tend to overlook for some reason, I guess because the Pens are still a playoff team. Still, it’s probably a question more relevant to the Pens board considering how far the forecasting is here.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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I also think the idea the Pens need to trade some of their aging core to retool so they can keep on winning misses the mark a bit. One, no matter who you trade those players for, you're not getting equal or better players. So you're not improving the Pens' chances in the short term.

So it's best to just ride the way, see how many more Cups the current core can win, then worry about rebuilding from scratch when they're no longer capable of being elite players (or are retired; whichever it may be).
 

Penguin Suited Up

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Not every team is built almost entirely on two generational centers going into their 30’s nor is every team bad at drafting or have an awful prospect pool. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description.

The OP asks a good question that people tend to overlook for some reason, I guess because the Pens are still a playoff team. Still, it’s probably a question more relevant to the Pens board considering how far the forecasting is here.
Not the right team to ask this question for when nobody in the organization cares what happens past 5 years from now. This team will keep trading draft picks until Crosby and Malkin can’t carry it anymore.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Not every team is built almost entirely on two generational centers going into their 30’s nor is every team bad at drafting or have an awful prospect pool. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description.

The OP asks a good question that people tend to overlook for some reason, I guess because the Pens are still a playoff team. Still, it’s probably a question more relevant to the Pens board considering how far the forecasting is here.
I think you're overstating the pens lack of drafting and development ability. They've brought up numerous support players over the years from their AHL team that they would not have been able to win without. Yes the pens were gifted Crosby/Malkin, but they've been run extremely well top to bottom over the years. They have the active playoff streak record in both the NHL and AHL right now at 12 and 16 years respectively.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

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Not every team is built almost entirely on two generational centers going into their 30’s nor is every team bad at drafting or have an awful prospect pool. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description. In fact, they’re the only team that fit that description.

The OP asks a good question that people tend to overlook for some reason, I guess because the Pens are still a playoff team. Still, it’s probably a question more relevant to the Pens board considering how far the forecasting is here.

Their mid round picks are the reason they were able to build enough depth to win the back to back Cups.

I know they're not "household names", but the Pens don't win those Cups without the contributions from guys like Guentzel, Rust, Murray, Maatta, and Sheary (although he was a UFA college signing).
 

Garbage Goal

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I think you're overstating the pens lack of drafting and development ability. They've brought up numerous support players over the years from their AHL team that they would not have been able to win without. Yes the pens were gifted Crosby/Malkin, but they've been run extremely well top to bottom over the years. They have the active playoff streak record in both the NHL and AHL right now at 12 and 16 years respectively.

You’re gonna have to mention names to prove your point here. They’re widely regarded as having one of the worst prospect pools in the league and it hasn’t produced many notable players in recent years.

Their NHL team has Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Murray (and Fleury previously). So I don’t see what relevance it has to their prospect pool and drafting ability in the here and now. Playoffs in general don’t mean much because of how many teams make it, but the AHL playoffs don’t have a ton to do with prospect pool strength either. Guys like Leighton win goalie of the year awards and guys like T.J. Brennan are among the best scorers at their position.

It’s a mix of prospects and tweeters/guys not good enough for the NHL. More prospects play in junior leagues, high school/college, and overseas than they do in the AHL.

It’s pretty simple though, if you disagree they have one of the worst prospect pools then start naming blue chippers. If you think they aren’t a bad drafting team in the here and now then name some blue chippers, youngsters on the NHL team, etc.
 

kladorf2005

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Apr 20, 2018
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Not every team is built almost entirely on two generational centers going into their 30’s
Agreed with every word in that statement except the word, 'entirely'. Malkin/Crosby are huge pieces but they aren't doing it without young talent around them.

nor is every team bad at drafting or have an awful prospect pool.
Based on what? Wilkes-Barre hasn't missed the playoffs since 2002, they won their division in 2017, they have had .600+ win pct since 2013, all while constantly pulling up talent to cup winning teams (Murray, Rust, Guentzel, etc.)
 

Clatartar

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Dec 28, 2014
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We’ve gone through the generation x days (Rico Fata anyone?). I guess we should be plan on generation y?
 

Garbage Goal

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Their mid round picks are the reason they were able to build enough depth to win the back to back Cups.

I know they're not "household names", but the Pens don't win those Cups without the contributions from guys like Guentzel, Rust, Murray, Maatta, and Sheary (although he was a UFA college signing).

You can take literally any one of those players out and they still win at least one Cup, in all likelihood multiple. If you remove Crosby or Malkin they likely don’t win any.

I don’t understand the need for Pens fans to be so defensive when it comes to people saying their team is built on those two. You have multiple Cups and regardless of how you got them you had two of the three best players of their generation be there for it. I don’t get the need to act offended or downplay their importance and ability when the topic comes up.

It’s not hard to get depth. Literally every team has depth, all you need to do is draft and you’ll get players like Rust sometimes. It’s not indicative of drafting ability. To that point, what kind of player and how many points do you think a guy like Guentzel gets playing with a Schenn or Stastny instead of Crosby/Malkin?
 

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