The Penguins have 4 regulation wins in 20 games.

banks

Only got 5/16
Aug 29, 2019
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They should be buyers. Add a competent defender, then wait for Crosby and Malkin to catch fire for another Cup run.

Fans are way to eager to rebuild.
 
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ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
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If I were them I'd take the PR hit from fans and try to get as much as I could for those 3 guys and do a full rebuild. I don't think they're winning another championship with them so might as well accelerate the rebuild/retool rather than go through a long overhaul like Detroit. That'll never happen though.
I get the point you also make about what Detroit did but who has this method EVER worked for?

It seems nonstop the thing people say to so ans yet there's no examples of actual success from the tear down rebuild and trade stars. Yet teams that typically had their stars around when young stars and other pieces joined had a more positive impact on those teams rebuilding
 
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AhosDatsyukian

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Sep 25, 2020
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I get the point you also make about what Detroit did but who has this method EVER worked for?

It seems nonstop the thing people say to so ans yet there's no examples of actual success from the tear down rebuild and trade stars. Yet teams that typically had their stars around when young stars and other pieces joined had a more positive impact on those teams rebuilding

Well, how often has it been attempted in the NHL? I can't think of many cases but I also admittedly haven't been following the NHL super closely for a long time. It's definitely worked in other sports.
 

GreatSaveEssensa

The Dark Side Of The Goon
Feb 16, 2016
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Manitoba
A long overhaul is inevitable. Their top guys are still reasonably young and they could still contend with a minor retool. Trading their core at this point would be really premature, in my opinion.

Five years from now, to give them one last opportunity at a cup? Maybe.

The point of trading the core is to obtain as many high end prospects and/or high picks as they could. They will get that and then some for them now or next year, but the longer they delay the less they will be getting in return which would be defeating the purpose of a proper rebuild. In my opinion of course.
 

ClydeLee

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Mar 23, 2012
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Well, how often has it been attempted in the NHL? I can't think of many cases but I also admittedly haven't been following the NHL super closely for a long time. It's definitely worked in other sports.
What other sports too? Cause I bring this up and seen so many failures of the NFL or NBA by doing that. Results of tear downs sometimes take a decade later to recover from to gain success to.

People saw the Hawks and Crosby Pens as that but their rises really weren't out of tear downs. If anything counts as the Hawks tear tear down it was the late 90s and all their picks or returns on that all amounted to nothing.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDo

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Aug 3, 2014
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They don’t need any more D. They have an abundance of D. They need one more winger to play with Malkin. Then when Zucker gets healthy they will have the makings of a good bottom 6 line with two out of Zucker/McCann/Kapanen + leftover from Jankowski/Sceviour/Rodrigues. Malkin will get the new guy + one of Zucker/McCann/Kapanen. D is fine, Sid’s line is fine, Bluegar’s line is fine, the goaltending is what it is, has been trending up and hopefully can be average. Fix Malkin’s line and the fourth line and Pittsburgh could do damage.
 

AhosDatsyukian

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Sep 25, 2020
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What other sports too? Cause I bring this up and seen so many failures of the NFL or NBA by doing that. Results of tear downs sometimes take a decade later to recover from to gain success to.

People saw the Hawks and Crosby Pens as that but their rises really weren't out of tear downs. If anything counts as the Hawks tear tear down it was the late 90s and all their picks or returns on that all amounted to nothing.

A notable recent example would be the Boston Celtics trading away Pierce and Garnett. I'd have to think of others but frankly, there are so few teams that are ever in this position and even less who do make the decision to "tear it down" instead of stretching it out that it'd be hard to argue one way or another whether it would work or not due to such a tiny sample size.

What are some of the "so many failures of the NFL or NBA by doing that"?
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
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A notable recent example would be the Boston Celtics trading away Pierce and Garnett. I'd have to think of others but frankly, there are so few teams that are ever in this position and even less who do make the decision to "tear it down" instead of stretching it out that it'd be hard to argue one way or another whether it would work or not due to such a tiny sample size.

What are some of the "so many failures of the NFL or NBA by doing that"?
I'm not sure what your examples of success are. I guess the Cubs come to mind yet I know so many Cubs fans who were tearing it apart though it worked. But people have been praising the Rangers and 76s... for what? You can't assume it's going to result in success because the get high picks part is working out for you.

I think of major failures like the Bulls rebuild, Knicks I think tried after trading Melo, and not so much an NBA fan but NFL has had recent failing going on like Colts or Raiders which felt very tanky trade off and sell to try recover but it's not been working out. I don't know the history of how much it has really happened to a big extent. But it seems to not be a frequent success story in my book of winning you a championship in the next decade moreso than keeping some stars while you still rebuild.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
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Kind of mind blowing to me that people are suggesting they trade Crosby, Malkin AND Letang.

Marleau and Thornton were both north of 35 when they led SJS to the cup final in 2015-16. Not sure why people think it’s impossible that Crosby and Malkin could do the same with some changes around them.
 

Rodgerwilco

Entertainment boards w/ some Hockey mixed in.
Feb 6, 2014
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A long overhaul is inevitable. Their top guys are still reasonably young and they could still contend with a minor retool. Trading their core at this point would be really premature, in my opinion.

Five years from now, to give them one last opportunity at a cup? Maybe.
I agree totally with bold. The core aging doesn’t mean they can’t still contend with tweaks around them.
 

MarkusNaslund19

Registered User
Dec 28, 2005
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Why? The amount of legit prospects/young players they could get from teams in win-now mode for Crosby, Malkin and Letang would easily expedite the rebuild, and without even needing to rely as much on their own scouts to make sure they hit on the picks. If they traded those 3 away, yeah a couple years missing the playoffs would be a given but I think they could pretty easily avoid a long overhaul by getting a ton of assets for those guys. Whereas the Red Wings dynasty just fizzled out and now they're going on 5 years missing the playoffs and that'll likely wind up being at least 6 or 7 years.
The NHL isn't a video game. Loyalty means something. Those guys got you 3 cups and (in the case of Crosby and Malkin) brought you back from the precipice of potential franchise extinction. If you have to be bad for a few years to honour them instead of doing 'le epic rebuild' by trading franchise icons, I think you do it.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Jimmy really did a number on that team.

The team is actually fairly well constructed. The biggest question marks in Matheson and Ceci have both been solid. Kapanen has 10 pts in 17 games. Rust and Guentzel are producing. Jarry has stabilized his game after a rough start and Teddy Bleuger has one less point than Evgeni Malkin.

With the production Blueger is providing this team should not be sunk by Malkin having a rough start to his season. The issue is the entire roster is winning games off individual skill not a team effort.

The biggest issue is the coaching. With the players the Penguins have there is no reason for them to be 26th on the PP and 29th on the PK. Special teams are where a coach can make his mark.

Bringing in Todd Reirden is certainly a puzzling decision and I questioned it from day one.
 

Beauner

Registered User
Jun 14, 2011
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The team is actually fairly well constructed. The biggest question marks in Matheson, Ceci, and Jarry have all been solid. Kapanen has 10 pts in 17 games. Rust and Guentzel are producing.

The bigger issue is the coaching. With the players the Penguins have there is no reason for them to be 26th on the PP and 29th on the PK. Special teams are where a coach can make his mark.
another good point. With even completely average special teams, they likely have between 2-4 more regulation wins.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDo

Registered User
Aug 3, 2014
4,401
3,876
Jimmy really did a number on that team.
695012014

a039feddd6b6dc69b4bf794b995d33de.jpg
 

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