The Out of Town Thread (Part 47)

[DAChampion]

Formenton is an excellent player. Big speedy player that did phenomenal in the AHL. Meanwhile our 1st rounder forgot how to play hockey after 3 years in the NCAA. Formenton hasn't even played much in the last couple years, he would arguably be our best prospect. Batherson is also a great young player. I think Chlapik can be a decent player. Wolanin looked good last year, got injured this year. They have drafted f*** all before 2008 which is why I said recent years.

Their guys are better because they are simply better, not because of position. Guys like Borowiecki and Grant are also solid NHLers even though they don't meet your criteria, especially lately. Also all the Habs players besides Gallagher and Subban were drafted ages ago and none of them are even in the league. So ya, the Sens have done a much better job, especially lately since the Habs have like nobody to show for it that's playing today.

Formentum was extremely visible in the games against the Rocket. I think that his name was among the handful most mentioned by the announcers.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

WTF! For a moment I thought it was Benchbrawl chiming in from the Fortress of Solitude but it is Elliot Friedman!!

 

[the]

from '03 to '16 guys with over 300 NHL games and 150 + pts, plus goalies with over 300 games,

Stone, Hoffman, Silfverberg, Pageau, Dzingel, Smith, Lehner, Elliott

vs

Subban, Gallagher, Streit, Grabo, S.Kosty, Halak (Lats just missed at 147 pts)

C’mon man...the important years here is from 2010-20.

We haven’t done shit the last 10 years meanwhile we have Bergevin saying the future is bright.

The future was bright from 2003-07 and we won f*** all.

 

[Toene]

.

There's also the '11 draft where they like boston had 3 1st rounders, Zibanejad 6th OA, Noesen 21 OA, and Puempel 24OA. Although looking back at the draft it's looking pretty weak overall. They could of had Scheifele or Couturier who went in the next 2 picks but who could have predicted that Zibanejad would go from looking decent with the Sens as he had back to back 20 goal seasons in his last 2 years with the Sens but he had as many goals this year (41) as he had those last 2 years with the Sens and in just 57 games. That's insane, at 26/27 he's now one of the better goal scorers in the league and has really broken out with NYR these last 2 seasons.

Crazy how confidence and being well surrounded can make a difference. Imagine if we had someone of Panarin's caliber to play with Suzuki or Kotka.

 

[The Great Weal]

Crazy how confidence and being well surrounded can make a difference. Imagine if we had someone of Panarin's caliber to play with Suzuki or Kotka.

Zib mostly played with Kreider and Buchnevich this season

 

[Demon Wolf]

Not had a true first line center since Koivu was in his prime 13 years ago. Let alone a great second line center.

That's not true though, Plekanec was a great #2C in his prime.

 

[PaulD]

That's not true though, Plekanec was a great #2C in his prime.

Some people would agree with you.

 

[DAChampion]

That's not true though, Plekanec was a great #2C in his prime.

The way that I read the post was that he meant a 1C and 2C together, so having a 2C by himself doesn't cut it.

The closest that the Habs gave come was in 2010 when Gomez and Plekanec both got ~60 points.

 

[angusyoung]

WTF! For a moment I thought it was Benchbrawl chiming in from the Fortress of Solitude but it is Elliot Friedman!!

He's gonna star in the re-boot of Fiddler on the roof!

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

WTF! For a moment I thought it was Benchbrawl chiming in from the Fortress of Solitude but it is Elliot Friedman!!

He looks like an old-timey hobo waiting for the next train to hop on. If I were any good at photoshop I'd add a bindle and an open can of beans to complete the effect

 

[peate]

bindle

Today's Word of the day.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Today's Word of the day.

Am I the only one around here who has read Mark Twain? :0

 

[Per Sjoblom]

Zib mostly played with Kreider and Buchnevich this season

That is correct, he played with Panarin on the power play and in extra time.

 

[The Great Weal]

That is correct, he played with Panarin on the power play and in extra time.

As great as Draisaitl was this year, for me the Hart belongs to Panarin.

 

[montreal]

Formenton is an excellent player. Big speedy player that did phenomenal in the AHL. Meanwhile our 1st rounder forgot how to play hockey after 3 years in the NCAA. Formenton hasn't even played much in the last couple years, he would arguably be our best prospect. Batherson is also a great young player. I think Chlapik can be a decent player. Wolanin looked good last year, got injured this year. They have drafted f*** all before 2008 which is why I said recent years.

Their guys are better because they are simply better, not because of position. Guys like Borowiecki and Grant are also solid NHLers even though they don't meet your criteria, especially lately. Also all the Habs players besides Gallagher and Subban were drafted ages ago and none of them are even in the league. So ya, the Sens have done a much better job, especially lately since the Habs have like nobody to show for it that's playing today.

Formenton certainly kicked our ass in Laval this year same for Batherson and Chlapik had a good year as well.

But it's funny how the Sens are great except for the 1st round, and only recently but we can't draft other then pre '08. Evans was great in the AHL this year after a terrible start, Primeau started out great, hit a rough patch and then was on fire to end the season. Romanov crushed the WJC's back to back years. Norlinder gets named the best prospect in Allsvenskan, Harris was one of the best U-20 D's in the NCAA and had only 4 less points then the Sens 1st round pick Bernard-Docker although it helped that North Dakota was 3rd overall in win % out of 60 and in 1 more game they had 37 more goals then NU.

I mean don't get me wrong, the Sens appear to be able to draft and develop better then us, but to say they are great and can draft but we can't, I don't see it.

 

[ahmedou]

I'mma take team A. They're exciting players to watch.

And you?

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

I'mma take team A. They're exciting players to watch.

And you?

View attachment 350930

Team A, it's not even close.

 

[The Great Weal]

Formenton certainly kicked our ass in Laval this year same for Batherson and Chlapik had a good year as well.

But it's funny how the Sens are great except for the 1st round, and only recently but we can't draft other then pre '08. Evans was great in the AHL this year after a terrible start, Primeau started out great, hit a rough patch and then was on fire to end the season. Romanov crushed the WJC's back to back years. Norlinder gets named the best prospect in Allsvenskan, Harris was one of the best U-20 D's in the NCAA and had only 4 less points then the Sens 1st round pick Bernard-Docker although it helped that North Dakota was 3rd overall in win % out of 60 and in 1 more game they had 37 more goals then NU.

I mean don't get me wrong, the Sens appear to be able to draft and develop better then us, but to say they are great and can draft but we can't, I don't see it.

I wouldnt say they have done poorly in the 1st round. Chabot is an excellent pick. White is a solid player. Zibanejad is a stellar pick. Of course theres also Karlsson and Foligno. They have had a few blunders like every team. However, they make up for it with the rest of the draft by drafting guys like Stone and Hoffman.

Meanwhile we have made a mistake with every 1st rounder from 2009-2015. I'll excuse the Scherbak pick because we didnt miss out on anyone else, but the other 6 1st rounders didnt work out.
Evans is already 24, I don't see him becoming much.

As for other guys, I need to see how they perform in the NHL before judging. Remember that Poehling was the WJC MVP, didnt really have poor years in NCAA(some would say he had great years), but this year he sucked big time.

They have drafted more players that are still playing and better ones, they are obviously much better than us in that department.

 

[montreal]

I wouldnt say they have done poorly in the 1st round. Chabot is an excellent pick. White is a solid player. Zibanejad is a stellar pick. Of course theres also Karlsson and Foligno. They have had a few blunders like every team. However, they make up for it with the rest of the draft by drafting guys like Stone and Hoffman.

Meanwhile we have made a mistake with every 1st rounder from 2009-2015. I'll excuse the Scherbak pick because we didnt miss out on anyone else, but the other 6 1st rounders didnt work out.
Evans is already 24, I don't see him becoming much.

As for other guys, I need to see how they perform in the NHL before judging. Remember that Poehling was the WJC MVP, didnt really have poor years in NCAA(some would say he had great years), but this year he sucked big time.

They have drafted more players that are still playing and better ones, they are obviously much better than us in that department.

I didn't say they did poorly in the 1st round, as it was you that said,

The Sens have done an excellent job outside of the first round

I used great instead of excellent but other then that I just re-posted what you said. It's just funny how you seem to bend over backwards to pat the sens on the back and then trash Timmins at every turn.

Yes they did great getting Karlsson and Chabot, Tkachuk is looking much better then I would have expected after putting up the same production as Poehling at the same age. Foligno was a good get late in the 1st as well. They have had their share of misses in Lee ('05), O'Brien ('07), Cowen ('09), Noesen/Puempel ('11), Lazar ('13), and we'll see what Bowers and Brown turn into but already looks like they missed on some really great players which if it was Timmins you would be calling for his head.

We drafted Price, Pac, Subban, Sergachev, compared to Karlsson, Chabot, Tkachuk, Foligno. The problem of course is that outside of Sergachev they were years ago like Karlsson and Foligno. Kotka certainly didn't have the year we hoped so that certainly makes it look worse since one pick later they get someone who so far is a much better player. We'll have to see how that ones plays out over the years.

As for Evans he just turned 24 this month, he's one year older then Chlapik who you like but he's had 3 pro seasons to Evans 2. Evans led his team in scoring in his 2nd year, 2nd in scoring his rookie year, Chlapik led his team in scoring his rookie year and 5th in his 2nd year. He looks better in the NHL but so should he as he's a 48th OA pick compared to Evans being a 207th OA. My point wasn't really to compare them just that he's doing very similar things to Chlapik in the AHL and NHL in their 1st 2 pro seasons. Granted Evans being a year older helps him and I don't expect him to be as good since he's already exceeded expectations for a 207th OA pick imo.

I think the sens and Habs are closer in drafting then you would like to admit but we'll see how it continues to play out of course and clearly they out develop us but a monkey could out develop MB based off the choices he's made so far. That said I clearly put more importance on developing then you or others do so naturally I would think that gives the sens and edge while putting one arm behind Timmins back so to speak.

 

[ahmedou]

Team A, it's not even close.

In Team C there's a future Canadiens Hall of famer and Legend

 

[The Great Weal]

I used great instead of excellent but other then that I just re-posted what you said. It's just funny how you seem to bend over backwards to pat the sens on the back and then trash Timmins at every turn.

Ya I give credit for the Sens with their record while Timmins has shit to bed hard, of course I'll trash him. Just because you refuse to blame him that much for the shit record isn't my fault.

They have had their share of misses in Lee ('05), O'Brien ('07), Cowen ('09), Noesen/Puempel ('11), Lazar ('13), and we'll see what Bowers and Brown turn into but already looks like they missed on some really great players which if it was Timmins you would be calling for his head.

Stop bullshitting everything man. No, I wouldn't call for Timmins head if he drafted Chabot, Stone, Hoffman, Zibanejad, Pageau...etc in recent years. I'd be doing cartwheels but instead we got 55 point Gallagher and Sergachev since 2008. I'm not surprised that you always go to attack me to defend Timmins at all costs, it's just getting incredibly pathetic. Only Rakell is a big miss after Noesen/Puempel, but they also got a f***ing star powerforward in that same year. But hey, keep going back to 2005 and further when I keep saying recent years. For O'Brien the next big miss was Subban and Simmonds(a round later). Cowen was terrible, but they got Silverberg, Lehner AND Hoffman which more than makes up for it. Timmins can miss out on players from time to time, it's totally normal to do so, but at least the Sens make up for it.

As for Evans he just turned 24 this month, he's one year older then Chlapik who you like but he's had 3 pro seasons to Evans 2. Evans led his team in scoring in his 2nd year, 2nd in scoring his rookie year, Chlapik led his team in scoring his rookie year and 5th in his 2nd year. He looks better in the NHL but so should he as he's a 48th OA pick compared to Evans being a 207th OA. My point wasn't really to compare them just that he's doing very similar things to Chlapik in the AHL and NHL in their 1st 2 pro seasons. Granted Evans being a year older helps him and I don't expect him to be as good since he's already exceeded expectations for a 207th OA pick imo.

I said I think he can be a decent player. I also think Evans can be a decent player. I don't know why that's all you took from that. Not surprising how you ignored that Formenton looks so much better than Poehling and he was drafted later in the same draft year.

I think the sens and Habs are closer in drafting then you would like to admit but we'll see how it continues to play out of course and clearly they out develop us but a monkey could out develop MB based off the choices he's made so far. That said I clearly put more importance on developing then you or others do so naturally I would think that gives the sens and edge while putting one arm behind Timmins back so to speak.

Habs and Sens are close because they are both NHL teams in the Atlantic division. In terms of drafting and development, the Sens blow the Habs out of the water. For great players, they drafted Chabot, Zibanejad, Stone, Hoffman, Karlsson, Foligno, Lehner while we drafted Subban, Pacioretty, McDonagh and Price and their guys are substantially better at the moment. That same monkey could also outperform Timmins from 2008-2015 and his atrocious picks.

 

[Whitesnake]

Team A, it's not even close.

Wow, same for me. Not even close....at all.

 

[montreal]

Ya I give credit for the Sens with their record while Timmins has shit to bed hard, of course I'll trash him. Just because you refuse to blame him that much for the shit record isn't my fault.


Stop bullshitting everything man. No, I wouldn't call for Timmins head if he drafted Chabot, Stone, Hoffman, Zibanejad, Pageau...etc in recent years. I'd be doing cartwheels but instead we got 55 point Gallagher and Sergachev since 2008. I'm not surprised that you always go to attack me to defend Timmins at all costs, it's just getting incredibly pathetic. Only Rakell is a big miss after Noesen/Puempel, but they also got a f***ing star powerforward in that same year. But hey, keep going back to 2005 and further when I keep saying recent years. For O'Brien the next big miss was Subban and Simmonds(a round later). Cowen was terrible, but they got Silverberg, Lehner AND Hoffman which more than makes up for it. Timmins can miss out on players from time to time, it's totally normal to do so, but at least the Sens make up for it.


I said I think he can be a decent player. I also think Evans can be a decent player. I don't know why that's all you took from that. Not surprising how you ignored that Formenton looks so much better than Poehling and he was drafted later in the same draft year.


Habs and Sens are close because they are both NHL teams in the Atlantic division. In terms of drafting and development, the Sens blow the Habs out of the water. For great players, they drafted Chabot, Zibanejad, Stone, Hoffman, Karlsson, Foligno, Lehner while we drafted Subban, Pacioretty, McDonagh and Price and their guys are substantially better at the moment. That same monkey could also outperform Timmins from 2008-2015 and his atrocious picks.

that's my point though, you go out of your way to praise the Sens when they clearly have made plenty of mistakes in the draft as well. I could see saying they did better but you said they did great while we suck big time yet the stats don't reflect that. So then you said more recently which of course would then change things since the Habs clearly shit the bed after their great '07 draft.

We have done better drafting goalies with Price and Halak vs Lehner and Elliot.

They made 2 great picks in Karlsson and Chabot, we made 1 great one in Subban, a really good one in McDonagh, what's looking like could end up being very good in Sergachev. Both Subban and Karlsson have declined quicker then expected.

At forward is where they clearly have done well and we have not. Zibanejad, Stone, Hoffman, Foligno, is clearly better then Pac, Gallagher.

I just think it's closer then saying they are great and we suck

 

[The Great Weal]

that's my point though, you go out of your way to praise the Sens when they clearly have made plenty of mistakes in the draft as well. I could see saying they did better but you said they did great while we suck big time yet the stats don't reflect that. So then you said more recently which of course would then change things since the Habs clearly shit the bed after their great '07 draft.

We have done better drafting goalies with Price and Halak vs Lehner and Elliot.

They made 2 great picks in Karlsson and Chabot, we made 1 great one in Subban, a really good one in McDonagh, what's looking like could end up being very good in Sergachev. Both Subban and Karlsson have declined quicker then expected.

At forward is where they clearly have done well and we have not. Zibanejad, Stone, Hoffman, Foligno, is clearly better then Pac, Gallagher.

I just think it's closer then saying they are great and we suck

Well no shit they aren't perfect, no team in the history of sports is, they aren't psychics seeing into the future. Their record is absolutely did great. I immediately said that I meant recently, but even comparing those players with your criteria, they beat us badly.

As for the players you mentioned in your posts, I have compared them in 2 ways:
1) By number of players:
Stone+Zib>Pacioretty+Gally
Hoffman+Karlsson+Chabot>Subban+McDonagh+Sergachev
Price+Halak>Lehner+Elliot
Foligno>Nothing

Keep in mind that I'm going pretty lightly with the ">". The Sens beat us pretty badly here, not close whatsoever.

2) By position:
Offence: Zibanejad+Stone+Hoffman+Foligno>Pacioretty+Gally
Defence(difficult to assess): If we are going by performance right now, I'd give the Sens the advantage Karlsson(who is still on pace for close to 60 points, the decline is nowhere near as bad as Subbans and McDonaghs)+Chabot>McDonagh+Subban+Sergachev. If we are going by peak, then it's the Habs(although that's only because they have an extra player, not a fair way when you measure overall drafting).
Goaltending: It's the Habs, but it's a lot closer in the present as Lehner has been playing very well in the past 2 years.

This option seems like the weaker one to me because their offense is so much better than ours(right now or peak) that the difference in goaltending and defense doesn't make up for it whatsoever. You are comparing 4 players to 2, then 3 to 2, it doesn't make sense, might as well do overall impact.

So ya, they are substantially better than us no matter how you slice it. Oh and don't forget about Formenton, he'd arguably be our best prospect right now, and we had the chance to draft him.

You were dead wrong about me calling for Timmins head if he had that record, I'd be his biggest fan.

 

[montreal]

Well no shit they aren't perfect, no team in the history of sports is, they aren't psychics seeing into the future. Their record is absolutely did great. I immediately said that I meant recently, but even comparing those players with your criteria, they beat us badly.

As for the players you mentioned in your posts, I have compared them in 2 ways:
1) By number of players:
Stone+Zib>Pacioretty+Gally
Hoffman+Karlsson+Chabot>Subban+McDonagh+Sergachev
Price+Halak>Lehner+Elliot
Foligno>Nothing

Keep in mind that I'm going pretty lightly with the ">". The Sens beat us pretty badly here, not close whatsoever.

2) By position:
Offence: Zibanejad+Stone+Hoffman+Foligno>Pacioretty+Gally
Defence(difficult to assess): If we are going by performance right now, I'd give the Sens the advantage Karlsson(who is still on pace for close to 60 points, the decline is nowhere near as bad as Subbans and McDonaghs)+Chabot>McDonagh+Subban+Sergachev. If we are going by peak, then it's the Habs(although that's only because they have an extra player, not a fair way when you measure overall drafting).
Goaltending: It's the Habs, but it's a lot closer in the present as Lehner has been playing very well in the past 2 years.

This option seems like the weaker one to me because their offense is so much better than ours(right now or peak) that the difference in goaltending and defense doesn't make up for it whatsoever. You are comparing 4 players to 2, then 3 to 2, it doesn't make sense, might as well do overall impact.

So ya, they are substantially better than us no matter how you slice it. Oh and don't forget about Formenton, he'd arguably be our best prospect right now, and we had the chance to draft him.

You were dead wrong about me calling for Timmins head if he had that record, I'd be his biggest fan.

I said they win but you are said they were great and we can't draft, I think that's wrong and that it's closer then saying they are great and we suck. I don't agree that Formenton would be our best prospect but I would need to see more of him. He certainly was great in the AHL this year but as impressive as he was so was Primeau, Caufield, Romanov.

I don't believe you on the Timmins thing either, you really seem to have a major hate on the guy, those are some pretty big misses by the Sens that many would be up in arms about as McAvoy, Boeser, Jokiharju would cause so much trouble for the Habs for years to come to add to Chabot, Formenton, etc.. It would be justified to a degree since if he drafted those players on top of what they have he likely could have the makings of a possible contender in a few years when you add in all those top picks they are sitting on.

Either way we'll see how good the Sens drafting of late has been and how it matches up to the Habs.