OT: The Other Sports Thread IX - Go Astros go!

[donghabs98]

I know some people like to hate on Toronto in general but the Raptors winning is probably one of the best things to happen to our country in terms of sports for quite some time. Short-term, throughout the playoffs and for a short while after, the retail industry will be very busy moving Raptors gear. I just saw a dude drop $10k at a sports store downtown. It was crazy.

More importantly though, the Raptors winning will stimulate more interest in the sport in Canada. Perhaps major cities like Montreal and perhaps Vancouver again may get clubs, but if even 1% of the 6 to 10 year olds who watched the playoffs and pick up the game after, this could mean more Canadians playing at the NBA-level 10-15 years from now.

Hockey will still be popular, but given the costs of the sports, this is great for those who want to play sports but can’t afford hockey.

Hockey will always be our number 1 sport but I am concerned the future of the sport in terms of talent and reach. The economics of playing hockey arent favourable as it requires a huge long term commitment if you want to succeed in it. From equipment to registration fees to addition things such as camps and summer leagues, it adds up. Not to mention the time commitment needed which takes away time for a person to generate income. Compared to the committment required for soccer and basketball, I can see a long term effect on registration numbers and in turn talent produced when it comes to hockey, basketball, soccer.

It's something Hockey Canada has started to try and address and will need to continue to moving forward.

 

[Runner77]

My point was that revenues drive coverage. That isn't unique to SNET, TSN or any other national sports network.

ESPN reaches tens of millions of Americans yet do you think their coverage of the Lakers is proportionate to the one of the Grizzlies? Are the Rays talked about as often as the Yankees? The Patriots versus the Titans? Just some random examples above, but those all are driven by the amount of eyeballs in a given TV market. Nothing else is taken into account when it comes to defining

I could also mention NBC and their "national" hockey coverage, but I won't because it's obvious to any hockey fan here.

None of that is fair, but it's the reality we live in. I don't see the need to waste my breath complaining about that fact of life. Especially when none of it really matters all that much. You want options? You can find them rather easily this day and age when it comes to your preferred flavour of sports coverage.

Heck, last night I was watching camel racing on YAS Sports. You wouldn't believe the amount of bias they had against my favorite camel there.

Oh, I got your point from the get-go. I don't know that their revenues are as preponderant from Southern Ontario as they are from the ROC. I have not researched their ratings figures or how they break down, however, they are offering their services across the ROC and I suspect their revenues from these subscriptions are significant.

I don't know what ESPN does and how relevant it is to how TSN and Sportsnet operate. ESPN doesn't broadcast in Canada save via syndication on the radio as far as I know, so it's not relevant to the discussion.

It's my prerogative to choose to call out coverage that is too heavily skewed in favor of the local market of broadcaster where that broadcaster is offering services in my broadcast territory and charging me for them. I don't care if you think it's fair or not, it's my call to make. And I'll call them out when warranted. If I want to "waste my breath" bringing it up, well it's my business. I don't need any lessons about what is or isn't a fact of life. Thanks anyhow.

 

[Miller Time]

Hockey will always be our number 1 sport but I am concerned the future of the sport in terms of talent and reach. The economics of playing hockey arent favourable as it requires a huge long term commitment if you want to succeed in it. From equipment to registration fees to addition things such as camps and summer leagues, it adds up. Not to mention the time commitment needed which takes away time for a person to generate income. Compared to the committment required for soccer and basketball, I can see a long term effect on registration numbers and in turn talent produced when it comes to hockey, basketball, soccer.

It's something Hockey Canada has started to try and address and will need to continue to moving forward.

By which metric do you consider hockey to be our number 1 sport?

By at least one important metric (participation), that already is not the case... It's looking like just a matter of time before other important metrics (advertising revenue, attendance, viewership) also get eclipsed by soccer and possibly baseball & basketball (depending on expansion).

 

[Habsawce]

The amount of people that are out for the parade is insane. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. I was close to taking my 5 year old, kind of glad I didn't.

 

[sandviper]

The amount of people that are out for the parade is insane. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. I was close to taking my 5 year old, kind of glad I didn't.

Yeah, I was planning to take a couple hours off work today but my friend who is in Nathan Phillips Square right now says the team aren’t even there yet and it’s just jammed packed.

I’ll just watch it on TV. At least it’s nice today.

Edit: They just announced three major subways are shut down now. Too many people downtown.

 

[LaP]

By which metric do you consider hockey to be our number 1 sport?

By at least one important metric (participation), that already is not the case... It's looking like just a matter of time before other important metrics (advertising revenue, attendance, viewership) also get eclipsed by soccer and possibly baseball & basketball (depending on expansion).

It depends what you consider participation. Participation in a ice hockey league in an arena versus all people who play dunno soccer. Yeah hockey is probably not number 1. It cost nothing to play soccer or Basketball. Participation of everyone playing hockey including dek hockey and street hockey without equipment other than a stick and maybe a jockstrap i'm not so sure about it. But that's almost impossible to quantify as there's countless of dek hockey leagues pretty much one for every company out there in Canada. I've never been in a company not having an organized dek hockey "league" of 2 or more teams.

 

[Miller Time]

It depends what you consider participation. Participation in a ice hockey league in an arena versus all people who play dunno soccer. Yeah hockey is probably not number 1. It cost nothing to play soccer or Basketball. Participation of everyone playing hockey including dek hockey and street hockey without equipment other than a stick and maybe a jockstrap i'm not so sure about it. But that's almost impossible to quantify as there's countless of dek hockey leagues pretty much one for every company out there in Canada. I've never been in a company not having an organized dek hockey "league" of 2 or more teams.

Open gyms plus summer courts I would bet make up a far greater number of "unofficial participation" numbers than dek league's or street hockey volume.

If anything, if there was a way to quantify the full hours spent by Canadians in the three sports, Hockey would likely fall an even more distant third.

 

[GoodKiwi]

I've also heard that in terms of youth participation both soccer and basketball are ahead of hockey as it stands. The economics of why that is have already been mentioned, but I also wanted to point one other thing out.

Hockey requires one technical skill to be proficient at the sport - skating. If you do not skate by the age of five your path to playing hockey at the highest level is pretty much closed. That could be a deterrent for some, especially new immigrants to the country. Where as there are numerous successes in both basketball and soccer with kids picking those sports up at a much older age and becoming players of the highest caliber. Siakam, for example, didn't start playing basketball until he was 13.

 

[417]

Imagine hockey wasn't so cost-restrictive and a traditionally, exclusive sport...the types of athletes that they could be introducing to the game of hockey?

 

[the valiant effort]

Imagine hockey wasn't so cost-restrictive and a traditionally, exclusive sport...the types of athletes that they could be introducing to the game of hockey?

Rectifying this lies only in the hands of the Canadian "branch" of the NHLPA, IMO.

As much as public health will always be a key issue for all levels of government, they've got better things to spend cash on in that regard than subsidizing minor hockey.

 

[Harry22]

I don't see how Kawhi will leave after this season. If I'm him, I sign a 1+1 deal to win another championship. I mean, who in the East can beat the Raptors besides maybe the Bucks or 76ers?

 

[417]

I don't see how Kawhi will leave after this season. If I'm him, I sign a 1+1 deal to win another championship. I mean, who in the East can beat the Raptors besides maybe the Bucks or 76ers?

I mean...it's that or sign with the Clippers

He said he didn't want to stay in San Antonio partly because they wanted him to take on a different role, so I don't see him going to the Lakers to play 3rd fiddle to LBJ & AD.

Best move, like you said, sign a 1+1 deal

 

[Harry22]

I mean...it's that or sign with the Clippers

He said he didn't want to stay in San Antonio partly because they wanted him to take on a different role, so I don't see him going to the Lakers to play 3rd fiddle to LBJ & AD.

Best move, like you said, sign a 1+1 deal

To me, playing in Toronto is perfect for him. He is a superstar not craving media attention and he does not have to deal with the American media until May-June. Now, I see why he would want to go home with the Clippers but there is no guarantee of winning anything there and he could always go in 2-3 years.

 

[LaP]

I've also heard that in terms of youth participation both soccer and basketball are ahead of hockey as it stands. The economics of why that is have already been mentioned, but I also wanted to point one other thing out.

Hockey requires one technical skill to be proficient at the sport - skating. If you do not skate by the age of five your path to playing hockey at the highest level is pretty much closed. That could be a deterrent for some, especially new immigrants to the country. Where as there are numerous successes in both basketball and soccer with kids picking those sports up at a much older age and becoming players of the highest caliber. Siakam, for example, didn't start playing basketball until he was 13.

Youth participation is closely tied to the cost. Even when i was young in the 80ies we were playing soccer at school and never ever (like 0% of the time) dek hockey or hockey cause it was costing too much. Even dek hokey you have to buy goalies equipment. Kids did not give a shit about soccer but this is what we were doing at school. Dek hockey is also a lot rougher on the surface and building. Lot of schools decided to stop renting for dek hockey because of the damage.

Also skating is ice hockey. Again dek hockey is still hockey and anyone can play that. We have a french guy in our league who had never played hockey before when he joined the league and in 2 years he became a very good dek hockey player. Was rough the first year he had to learn the rules and the game but he's a good athlete he figured it out quickly.

As someone who did sports a lot (mainly soccer, hockey (ice and dek), baseball, skying and tennis) and stopped only very recently i can tell you it's very easy to find people to play dek hockey and there's as many leagues as their's companies out there.

 

[Redux91]

I don't see how Kawhi will leave after this season. If I'm him, I sign a 1+1 deal to win another championship. I mean, who in the East can beat the Raptors besides maybe the Bucks or 76ers?

Everyone keeps bringing up the Bucks and 76ers but.... those two teams could of VERY well peaked last year as well (even more impressive to the raptors playoff run), jimmy Butler is most likely gone, so they will never be as good as they were last year already
And you should see the list of Bucks free agents lol, gonna be hard to keep that group together, Giannis certainly hasnt peaked as a player, but that team just might of mini-peaked last year until a new window opens after giannis max deal

 

[kgboomer]

I don't see how Kawhi will leave after this season. If I'm him, I sign a 1+1 deal to win another championship. I mean, who in the East can beat the Raptors besides maybe the Bucks or 76ers?

It's not that simple, both he and his wife are from California and with 2 kids. At the end of the day, it will be a family decision.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Youth participation is closely tied to the cost. Even when i was young in the 80ies we were playing soccer at school and never ever (like 0% of the time) dek hockey or hockey cause it was costing too much. Even dek hokey you have to buy goalies equipment. Kids did not give a **** about soccer but this is what we were doing at school. Dek hockey is also a lot rougher on the surface and building. Lot of schools decided to stop renting for dek hockey because of the damage.

Also skating is ice hockey. Again dek hockey is still hockey and anyone can play that. We have a french guy in our league who had never played hockey before when he joined the league and in 2 years he became a very good dek hockey player. Was rough the first year he had to learn the rules and the game but he's a good athlete he figured it out quickly.

As someone who did sports a lot (mainly soccer, hockey (ice and dek), baseball, skying and tennis) and stopped only very recently i can tell you it's very easy to find people to play dek hockey and there's as many leagues as their's companies out there.

Playing dek hockey won't open any routes for you to become a professional hockey player though. Which was kind of my point earlier. I'm not taking anything away from what you said (I don't know anything about dek hockey, but I'm sure it's a fine rec activity), just pointing out that my focus was different, even if I failed to express it properly.

 

[Adriatic]

Perfect time for Kawhi to leave. He departs as a champ in Toronto and a god with no hard feelings. Then he also gets to back home and play for a really good team that will contend immediately with him.

 

[peate]

I've also heard that in terms of youth participation both soccer and basketball are ahead of hockey as it stands. The economics of why that is have already been mentioned, but I also wanted to point one other thing out.

Hockey requires one technical skill to be proficient at the sport - skating. If you do not skate by the age of five your path to playing hockey at the highest level is pretty much closed. That could be a deterrent for some, especially new immigrants to the country. Where as there are numerous successes in both basketball and soccer with kids picking those sports up at a much older age and becoming players of the highest caliber. Siakam, for example, didn't start playing basketball until he was 13.

Also, an Ice surface. Not always readily available, even in Canada and the US. Whereas a field or school yard are plentiful all over the world. Soccer's great advantage, all you need is a ball.

 

[kgboomer]

I went at least 5 times during our Habs parade on Ste-Catherine, and I've never seen anything close of this.

 

[kgboomer]

Trudeau seems the happiest guy in the world, selfies all around.

 

[Runner77]

Yeah, I was planning to take a couple hours off work today but my friend who is in Nathan Phillips Square right now says the team aren’t even there yet and it’s just jammed packed.

I’ll just watch it on TV. At least it’s nice today.

Edit: They just announced three major subways are shut down now. Too many people downtown.

Still going on now with several networks carrying it. The crowd is massive.

 

[417]

This parade is just insane...I bet even the guys on the Raptors who have won, Leonard, McCaw...never saw anything like this.

I'm sure Kawhi's mind is already made up (he's leaving) but man, how can this not make you think twice?

 

[Runner77]

This parade is just insane...I bet even the guys on the Raptors who have won, Leonard, McCaw...never saw anything like this.

I'm sure Kawhi's mind is already made up (he's leaving) but man, how can this not make you think twice?

Saw some STAY signs as they announced him on stage. I hope there's a way to hang on to him a little longer. Would be a shame.

 

[Redux91]

This parade is just insane...I bet even the guys on the Raptors who have won, Leonard, McCaw...never saw anything like this.

I'm sure Kawhi's mind is already made up (he's leaving) but man, how can this not make you think twice?

I mean even his uncle (agent) was holding up his hand "five more years!" with Kyle Lowry... i certainly dont think his mind is made up lol, Raps can offer 5 years 190 mill, Clippers can only offer 140 mill. pretty big difference

I honest to god believe Kawhi and his group are simply going to try and maybe ask the Raptors "look ...im not craaaazy about a 5 year commitment, its no secret id like to go back home one day... so how bout a 2, 3 year deal instead?", however something like that goes with a franchise is to be determined tho lol

This whole "max deal" business is kind of blowing up in the NBA's faces (or it will soon) as its nearing the semblance that its MAX DEAL OR NO DEAL for some of these players...and a lot arent even top 10 top 20 players in the NBA..

The parade has been something to behold tho, definitely one of the most special ive seen in quite some time, it reminds me of the 2004 Red Sox parade when they had THREE MILLION people there.