OT: The Other Sports Thread IX - Go Astros go!

[JianYang]

Federer is a treasure.

I'm not sure if these legendary players being highly competitive into their mid to late 30s is going to become a trend, but he's the gold standard for it right now.

 

[Toene]

That's not true at all, and most are also Blue Jay fans as well. Same goes for most Montrealers not just Habs fans. Usually the only ones who aren't fans are the ones with an unreasonable hate for Toronto. You know who I mean, those who are part of that ridiculous minor political faction that lives in Quebec .

Wrong. It's mixed really. It's a huge bandwagon thing in recent years to brand a Toronto team as "Canada's team" but most people dont give a damn about basketball. Hockey, then NFL, MLB, Impact, Alouettes, international football (soccer), are all more popular.

But on your "hate" point : If Leafs fans and media are any indication of the average Ontarian sports fan... It's evident they dont help themselves at all.
Like Patriots and Bruins fans. Yankees fans. Arsenal fans. Come on these guys are the standard villains it's natural to hate them. If it was a Vancouver, Saskatoon, Yellowknife, w/e team maybe Id be inclined to follow but Toronto, never. It's not a souverainiste thing, it's simple sports rivalry. Of course it's not perfectly rational. Hence the term "fanatic".

 

[GoodKiwi]

That's one thing I hate about the NBA these days, teams don't stick it out. They rather overhaul the roster every 2 years instead of working at it and slowly improving the roster. In the 80s and 90s a team like OKC would of stuck it out and eventually won something. Incredible 3 eventual mvp's on that team. I blame Lebron for all this

The recent TV deals are also to "blame". The NBA cap has been exploding the last 6-8 years due to TV revenues. The NBA is the one major North American sports league where the players hold most, if not all, the power. Since players' salaries are directly tied to the cap, most stars aren't willing to sign long term deals anymore because they know they can make significantly more by signing short 1-2 year deals. They're willing to sacrifice security for more money and flexibility. It makes sense because the NBA isn't a "contact sport" like say the NFL or the NHL are, so the risk of a major, career-threatening injury is considerably lower (although still present of course).

 

[Adriatic]

The recent TV deals are also to "blame". The NBA cap has been exploding the last 6-8 years due to TV revenues. The NBA is the one major North American major sports league where the players hold most, if not all, the power. Since players' salaries are directly tied to the cap, most stars aren't willing to sign long term deals anymore because they know they can make significantly more by signing short 1-2 year deals. They're willing to sacrifice security for more money and flexibility. It makes sense because the NBA isn't a "contact sport" like say the NFL or the NHL are, so the risk of a major, career-threatening injury is considerably lower (although still present of course).

Ya I get it, it makes for a fun off season that's for sure, but the parity has pretty much gone out the window. The top players decide in the off season on which team 2 or 3 teams they will all pile on to and the rest of the league watches the parade. I guess some like stacking the deck on a couple of super teams but I'm not really enjoying this inmates running the asylum kinda thing they got going.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Ya I get it, it makes for a fun off season that's for sure, but the parity has pretty much gone out the window. The top players decide in the off season on which team 2 or 3 teams they will all pile on to and the rest of the league watches the parade. I guess some like stacking the deck on a couple of super teams but I'm not really enjoying this inmates running the asylum kinda thing they got going.

Parity is not a great recipe for TV eyeballs though. That much we know by now. Super teams and "dynasties" attract more viewership and the NBA has been benefitting from that big time. For ten or so years during the post-Jordan era, the NBA was in a major trouble and they understood something had to be done about it. And they did. Just look at historical TV ratings for the league. 90% of top 10 most watched anything (singular games, Finals, etc) are from the last 8-10 years.

I really admire the league in how it's managed to elevate its profile recently by clever marketing and letting the player personalities shine on and, more importantly (IMO), off the court. Silver understands that his league is in a unique position of being able to do that better than any other one (fans' proximity to the players, no helmets, etc.) and he is taking full advantage of it.

I think the NBA is the golden standard in how to make the most out your opportunity. The "noise" that comes with it I don't have a slightest issue with. I know some do. But it's how a successful sports league needs to be run this day and age IMO. And the NBA has set itself up for a long term time window to continue thriving.

P.S. To come back to the original point on parity, I think we are seeing that change now. Going into the next season the league is as wide open as I ever remember it being.

 

[Adriatic]

Parity is not a great recipe for TV eyeballs though. That much we know by now. Super teams and "dynasties" attract more viewership and the NBA has been benefitting from that big time. For ten or so years during the post-Jordan era, the NBA was in a major trouble and they understood something had to be done about it. And they did. Just look at historical TV ratings for the league. 90% of top 10 most watched anything (singular games, Finals, etc) are from the last 8-10 years.

I really admire the league in how it's managed to elevate its profile recently by clever marketing and letting the player personalities shine on and, more importantly (IMO), off the court. Silver understands that his league is in a unique position of being able to do that better than any other one (fans' proximity to the players, no helmets, etc.) and he is taking full advantage of it.

I think the NBA is the golden standard in how to make the most out your opportunity. The "noise" that comes with it I don't have a slightest issue with. I know some do. But it's how a successful sports league needs to be run this day and age IMO. And the NBA has set itself up for a long term time window to continue thriving.

P.S. To come back to the original point on parity, I think we are seeing that change now. Going into the next season the league is as wide open as I ever remember it being.

You can have dynasties without super teams though, 80's and 90's are a perfect example. I'm a neutral fan so ya I love it, but I'm not so sure all these owners enjoy losing superstars like that to watch them just pile on a select few teams. It might as well be like european football, just get rid of the cap all together. I have this feeling the NBA is headed towards a work stoppage.

 

[RealityBytes]

Wrong. It's mixed really. It's a huge bandwagon thing in recent years to brand a Toronto team as "Canada's team" but most people dont give a damn about basketball. Hockey, then NFL, MLB, Impact, Alouettes, international football (soccer), are all more popular.

But on your "hate" point : If Leafs fans and media are any indication of the average Ontarian sports fan... It's evident they dont help themselves at all.
Like Patriots and Bruins fans. Yankees fans. Arsenal fans. Come on these guys are the standard villains it's natural to hate them. If it was a Vancouver, Saskatoon, Yellowknife, w/e team maybe Id be inclined to follow but Toronto, never. It's not a souverainiste thing, it's simple sports rivalry. Of course it's not perfectly rational. Hence the term "fanatic".

"Most people don't give a damn about basketball" ... LOL. Do you live under a rock or what? Basketball is played by many kids in Canada everywhere now including high schools and CEGEPS and is one of the top indoor sports for them especially in winter, while soccer is played by more kids in summer than any other sport. Hockey is falling off because of cost. The Alouettes just like the entire CFL is almost dead and is being replaced by MLS. As for the NBA championship, were you out of the country for and didn't notice all the Jurassic Park locations, including "Jurassic Peel". The whole country went wild for the NBA championship. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/is-basketball-canada-s-new-national-sport-1.5139211

BTW, Leafs fans are all across the country. They are not just Ontario fans. There seems to be a like for the Leafs everywhere, except Quebec. Thats's just the way it is. If you have ever seen an away game with the Leafs, the stands of the team they are playing against are half Leafs fans. Even at US games, they show up everywhere. You'll see that if you get NHL Live. The only exception is the Bell Center with its sold out seats. Something must be working right for the Leaf's media.

I also don't know why you would consider Toronto to be a villain though, it's the only city in Canada with teams in the top three big leagues, and MLSE even made that big effort to try and get the Buffalo Bills. (Too bad that the governor of NY messed that up.) If it wasn't for Toronto, Canada wouldn't win any big titles. It was Toronto that won two World Series and an NBA championship aside from smaller stuff like an MLS championship and Grey Cup. MLSE's money has done Canada proud. Sports rivalry between Toronto and Montreal? ... there really isn't any except in hockey and the minor sports. Toronto, though, is the only option for Canadians if they want the big leagues.

 

[JianYang]

"Most people don't give a damn about basketball" ... LOL. Do you live under a rock or what? Basketball is played by many kids in Canada everywhere now including high schools and CEGEPS and is one of the top indoor sports for them especially in winter, while soccer is played by more kids in summer than any other sport. Hockey is falling off because of cost. The Alouettes just like the entire CFL is almost dead and is being replaced by MLS. As for the NBA championship, were you out of the country for and didn't notice all the Jurassic Park locations, including "Jurassic Peel". The whole country went wild for the NBA championship. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/is-basketball-canada-s-new-national-sport-1.5139211

BTW, Leafs fans are all across the country. They are not just Ontario fans. There seems to be a like for the Leafs everywhere, except Quebec. Thats's just the way it is. If you have ever seen an away game with the Leafs, the stands of the team they are playing against are half Leafs fans. Even at US games, they show up everywhere. You'll see that if you get NHL Live. The only exception is the Bell Center with its sold out seats. Something must be working right for the Leaf's media.

I also don't know why you would consider Toronto to be a villain though, it's the only city in Canada with teams in the top three big leagues, and MLSE even made that big effort to try and get the Buffalo Bills. (Too bad that the governor of NY messed that up.) If it wasn't for Toronto, Canada wouldn't win any big titles. It was Toronto that won two World Series and an NBA championship aside from smaller stuff like an MLS championship and Grey Cup. MLSE's money has done Canada proud. Sports rivalry between Toronto and Montreal? ... there really isn't any except in hockey and the minor sports. Toronto, though, is the only option for Canadians if they want the big leagues.

I disagree that Toronto is the only option if Canadians want big leagues.

What limits a fan from Canada to cheer for a Canadian team? Out here on the west coast, there's lots of fans that associate their affinity to Seattle teams. They are pretty much neighbours, and have many things in common with Vancouverites.

The Jays and raptors will also have their fans here. The national exposure in terms of broadcasting will have that effect.

But there also fans of many other American based franchises here. It's actually all over the map. I think when the broadcasters start force feeding, especially in the raptors case, that this is "Canada's team", people get annoyed by the arrogance in that statement.

There's a sizeable portion of fans who couldn't care less about the Canadian angle, and when they get lumped into "Canada's team", it's only natural that resentment will follow.

 

[GoodKiwi]

I disagree that Toronto is the only option if Canadians want big leagues.

What limits a fan from Canada to cheer for a Canadian team? Out here on the west coast, there's lots of fans that associate their affinity to Seattle teams. They are pretty much neighbours, and have many things in common with Vancouverites.

The Jays and raptors will also have their fans here. The national exposure in terms of broadcasting will have that effect.

But there also fans of many other American based franchises here. It's actually all over the map. I think when the broadcasters start force feeding, especially in the raptors case, that this is "Canada's team", people get annoyed by the arrogance in that statement.

There's a sizeable portion of fans who couldn't care less about the Canadian angle, and when they get lumped into "Canada's team", it's only natural that resentment will follow.

15.9 million Canadians were estimated to have tuned into some part of the game, which represents 44 percent of the country’s population and a record.

Raptors drew staggering TV ratings in Canada for Game 6 of NBA Finals

If those numbers don't speak "Canada's team" to you, I'm not sure anything else will.

Would you at least agree that the Raptors are the most popular NBA team in Canada?

 

[JianYang]

Raptors drew staggering TV ratings in Canada for Game 6 of NBA Finals

If those numbers don't speak "Canada's team" to you, I'm not sure anything else will.

I'm well aware. The raptors were the talk of the town, and I was one of those sets of eyeballs. Alot wanted to see the raptors succeed. Some wanted to see the warriors win, as they have built a fanbase over the last few years, and others tuned in to watch raptors fail.

But the bandwagoning aspect was big, and the novelty factor was also apparent. Let's see their playoff numbers next year. I expect that the novelty will wear off a bit, and the banwagoners won't be as enthused.

 

[GoodKiwi]

I'm well aware. The raptors were the talk of the town, and I was one of those sets of eyeballs.

The bandwagoning aspect was big, and the novelty factor was also apparent. Let's see their playoff numbers next year. I expect that the novelty will wear off a bit, and the banwagoners won't be as enthused.

Those aren't going to be the leading reasons as to why the TV numbers will plummet next spring.

It's only normal for there to be less attention on a non-championship caliber team without a super star on it for 1 or, at the most, 2 rounds of the playoffs.

 

[JianYang]

Those aren't going to be the leading reasons as to why the TV numbers will plummet next spring.

It's only normal for there to be less attention on a non-championship caliber team without a super star on it for 1 or, at the most, 2 rounds of the playoffs.

I think you will find that the number will especially plummet outside of the local market.

Anyways, the numbers show that there was alot of interest, and I even said so in my post.

But the context of my discussion was about why certain people would "hate" the raptors, and that just because they exist in Canada, it does not mean people have to root for them.

For those sports fans who have an emotional affiliation with other teams, I can totally see how they would get annoyed with being lumped into a category they don't belong to.

 

[buddahsmoka1]

But the bandwagoning aspect was big, and the novelty factor was also apparent. Let's see their playoff numbers next year. I expect that the novelty will wear off a bit, and the banwagoners won't be as enthused.

That's a spurious argument considering they lost their premier superstar.

 

[GoodKiwi]

You can have dynasties without super teams though, 80's and 90's are a perfect example. I'm a neutral fan so ya I love it, but I'm not so sure all these owners enjoy losing superstars like that to watch them just pile on a select few teams. It might as well be like european football, just get rid of the cap all together. I have this feeling the NBA is headed towards a work stoppage.

With all due respect, what difference does it make whether the 80's Lakers and Celtics were super teams or not when they made the finals combined 13 times out of 20 possible during the decade? Furthermore, I'd argue that while those teams weren't "super teams" by today's definition of the term, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the league talent-wise. If we want to talk about lack of parity in the NBA one should look no further than the 80's era. You could pretty much pencil either BOS or LAL in as the eventual winners before the season began and be right 80% of the time. While I surely appreciated the individual talent of some of the players back then, I firmly believe the NBA is a lot more vibrant and in a better place as both a business and an entertainment right now.

On you second point about the cap system in the NBA... I actually like it a lot. Soft cap might seem like an artificial restriction to some, but, in reality, it heavily punishes the teams that go and, more importantly, stay over it for a prolonged period of time. The luxury tax is not just a gimmick, it is a strong deterrent even for the richest of teams. Don't quote me on the numbers, but had the Warriors kept all 3 of Steph, Thompson and KD it would have cost them 1.7 billion dollars over the next 4-5 years when combining players salaries and the luxury tax punishment. That isn't a figure just anyone can swallow. And the reason GS has been able to do what they did over the last 3 years was because their stars were underpaid by taking less money in order to make it all work.

The NBA is thriving and you can quote me when I say that there will not be a lockout in the foreseeable future. It's the healthiest of all 4 major sports leagues and both sides are about as happy as they could be. More on that here: How The NBA Makes Money: The Second-Largest Sport in the Country

The most important takeway from the above article (IMO) is that once a league is no longer gate-driven it is in a great shape and that's what today's NBA is.

Even with a total of 400-odd active players making an average of close to $5 million annually, national TV contracts generate enough revenue to cover salaries and then some.

 

[Adriatic]

With all due respect, what difference does it make whether the 80's Lakers and Celtics were super teams or not when they made the finals combined 13 times out of 20 possible during the decade? Furthermore, I'd argue that while those teams weren't "super teams" by today's definition of the term, they were clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the league talent-wise. If we want to talk about lack of parity in the NBA one should look no further than the 80's era. You could pretty much pencil either BOS or LAL in as the eventual winners before the season began and be right 80% of the time. While I surely appreciated the individual talent of some of the players back then, I firmly believe the NBA is a lot more vibrant and in a better place as both a business and an entertainment right now.

On you second point about the cap system in the NBA... I actually like it a lot. Soft cap might seem like an artificial restriction to some, but, in reality, it heavily punishes the teams that go and, more importantly, stay over it for a prolonged period of time. The luxury tax is not just a gimmick, it is a strong deterrent even for the richest of teams. Don't quote me on the numbers, but had the Warriors kept all 3 of Steph, Thompson and KD it would have cost them 1.7 billion dollars over the next 4-5 years when combining players salaries and the luxury tax punishment. That isn't a figure just anyone can swallow. And the reason GS has been able to do what they did over the last 3 years was because their stars were underpaid by taking less money in order to make it all work.

The NBA is thriving and you can quote me when I say that there will not be a lockout in the foreseeable future. It's the healthiest of all 4 major sports leagues and both sides are about as happy as they could be. More on that here: How The NBA Makes Money: The Second-Largest Sport in the Country

The most important takeway from the above article (IMO) is that once a league is no longer gate-driven it is in a great shape and that's what today's NBA is.

80's and 90's dynasties were built on drafting mostly, not because a few players decided to get together and stack the deck. It was more of an even playing field because it was possible for teams teams the like Bulls and Piston to compete. In todays NBA it is much harder for cities like Chicago or Detroit to even compete because they simply cannot attract free agents. It's basically New York area, Miami and California...good luck signing a top free agent if your team plays anywhere else.

The cap can't be that much of a deterrent as you have a lot teams that go over it. As for the luxury tax, the rich teams have no problems paying for it. Warriors were ready to offer a max deal to Durant, to keep Clay and had no problems affording it since they are moving in a new arena are the highest generating team in the NBA.

The NBA may be healthy but I still don't think having players get together in the summer to decide which team to boost is fun the rest of the pack. I may be wrong but I think the owners will come up with some of scheme to have more power over player movement.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Checked the box score of a Blue Jays game tonight. Top 5th, bases loaded, 1 out. Vladdy Jr. at the plate. Got a feeling there was going to be a big hit and decided to tune in. Turned out to be a good decision cause two pitches later I saw a blistering 440+ ft HR to center and his first grand slam in the majors.

 

[GoodKiwi]

Excellent pitching performance tonight in what was most certainly his last home start by Marcus Stroman.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Excellent pitching performance tonight in what was most certainly his last home start by Marcus Stroman.

They really need to get a good return for him, cause Sanchez isn't worth much at this point. The Braves have such a good farm system, they could probably make a good offer if they want to.

 

[Runner77]

They really need to get a good return for him, cause Sanchez isn't worth much at this point. The Braves have such a good farm system, they could probably make a good offer if they want to.

With a name like Stroman, he’d be perfect for the Stros.

 

[GoodKiwi]

I think it's very likely Stroman, Hudson, Giles and Sogard are going to be traded. We'll see about Galvis and Smoak (least likely to go). I don't think trading Sanchez is in the cards.

Blue Jays should be the most active seller at this trade deadline.

I agree, this is going to determine the faith of Shapiro and Atkins. Should they whiff on the return, they'll be canned down the road undoubtedly. They've already gambled and lost on Happ, EE, JD. This simply can't continue.

 

[GoodKiwi]

With a name like Stroman, he’d be perfect for the Stros.

He's been linked to the Yanks, Astros and Padres. I think the Twins are also in the running. There are reports that it's been relatively quiet on the Jays-Braves front. Some attribute that to some leftover hard feelings between the current Jays front office and AA.

Sogard has been linked to a bunch of teams already. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the first one to go given that the SP market is being held up by decisions on Bauer, Syndergaard and, to a lesser extent, Bumgarner.

@Pompeius Magnus , would you do Stroman for Kyle Tucker one for one deal? It's been floated out there today. Obviously, Tucker is a magnificent prospect, but I ask mainly because he isn't someone to address the Jays most glaring holes at SP position going forward. Although, of course, they also need OFs.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

@Pompeius Magnus , would you do Stroman for Kyle Tucker one for one deal? It's been floated out there today. Obviously, Tucker is a magnificent prospect, but I ask mainly because he isn't someone to address the Jays most glaring holes at SP position going forward. Although, of course, they also need OFs.

It's possible, although you do hear a lot about them wanting young pitching as the main return. At some point you do have to go with the best player you can get and Tucker is very talented . Plus he bats left, they don't have a ton of left-handed batters in the system coming up, outside of Biggio. The announcing crew mentioned Spencer Howard from the Phillies as a possibility during today's game but that was just speculation.

 

[GoodKiwi]

It's possible, although you do hear a lot about them wanting young pitching as the main return. At some point you do have to go with the best player you can get and Tucker is very talented . Plus he bats left, they don't have a ton of left-handed batters in the system coming up, outside of Biggio. The announcing crew mentioned Spencer Howard from the Phillies as a possibility during today's game but that was just speculation.

I don't think Howard is someone PHI is willing to trade. He's probably an "untouchable". I watched some highlights of his AA debut and his stuff was lights-out.

The Jays are surely not shy about asking for the moon for Stroman. Just received a notification of them supposedly asking for Gleyber Torres from the Yanks.

 

[peate]

NBA Trophy was in town, talk about Mtl getting a franchise? Seems to be gathering steam, faster than baseball. Wouldn't need to build a stadium.
Raptors' Chris Boucher wants to put Montreal basketball on the map

 

[GoodKiwi]

Sogard traded to the Rays.