OT: The OT Thread Part 5: New HF Talk

[doulos]

Like 200 people outside of China even have it. 0 deaths.

Let's keep the fear train rolling.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[SK13]

These stories always have me so torn.

It's obviously a beautiful thing this guy is doing but they shouldn't have to rely on a random rich dude for accessible college.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[belair]

Like 200 people outside of China even have it. 0 deaths.

Let's keep the fear train rolling.

Deaths are more likely to occur in areas that are overwhelmed with patients and are unable to tend to the sick. The instances outside of China are individual cases. Not surprising there are minimal casualties outside of ground zero.

 

[doulos]

Deaths are more likely to occur in areas that are overwhelmed with patients and are unable to tend to the sick. The instances outside of China are individual cases. Not surprising there are minimal casualties outside of ground zero.

Completely agreed.

 

[belair]

Completely agreed.

Which is why the r0 is the biggest threat to the countries where outbreaks are currently not occurring.

Your lightning strike theory isn't valid in this case.

 

[doulos]

Which is why the r0 is the biggest threat to the countries where outbreaks are currently not occurring.

Your lightning strike theory isn't valid in this case.

I am actually more afraid of lightning.

 

[belair]

I am actually more afraid of lightning.

Again, the argument here is that the information being provided isn't meant to provoke fear. It's necessary for the public to be well informed. In the instance that we do begin to see p2p transmission in North America, it's in everyone's best interest to be informed. We should know what this thing does and how we can minimize the likelihood of passing it onto others in the instances where symptoms are minimal, mild or severe.

You're not afraid of it? Fantastic. I'm just not convinced you know a lot about it.

 

[doulos]

Again, the argument here is that the information being provided isn't meant to provoke fear. It's necessary for the public to be well informed. In the instance that we do begin to see p2p transmission in North America, it's in everyone's best interest to be informed. We should know what this thing does and how we can minimize the likelihood of passing it onto others in the instances where symptoms are minimal, mild or severe.

You're not afraid of it? Fantastic. I'm just not convinced you know a lot about it.

Informed, yes. The armchair scientists you think they have a handle on how these health agencies should or should not be handling things are laughable though. Also, the fact that it promotes fear is disgusting.

Honestly though, in a world where people think vaccines cause autism, that invisible people control your destiny, that homeopathy/acupuncture are real things, and that a cold winter day negates AGW, this is really just par for the course. It's the internet, what can you do.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There hasn't been one attempt by anybody in this discussion to promote fear, panic, or anything like that regarding the virus. The intent has been to promote information, which people can look at or not.

All of the "armchair scientists" from CDC to WHO are evaluating this virus as a big deal. It is because its a zoonotic cross species virus that is replicating in large numbers person to person and is NOVEL with no known vaccines, treatments, cures. Every such contagion can also mutate again to an even more virulent or lethal form. As it is this current virus is plowing through health care resources in China and exhausting such resource. Namely because such a considerable proportion of people with this virus require hospitalization including intensive care treatment.

One way to look at such contagion is how much the human race is again being exposed to, or impacted by viral, bacterial onslaught and each one of these newer mutations is a novel form that gets added to that epidemic pot. This coronavirus is expected to survive and stick around and be an added nemesis. That its not seen to be going away is a concern. NOBODY is making an argument that people should be concerned about one vs another contagion, or that people should not get flushots. Really the consistent argument is encouraging proactive response re: threats to health.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[doulos]

Even in your last post you have multiple exaggerations and falsehoods Replacement. This is why I dont bother posting long posts in reply to you. Classic Gish Gallop

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[belair]

Informed, yes. The armchair scientists you think they have a handle on how these health agencies should or should not be handling things are laughable though. Also, the fact that it promotes fear is disgusting.

Honestly though, in a world where people think vaccines cause autism, that invisible people control your destiny, that homeopathy/acupuncture are real things, and that a cold winter day negates AGW, this is really just par for the course. It's the internet, what can you do.

Do your homework and it's actually quite easy to skim through a lot of the garbage.

Like I said before, fear and panic occur when large groups of people are highly uninformed.

 

[belair]

I was really surprised when I realized that these aren't built in China.

Paternoster elevators. Never knew they existed. Cool.

 

[doulos]

Do your homework and it's actually quite easy to skim through a lot of the garbage.

Like I said before, fear and panic occur when large groups of people are highly uninformed.

I think we largely agree!

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Drivesaitl]

Even in your last post you have multiple exaggerations and falsehoods Replacement. This is why I dont bother posting long posts in reply to you. Classic Gish Gallop

That you're lazily using the term Gish Gallop indicates smear and dodge on your part. Plus you've engaged in the bolded in your replies.

NOTICE: On the "Gish Gallop" false accusation tactic and fallacious dodge | Uncommon Descent

Your bold claim is that I am providing "false information" in the thread that is "disgusting". A decent response would be to clarify your concern, or stop making the claims.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Enjoyed that one, thanks for these!

 

[doulos]

That you're lazily using the term Gish Gallop indicates smear and dodge on your part. Plus you've engaged in the bolded in your replies.

NOTICE: On the "Gish Gallop" false accusation tactic and fallacious dodge | Uncommon Descent

Your bold claim is that I am providing "false information" in the thread that is "disgusting". A decent response would be to clarify your concern, or stop making the claims.

Have a good day.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Do your homework and it's actually quite easy to skim through a lot of the garbage.

Like I said before, fear and panic occur when large groups of people are highly uninformed.

It is surprising to me that so many people are in that sheer mode now. Hospitals, Dr's offices are having a lot of influx of people utilizing the health system for the slightest cough with assorted hypochondria. So concern about erroneous reaction is valid. But it doesn't stand that accurate information should not occur so as to limit such misguided over reaction.

This is a whole other topic, and @doulos has touched on it that a bigger problem is what proportions of public no long believe in valid medicine and refute such things as vaccination, medical recommended therapy etc. We all seem to concur on that point.

 

[belair]

It is surprising to me that so many people are in that sheer mode now. Hospitals, Dr's offices are having a lot of influx of people utilizing the health system for the slightest cough with assorted hypochondria. So concern about erroneous reaction is valid. But it doesn't stand that accurate information should not occur so as to limit such misguided over reaction.

This is a whole other topic, and @doulos has touched on it that a bigger problem is what proportions of public no long believe in valid medicine and refute such things as vaccination, medical recommended therapy etc. We all seem to concur on that point.

Looking at the bigger picture, there are definitely going to be groups of very different people with different mindsets. A large contingent of that at-risk group in the 60+ range are likely not the most tech-savvy either, so their ability to get the right information is limited to tools available to them. I don't blame people for being overcautious--but it's a result of the same lack of knowledge.

I don't believe in dismissive attitudes towards these threats. Regardless of how deadly a pathogen like this is, it's a test to how quickly we as a species can control and eliminate the threat.

Top WHO official warns world may be 'dangerously unprepared' for next pandemic as coronavirus outbreak spreads

 

[Drivesaitl]

Looking at the bigger picture, there are definitely going to be groups of very different people with different mindsets. A large contingent of that at-risk group in the 60+ range are likely not the most tech-savvy either, so their ability to get the right information is limited to tools available to them. I don't blame people for being overcautious--but it's a result of the same lack of knowledge.

I don't believe in dismissive attitudes towards these threats. Regardless of how deadly a pathogen like this is, it's a test to how quickly we as a species can control and eliminate the threat.

Top WHO official warns world may be 'dangerously unprepared' for next pandemic as coronavirus outbreak spreads

That's the main concern to me. In many ways they are doing everything they can in China but theres not a global political willingness do to everything to limit the spread of an outbreak. But is there ever going to be a political global will to vastly limit air travel? There should be for countless reasons but make a buck tends to rule. Its interesting that carriers like Air Canada stopped flights of course not due to any benevolent action, but simply because so many people were cancelling and that flying those planes was going to cost more than they would make. I know it might seem odd to expect carriers to conscientiously self regulate but they ought to. For instance should airlines fly people into or around expected catastrophe zones involving hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes? Well they do. Is that even good business practice overall to care so little about where you are taking or dropping passengers off? Thoughts for another board probably.

Anyway cheers to all for having the convo and of course for @bellagiobob bringing daily humor to the OT thread.