OT: The OT Thread Part 5: New HF Talk

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Drivesaitl

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There isn't a need for a full travel ban in China. Less than 5k people have acquired coronavirus in China, and less than 100 on the rest of the entire planet. Just over 100 have died in China and 0 across the rest of the world, with basically everyone who has died being elderly or with compromised immune systems/other issues.

I suspect many of the people freaking out over this are the same people who don't bother to get a flu shot every year, and that's going to kill magnitudes more.

Well your suspicion is habitually wrong it would seem. Can't speak for others, and perhaps you shouldn't either, but I get the flushot every year and have for decades. I suspect many that are concerned about such things as pandemics probably do. Not sure how you would think otherwise.
 
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Drivesaitl

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One of the (many) functions of certain health professionals is to correct unwarranted concerns of their patients. It is part of your doctor's job to tell you that your itchy b-hole is not a symptom of colon cancer, for example. Experts still have a role to play in society--despite the unfortunate emergence of google scholars.

That's one function.

You didn't get the distinction I was making. Its unprofessional, blatantly, for a national medical panel to give WRONG information in a televised conference on the subject of screening the disease at airports and entry points. The information was flat out incorrect. It was wrong by about 3 days. Its frankly embarassing that the medical professionals speaking were saying that the screening would be effective when it was already known for several days that contagion starts BEFORE symptoms (for instance fever) occur. As the journalist I cited perfectly stated that's the killshot. I mean they were essentially proved wrong, as the article pointed out, in the same day they made the statements.

It would be fortunate if medical professionals giving conferences could at least keep abreast of the current findings in making nationally televised statements.
 
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soothsayer

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That's one function.

You didn't get the distinction I was making. Its unprofessional, blatantly, for a national medical panel to give WRONG information in a televised conference on the subject of screening the disease at airports and entry points. The information was flat out incorrect. It was wrong by about 3 days. Its frankly embarassing that the medical professionals speaking were saying that the screening would be effective when it was already known for several days that contagion starts BEFORE symptoms (for instance fever) occur. As the journalist I cited perfectly stated that's the killshot. I mean they were essentially proved wrong, as the article pointed out, in the same day they made the statements.

It would be fortunate if medical professionals giving conferences could at least keep abreast of the current findings in making nationally televised statements.

The majority of your post was about how it's not the job of medical professionals to placate the public.
 

Drivesaitl

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The majority of your post was about how it's not the job of medical professionals to placate the public.

It was one of two joint posts made last night that you looked at. I did that do limit one mega post. Look for the post just before it if you want. Covers my full view on why authorities giving erroneous information is irresponsible and the risks of doing so.
 

doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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One of the (many) functions of certain health professionals is to correct unwarranted concerns of their patients. It is part of your doctor's job to tell you that your itchy b-hole is not a symptom of colon cancer, for example. Experts still have a role to play in society--despite the unfortunate emergence of google scholars.

Yup, let's listen to InternetExpert427 over the CDC and other experts.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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There isn't a need for a full travel ban in China. Less than 5k people have acquired coronavirus in China, and less than 100 on the rest of the entire planet. Just over 100 have died in China and 0 across the rest of the world, with basically everyone who has died being elderly or with compromised immune systems/other issues.

I suspect many of the people freaking out over this are the same people who don't bother to get a flu shot every year, and that's going to kill magnitudes more.
This is something that will need to be repeated relentlessly. If the Coronavirus spreads to the rest of the world there is no workable vaccine. It will continue to kill those with the inability to fight the virus. That is the issue. If it becomes as widespread as your average flu, it will kill a lot of people.

This isn't fear-mongering, it's a fact that people need to accept. It's in everyone's best interest to keep these zoonotic viruses contained to the region they occur in.
 
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doulos

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This is something that will need to be repeated relentlessly. If the Coronavirus spreads to the rest of the world there is no workable vaccine. It will continue to kill those with the inability to fight the virus. That is the issue. If it becomes as widespread as your average flu, it will kill a lot of people.

This isn't fear-mongering, it's a fact that people need to accept. It's in everyone's best interest to keep these zoonotic viruses contained to the region they occur in.


Here's just one example of why the general public are not scientists and should not be fueling fear with their ignorance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...e-stigma-york-regional-school-board-1.5443128
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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Here's just one example of why the general public are not scientists and should not be fueling fear with their ignorance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...e-stigma-york-regional-school-board-1.5443128
How is this in any way a logical argument to what I presented to you?

The article here isn't an example of fear-mongering or even racism, it's idiocy. You know what breeds fear and idiocy? A lack of knowledge!

What do you disagree with? It's simple math that if the number of people who contract the virus grows, so will the death toll. The virus should be contained.
 
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doulos

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How is this in any way a logical argument to what I presented to you?

The article here isn't an example of fear-mongering or even racism, it's idiocy. You know what breeds fear and idiocy? A lack of knowledge!

What do you disagree with? It's simple math that if the number of people who contract the virus grows, so will the death toll. The virus should be contained.

Of course it should be contained. I've never disputed that.

What we don't need are people freaking out and causing issues over something that is likely to cause barely a blip in Canada.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
38,537
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Of course it should be contained. I've never disputed that.

What we don't need are people freaking out and causing issues over something that is likely to cause barely a blip in Canada.
I asked you what you disagreed with. There's no panicked tone in anything I've provided in the post you quoted.

I wouldn't go as far to say this won't cause a blip in Canada when there are cases popping up across North America at the current time. It's not a cause for panic, but there's definitely a valid concern--especially when we're not hearing a whole lot in regards to how preventative measures are currently being taken.

Personally I believe an out of sight, out of mind approach to potential pandemics is why hysteria eventually happens. If people properly educated themselves there'd be less fear and more preparedness.
 

doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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I asked you what you disagreed with. There's no panicked tone in anything I've provided in the post you quoted.

I wouldn't go as far to say this won't cause a blip in Canada when there are cases popping up across North America at the current time. It's not a cause for panic, but there's definitely a valid concern--especially when we're not hearing a whole lot in regards to how preventative measures are currently being taken.

Personally I believe an out of sight, out of mind approach to potential pandemics is why hysteria eventually happens. If people properly educated themselves there'd be less fear and more preparedness.

I am not disagreeing with you. Let's let those who spend their entire careers handling these types of situations actually handle the situations, and the armchair scientists can stick to hockey. :)

If you think people on the internet are going to educate themselves in any kind of coherent way on an issue like this, well, I guess I don't see that happening.
 

Daryls Friend

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May 14, 2017
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I disagree wholeheartedly with your take. I've read enough on this issue to not be concerned with it any more than I was with SARS, which was very little at all. I don't forsee any situation where me adding any information to this thread will do anything except encourage you to post 87 giant diatribes on why you are correct. I'm not interested in it.

I maintain that there is massive overreaction to this issue by the general public and that posts such as yours are grossly irresponsible. Just my opinion on this matter.
Yeah. WHO declares it an International Health Emergency. But wtf do they know.
Its nothing until it isn't. And thats the problem which somehow seems lost on many.
One of these days….
 

Drivesaitl

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Yeah. WHO declares it an International Health Emergency. But wtf do they know.
Its nothing until it isn't. And thats the problem which somehow seems lost on many.
One of these days….

Its the problem. One day one of these zoonotic cross species contagions is going to be the one and these outbreak trials occur each time these occur and each time its found that Countries and jurisdictions are still unprepared. That countries even allow international air travel between countries harboring a pandemic is insane to me. It is to a lot of people. The decisions to ground those planes should be automatic. but that requires strong handed govts.

Its ironic that China, oft accused (rightfully) of ignoring problems is doing most of what is saving the world from this outbreak. I couldn't imagine what would be happening if this one was ground zero in some region without the degree of medical response. China is throwing everything they can at this and the infections could still hit 9-10K official count, by the end of today. This is still reflecting exponential increase in known numbers of infected.

Could anybody even imagine if Canada's health system had to contend with 10K of these cases happening all at once? Many patients with this condition are requiring intensive care. It would overwhelm our whole system.

Nobody would be referring to this as nothing at that point.
 
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doulos

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Yeah. WHO declares it an International Health Emergency. But wtf do they know.
Its nothing until it isn't. And thats the problem which somehow seems lost on many.
One of these days….

Of course it's not nothing. Not sure who told you it was.

More people are likely to die from lightning strikes this year than the coronavirus. The proper thing to do when there is a thunderstorm is to probably stay inside, or at the very least not go golfing.

It's the same thing here. Most countries are fully equipped to handle these types of situations. Canada in particular. But you take proper precautions. The worry is this:

"Let me be clear, this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China," Tedros said. "Our greatest concern is the potential for the virus to spread to countries with weaker health systems."

The worry is that it spreads to somewhere like India where it could really spread. So, they declare the emergency, and all hands on board to make sure it doesn't happen. By and large this situation has been handled fairly well - never perfectly of course.

I'm not worried about lightning strikes, and I'm not worried about this. This is not the plague.
 

ThreeOfAPerfectPair

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Oct 26, 2017
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Of course it's not nothing. Not sure who told you it was.

More people are likely to die from lightning strikes this year than the coronavirus. The proper thing to do when there is a thunderstorm is to probably stay inside, or at the very least not go golfing.

It's the same thing here. Most countries are fully equipped to handle these types of situations. Canada in particular. But you take proper precautions. The worry is this:

"Let me be clear, this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China," Tedros said. "Our greatest concern is the potential for the virus to spread to countries with weaker health systems."

The worry is that it spreads to somewhere like India where it could really spread. So, they declare the emergency, and all hands on board to make sure it doesn't happen. By and large this situation has been handled fairly well - never perfectly of course.

I'm not worried about lightning strikes, and I'm not worried about this. This is not the plague.

It's great you won't be personally affected. :thumbu:
 
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Drivesaitl

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This is the Coronavirus tracker if anybody wants to see.

Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

Now over 11K cases and now 259 deaths. The worse news is now over 150 cases outside of Mainland China and numbers steadily increasing and the virus is jumping hosts now outside of China. Person to person infection quite clear to have occurred across several countries. .

btw those cases in France that were considered "EASY" to treat by the French medical team a week ago are now mostly severe. Even one of the 31 yr olds is in intensive care. This being one of the patients that the French considered already treated. Very clearly that was spoken too soon.

This is not contained. The biggest hope is that the virus does not get around the globe in the type of numbers that might spur ample contagion. If it fizzles out its expected that the virus will be recurring at later points but then by that time maybe a vaccine or treatments will be available.
 
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