OT: The OT Thread Part 5: New HF Talk

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Coffey

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I'll give Kenney the benefit of the doubt like I did Trudeau and Trump.
Let's see if I go 3/3.

(I also voted for Trudeau cause I wanted weed, but f*** everything else that dude does)
 

Drivesaitl

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I'll give Kenney the benefit of the doubt like I did Trudeau and Trump.
Let's see if I go 3/3.

(I also voted for Trudeau cause I wanted weed, but **** everything else that dude does)

how can I downvote this post...;)

At least you were honest with your rationale. heh. I wonder though how much this was the reason he got elected. At least he delivered, but they didn't get the rollout right either, excuse pun. hippies be broke with these prices.

hey, we can grow our own 4 small plants, but, butt,.....80bucks for 4 seeds. lmfao.
 
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Coffey

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Sep 27, 2017
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how can I downvote this post...;)

At least you were honest with your rationale. heh. I wonder though how much this was the reason he got elected. At least he delivered, but they didn't get the rollout right either, excuse pun. hippies be broke with these prices.

hey, we can grow our own 4 small plants, but, butt,.....80bucks for 4 seeds. lmfao.
I'm pretty left leaning... But he's too far left lol
I think it was a big reason why he got elected and I'm damn happy the weed stigma is dying.
Now vote in someone that acts like an adult and not a 21 year old art school hippie.
 

McKappa

philip bruhberg
Oct 16, 2011
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Edmonton
I don't see how it's possible that so many Edmontonians voted for the NDP...
Pretty much everyone I'm around. Aka students at the u of a or just people in the 18-25 age range were all in support of the NDP. Usually people who study in my discipline traditionally vote a right wing party, most of them went NDP for this election.

Also every single colored person including myself that I know of voted for NDP, pretty sure not a single ballot from the LGBT community or the Alberta teachers went to the UCP either.

Edmonton is the most liberal place in Alberta by quite a margin so it's not very surprising.
 
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McKappa

philip bruhberg
Oct 16, 2011
2,794
558
Edmonton
Making it easier for people to vote to increase citizen engagement and voter turnout is bad because they cant announce a winner at 7pm like they normally do?

700 000 people voted early in a province of 3 million. Thats 700 000 people who might not have voted if they could only do it on tuesday
U of A strategically had the advance voting the week before exams started so that the students had much more incentive to vote this time. Nearly everyone I knew at school voted unless they weren't an Alberta resident.
 

rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Edmonton
Making it easier for people to vote to increase citizen engagement and voter turnout is bad because they cant announce a winner at 7pm like they normally do?

700 000 people voted early in a province of 3 million. Thats 700 000 people who might not have voted if they could only do it on tuesday
My issue was never with advanced balloting. Ive cast advanced ballots in the past myself. I’ve been voting since 1988 and it’s been available as long as I can remember and never been an issue.

CBC was reporting yesterday that those advanced ballots, which they said were going to represent close to 25% of eligible voters weren’t going to start being counted until today because of rule changes coming into effect for this election. They were reporting it could be an issue and it was possible the result of the election could be in doubt for an extra day ot two. Not talking about a riding or two which we see in a lot of elections but the whole thing. They were wrong as another poster linked an article explaining what the changes actually were but that isn’t what they were reporting.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
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Edmonton, AB
Pretty much everyone I'm around. Aka students at the u of a or just people in the 18-25 age range were all in support of the NDP. Usually people who study in my discipline traditionally vote a right wing party, most of them went NDP for this election.

Also every single colored person including myself that I know of voted for NDP, pretty sure not a single ballot from the LGBT community or the Alberta teachers went to the UCP either.

Edmonton is the most liberal place in Alberta by quite a margin so it's not very surprising.

I'm 18 years old myself. I am also a "coloured person." And I'm in university. And there was no chance in hell that I was ever going to vote for anyone but the UCP.
 
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McKappa

philip bruhberg
Oct 16, 2011
2,794
558
Edmonton
I'm 18 years old myself. I am also a "coloured person." And I'm in university. And there was no chance in hell that I was ever going to vote for anyone but the UCP.
I mean there are always exceptions among certain demographics, a strong majority of the people in the demographic specified voted NDP to my knowledge.
 
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Gopper

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Sep 5, 2005
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I don't see how it's possible that so many Edmontonians voted for the NDP...
Because not everyone votes and thinks like you. Also, Kenney's is a self serving, plutocratic populist. I've been a conservative supporter my whole, but he's a bridge too far for me. I hope he does well though.
 

ujju2

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Apr 9, 2016
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Edmonton, AB
Because not everyone votes and thinks like you. Also, Kenney's is a self serving, plutocratic populist. I've been a conservative supporter my whole, but he's a bridge too far for me. I hope he does well though.

I realize this. I'm just surprised at the sheer numbers of how many people would rather vote for the NDP. Not to mention a lot of the Edmonton UCP candidates were superb people, regardless of what you think of the leader.
 

rboomercat90

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
14,598
8,770
Edmonton
I realize this. I'm just surprised at the sheer numbers of how many people would rather vote for the NDP. Not to mention a lot of the Edmonton UCP candidates were superb people, regardless of what you think of the leader.
Edmonton has, for decades, been the voice of opposition to conservative rule in the province. This is a government town and with that comes public sector unions. We also have a large University. Students who haven’t yet worked for a living have unrealistic ideals, making a party opposing the establishment look attractive. Right now, that opposition votes NDP. During the Klein era it was the liberals. What happened in this election doesn’t come as much surprise to people older than yourself.
 
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yukoner88

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Dec 16, 2009
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Not talking about a riding or two which we see in a lot of elections but the whole thing. They were wrong as another poster linked an article explaining what the changes actually were but that isn’t what they were reporting.

This is such a problem, not just CBC but almost all of the media outlets. They very rarely give you a full report on something or give it so much spin and BS it's hard to take a lot of what they say seriously (especially when reporting things that relate to political topics).

It's played a decent role into why my wife n I don't even have a TV anymore let alone cable. Just use the Internet to watch n listen to what we want n not deal with media's crap
 
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ujju2

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Apr 9, 2016
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Edmonton, AB
Edmonton has, for decades, been the voice of opposition to conservative rule in the province. This is a government town and with that comes public sector unions. We also have a large University. Students who haven’t yet worked for a living have unrealistic ideals, making a party opposing the establishment look attractive. Right now, that opposition votes NDP. During the Klein era it was the liberals. What happened in this election doesn’t come as much surprise to people older than yourself.

Yeah, that's what I've been hearing. And I assume the provincial government jobs don't affect the way Edmonton votes federally? Because Edmonton seems to vote reliably Conservative there.
 

soothsayer

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Oct 27, 2009
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Edmonton has, for decades, been the voice of opposition to conservative rule in the province. This is a government town and with that comes public sector unions. We also have a large University. Students who haven’t yet worked for a living have unrealistic ideals, making a party opposing the establishment look attractive. Right now, that opposition votes NDP. During the Klein era it was the liberals. What happened in this election doesn’t come as much surprise to people older than yourself.

Like it or not, "young idealistic students" tend to remain left leaning throughout their lives. It's pretty well established that the higher the degree of education a person has, the more likely that person is to lean left. Generally there is a bit of leveling off politically after students have graduated and begun to make their way into their lives, but university education remains a good indicator of party affiliation.

Why that is, who can say in only a few words. But it's more likely that Edmonton is orange because a higher percentage of its population has a university education than it is because there was a snap shot of time where some 40,000 students voted left according to their fleeting ideals. To say that students who lean left do so because they are idealistic is the same as saying all rig workers who vote conservative do so just because they like material things. It's nonsense.
 

Drivesaitl

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Like it or not, "young idealistic students" tend to remain left leaning throughout their lives. It's pretty well established that the higher the degree of education a person has, the more likely that person is to lean left. Generally there is a bit of leveling off politically after students have graduated and begun to make their way into their lives, but university education remains a good indicator of party affiliation.

Why that is, who can say in only a few words. But it's more likely that Edmonton is orange because a higher percentage of its population has a university education than it is because there was a snap shot of time where some 40,000 students voted left according to their fleeting ideals. To say that students who lean left do so because they are idealistic is the same as saying all rig workers who vote conservative do so just because they like material things. It's nonsense.

I'd like substantiation for this because it simply is not as much of a rule as you state.

You've just engaged in an elemental bias while stating such things are "nonsense".

While you will be able to find some studies that suggest a correlation between education and left wing I've always veered more to Hans Eyxenck, who posited that Learning and intelligence predisposes one to centrist views, and avoidance of extreme political views. Indeed, and jmo, Eysenck would be a good refresher for a lot of todays young practitioners of militant extremism. But they probably wouldn't like reading it or heeding it. Heres an interesting look at alternative theories that further the Eysenck model;

Intelligence And Politics Have a Complex Relationship

Historically speaking there is correlation between age and shift from Left to right that is well established in the literature. Its just as clear, or more, than any relationship between University Education and being status quo left.

Do we really become more conservative with age? | James Tilley

As somebody that was "idealistic" once, and there's a fair amount of us my age, and my education, similarly predisposed, the shift to right is notable, very notable. For some of the reasons already expressed in the thread, and regardless of education obtained.

Notwithstanding individuals that work their whole lives in ivory towers or academia. But most of us in life shift from idealistic to pragmatic principles, and with our mores and values still intact.

Personally, I tend to be fluid on the spectrum. Not fixated on one brand democracy. I'll vote for the better candidate, party, platform, at the time I assess them to be better.
 
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soothsayer

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Oct 27, 2009
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I'd like substantiation for this because it simply is not as much of a rule as you state.

You've just engaged in an elemental bias while stating such things are "nonsense".

While you will be able to find some studies that suggest a correlation between education and left wing I've always veered more to Hans Eyxenck, who posited that Learning and intelligence can predispose one to centrist views, and avoidance of extreme political views. Indeed, and jmo, Eysenck would be a good refresher for a lot of todays young practitioners of militant extremism. But they probably wouldn't like reading it or heeding it.

Historically speaking there is correlation between age and shift from Left to right that is well established in the literature. Its just as clear, or more, then any relationship between University Education and being status quo left.

Do we really become more conservative with age? | James Tilley

As somebody that was "idealistic" once, and there's a fair amount of us my age, and my education, similarly predisposed, the shift to right is notable, very notable. For some of the reasons already expressed in the thread, and regardless of education obtained.

Notwithstanding individuals that work their whole lives in ivory towers or academia. But most of us in life shift from idealistic to pragmatic principles, and with our mores and values still intact.

Personally, I tend to be fluid on the spectrum. Not fixated on one brand democracy. I'll vote for the better candidate, party, platform, at the time I assess them to be better.

There are a number of reports describing this trend that you can access through a quick google search. Try the Pew Research Center for one. You seem to be editing your post as you're going through Google searches, so I'll leave you to it. Elemental bias isn't a thing.
 

Drivesaitl

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There are a number of reports describing this trend that you can access through a quick google search. Try the Pew Research Center for one. You seem to be editing your post as you're going through Google searches, so I'll leave you to it. Elemental bias isn't a thing.

I'm only editing my post, as I always do, to check for grammatical mistakes, awkward wording, and to add such things as links for substantiation.

You seemingly conclude, posit it as established fact, and expect nobody is going to counter what you stated?

Of course you aware there are conflicting studies, results, findings, theories relative to our topic. You would know this. I've cited some rebuttal already.

I'm well aware of the literature, and the research on this topic. I have been for some 40 years.

It remains, that the correlation between Age and Conservatism is significant, and well established.
 

soothsayer

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
8,511
10,693
I'm only editing my post, as I always do, to check for grammatical mistakes, awkward wording, and to add such things as links for substantiation.

You seemingly conclude, posit it as established fact, and expect nobody is going to counter what you stated?

Of course you aware there are conflicting studies, results, findings, theories relative to our topic. You would know this. I've cited some rebuttal already.

I'm well aware of the literature, and the research on this topic. I have been for some 40 years.

It remains, that the correlation between Age and Conservatism is significant, and well established.

I kind of see the unfortunate direction this is going, so this will be my last post on this.

Your post grew from something like a single small paragraph to what it is now. I'm not playing whack-a-mole with you. I stated that the belief that college students are left-leaning because they are young and idealistic is wrong, because there is ample evidence which shows that people with university degrees tend to vote left more often than they vote right. I glanced at some of your links and I think you're going off on some weird track, and I'm not going to follow you there. To put it simply, I'm not saying people who lean left are smarter than people who lean right; I'm not saying people's political views don't soften or even change as they grow older. I'm saying that people who have university degrees vote left more often than they vote right, which means that the belief that students vote left purely because they are idealistic is just that, a belief--not based on evidence. I think you're trying to make more of this than it is.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,304
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Duck hunting
I kind of see the unfortunate direction this is going, so this will be my last post on this.

Your post grew from something like a single small paragraph to what it is now. I'm not playing whack-a-mole with you. I stated that the belief that college students are left-leaning because they are young and idealistic is wrong, because there is ample evidence which shows that people with university degrees tend to vote left more often than they vote right. I glanced at some of your links and I think you're going off on some weird track, and I'm not going to follow you there. To put it simply, I'm not saying people who lean left are smarter than people who lean right; I'm not saying people's political views don't soften or even change as they grow older. I'm saying that people who have university degrees vote left more often than they vote right, which means that the belief that students vote left purely because they are idealistic is just that, a belief--not based on evidence. I think you're trying to make more of this than it is.

Thanks for the clarification. Its way beyond a hockey board in anycase and better not to have the discussion further here.
 
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