The Oilers when McDavid's not on the ice

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Tokyo, Japan
Sorry if this has been hashed out several times already (as I suspect it has), but the Oilers are obviously not good without McDavid. In fact, they're barely average at this stage with him, possibly below average.

I'm just wondering, what are the actual numbers with and without McDavid on the ice, in terms of goals for and against (I'm not into any of that silly Corsi nonsense).
 

LTIR

Registered User
Nov 8, 2013
25,851
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Sorry if this has been hashed out several times already (as I suspect it has), but the Oilers are obviously not good without McDavid. In fact, they're barely average at this stage with him, possibly below average.

I'm just wondering, what are the actual numbers with and without McDavid on the ice, in terms of goals for and against (I'm not into any of that silly Corsi nonsense).
Well, the Oilers were a minus 3 with McDavid on the ice last night.
McD,Nuge,Nurse,Larsson were a combined -14
 
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Todd from Leduc

Connor “The Next Great One” McDavid
Nov 15, 2017
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As long as McDavid doesn’t get hurt we are fine, the League is going towards more of a basketball approach where you rely on a couple dominant skilled players to ride you through. I mean if we win the Cup are any of us really going to care that Connor was responsible for 60-70 percent of the goals?
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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upload_2018-12-23_8-17-20.gif


This is when he’s not on the ice.
 
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talitintti

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Oct 13, 2018
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Basically the best team in the league since 16-17 when he's on ice and the worst when he's not. Too lazy to get the numbers, but the 5vs5 goal differential is insane.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Well, the Oilers were a minus 3 with McDavid on the ice last night.
McD,Nuge,Nurse,Larsson were a combined -14

McDavid has long stints where he forgets to play two way hockey.

As an impact player he is far less effective than people here will ever admit. He is barely a positive player this year through almost half the year. With 52 points in the bank and typically always playing with Nuge or Draisaitl thats pretty bad.

He played this way last for stretches but finished extremely strong two way. He is not playing as well this year overall compared to last.

I can't help but feel he lets tge scoring race muddy up his two way game sometimes. Ironically enough, to me it seems his best point production clearly happens when he is playing good two way hockey.

Not sure if its cheating or lack of awareness but the last x games he has been down right bad in his own zone.

To be fair. Nurse and Larsson are obviously struggling without Russell and Klefbom. So there is a trickle down effect from those injuries.

But! Its also fair to McDavid has not been worth his absurd 12.5 million contract this year so far. Hope he can turn it around in the new year.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
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Well, the Oilers were a minus 3 with McDavid on the ice last night.
McD,Nuge,Nurse,Larsson were a combined -14


It happens, Tampa is a stacked team, and a lot of those goals were beauties. one was a direct giveaway by Pulju, so hard to blame everyone else for that, but they all get a minus on the play. Didn't help that Klef and Russell are out, and Hitch is playing the crap out of the top line. And when you're the best player and you lead night after night, but if you aren't involved in the scoring, and no one else can, it has to get depressing, year after year. I wouldn't be surprised if he quietly asks for a trade in a couple years if this nonsense keeps up, and I wouldn't blame him one bit.

This is a team with one superstar and a bunch of wannabes of various levels of talent. Well done, Chia.
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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As long as McDavid doesn’t get hurt we are fine, the League is going towards more of a basketball approach where you rely on a couple dominant skilled players to ride you through. I mean if we win the Cup are any of us really going to care that Connor was responsible for 60-70 percent of the goals?

And that is the very reason we won't win the cup, under that scenario. Until his GM provides some reasonable support, we are going to be spinning our wheels.
 

ConnorMcMullet

#12 Colby Cave
Jun 10, 2017
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McDavid has long stints where he forgets to play two way hockey.

As an impact player he is far less effective than people here will ever admit. He is barely a positive player this year through almost half the year. With 52 points in the bank and typically always playing with Nuge or Draisaitl thats pretty bad.

He played this way last for stretches but finished extremely strong two way. He is not playing as well this year overall compared to last.

I can't help but feel he lets tge scoring race muddy up his two way game sometimes. Ironically enough, to me it seems his best point production clearly happens when he is playing good two way hockey.

Not sure if its cheating or lack of awareness but the last x games he has been down right bad in his own zone.

To be fair. Nurse and Larsson are obviously struggling without Russell and Klefbom. So there is a trickle down effect from those injuries.

But! Its also fair to McDavid has not been worth his absurd 12.5 million contract this year so far. Hope he can turn it around in the new year.
I won't argue that he hasn't had his defensive lapses, but that's going to come with playing 24+ minutes a night of high-speed hockey.

Using his plus-minus against him is also invalid. The Oilers empty net GF to GA is awful. They've score 2 and allowed 10 or something like that. Not to mention McDavid is still a positive on a negative team.

He has absolutely been worth the 12.5 this year.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,204
21,401
I won't argue that he hasn't had his defensive lapses, but that's going to come with playing 24+ minutes a night of high-speed hockey.

Using his plus-minus against him is also invalid. The Oilers empty net GF to GA is awful. They've score 2 and allowed 10 or something like that. Not to mention McDavid is still a positive on a negative team.

He has absolutely been worth the 12.5 this year.


I'd argue he's worth even more than what he gets. As his coach says, other people on the team need to step up and help him out. I'm not entirely sure we're capable of that though. We've had a pretty large sample size already this year.
 

space321

Registered User
May 11, 2011
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McDavid has long stints where he forgets to play two way hockey.

As an impact player he is far less effective than people here will ever admit. He is barely a positive player this year through almost half the year. With 52 points in the bank and typically always playing with Nuge or Draisaitl thats pretty bad.

He played this way last for stretches but finished extremely strong two way. He is not playing as well this year overall compared to last.

I can't help but feel he lets tge scoring race muddy up his two way game sometimes. Ironically enough, to me it seems his best point production clearly happens when he is playing good two way hockey.

Not sure if its cheating or lack of awareness but the last x games he has been down right bad in his own zone.

To be fair. Nurse and Larsson are obviously struggling without Russell and Klefbom. So there is a trickle down effect from those injuries.

But! Its also fair to McDavid has not been worth his absurd 12.5 million contract this year so far. Hope he can turn it around in the new year.

Gonna need some stats to back your statements up.

I see this place has finally started to question McDavid. It's only a matter of time before we start putting him in the same category as Taylor Hall lol. Attitude problems, trade him.
 

Mez

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Nov 16, 2017
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well, take 12 million worth of players off of any team and most of them will be bad... there are a few exceptions.
 
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Niten Ichi Ryu

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Jul 1, 2018
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From November 27 to December 14, the Oilers played 10 games. They had just one regulation loss in that span, against Dallas, and that was the one game McDavid was out
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
72,141
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I posted the record in games where McDavid scores a point versus where he doesn't, and the Oilers are hilariously bad in games where McDavid doesn't score, it's pretty much an automatic loss.

There's no player in the current NHL or probably even modern NHL history where if he has a poor game and is scoreless it's pretty much a guaranteed loss for the team.

Plus minus thing is also overblown ...

He was +8 at the Christmas break in 16-17

He was +9 at the Christmas break in 17-18

He was +7 going into the Tampa game, it just happened that game he was -3 and it skews things abnormally to only +4.

But he's been at about the same range every single one of the last three years at this time of year.
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,141
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McDavid has long stints where he forgets to play two way hockey.

As an impact player he is far less effective than people here will ever admit. He is barely a positive player this year through almost half the year. With 52 points in the bank and typically always playing with Nuge or Draisaitl thats pretty bad.

He played this way last for stretches but finished extremely strong two way. He is not playing as well this year overall compared to last.

I can't help but feel he lets tge scoring race muddy up his two way game sometimes. Ironically enough, to me it seems his best point production clearly happens when he is playing good two way hockey.

Not sure if its cheating or lack of awareness but the last x games he has been down right bad in his own zone.

To be fair. Nurse and Larsson are obviously struggling without Russell and Klefbom. So there is a trickle down effect from those injuries.

But! Its also fair to McDavid has not been worth his absurd 12.5 million contract this year so far. Hope he can turn it around in the new year.



This team would finish with 60 points and win the Hughes lottery if McDavid wasn't here, yes, you could give them $25 million in cap room if you want and it wouldn't mean a damn thing because no good player in their right mind would sign here but stiffs like James Neal if you paid him like $7.5 million and then get suckered by Maroon's agent into signing him for $5 million and there goes your whopping cap room. Stop kidding yourself.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Gonna need some stats to back your statements up.

I see this place has finally started to question McDavid. It's only a matter of time before we start putting him in the same category as Taylor Hall lol. Attitude problems, trade him.

I question McDavid because of his gross cap hit. That's a lot of coin in one guy. Sure plus minus isn't a good stat but with the eye test it "currently" paints a poor picture for McDavids relative effectiveness.

However I am not questioning his abilities. Everyone knows he is amazing. Generational... at this exact point in time... That's actually a tough sell. So many ahead in the scoring race. So many outplaying his relative effectiveness.

If he comes back like he did last year at this point, great. But if he doesn't. That's bad.

Overall this team isnt as bad as so many make it out your be either. Right now I feel like our team is a remake of the Minnesota Wild when the only talented player they had was Marion Gaborik. A whole team coached to basically have one guy as the offensive catalyst and everyone else is coached just to clog up the game.

And as mentioned not having 3/4 of your top 4 defenders will hurt any individuals stats and eye test significantly. A true excuse for McDavid but also proving my point. One players does not make a team.

I think it's pretty obvious McDavid is "struggling" right now for whatever reason while still playing good to great hockey.

No reason to get all melodramatic and insinuate I want him traded.

I like the lines from last game. Hope Hitchcock goes back to that for at least another game. But if that doesn't work either I would love to see the big three run thier own lines. Spread the wealth out and get those guys earning thier pay.

Spooner McDavid XXX (Rattie, Zykov, Marody, whoever)
Rieder Draisaitl Chaison
Kharia Nuge Puljujarvi
Lucic Brodziach Kassian

Force McDavid to earn his pay and equally important get all 4 lines at a point where they can contribute. Play more as team.
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
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I think it's pretty obvious McDavid is "struggling" right now for whatever reason while still playing good to great hockey.
Pretty astute observation there. So, let's see...

-- working on a third scoring title
-- has the most points in 35 games of any Oiler player since the 80s
-- on pace for his best season ever
-- he's an overall +21 on a team that's a -9 collectively

If only the struggling would end and McDavid would rise up to Lucic's level!
 
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Missing smitty

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Oct 1, 2018
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I question McDavid because of his gross cap hit. That's a lot of coin in one guy. Sure plus minus isn't a good stat but with the eye test it "currently" paints a poor picture for McDavids relative effectiveness.

However I am not questioning his abilities. Everyone knows he is amazing. Generational... at this exact point in time... That's actually a tough sell. So many ahead in the scoring race. So many outplaying his relative effectiveness.

If he comes back like he did last year at this point, great. But if he doesn't. That's bad.

Overall this team isnt as bad as so many make it out your be either. Right now I feel like our team is a remake of the Minnesota Wild when the only talented player they had was Marion Gaborik. A whole team coached to basically have one guy as the offensive catalyst and everyone else is coached just to clog up the game.

And as mentioned not having 3/4 of your top 4 defenders will hurt any individuals stats and eye test significantly. A true excuse for McDavid but also proving my point. One players does not make a team.

I think it's pretty obvious McDavid is "struggling" right now for whatever reason while still playing good to great hockey.

No reason to get all melodramatic and insinuate I want him traded.

I like the lines from last game. Hope Hitchcock goes back to that for at least another game. But if that doesn't work either I would love to see the big three run thier own lines. Spread the wealth out and get those guys earning thier pay.

Spooner McDavid XXX (Rattie, Zykov, Marody, whoever)
Rieder Draisaitl Chaison
Kharia Nuge Puljujarvi
Lucic Brodziach Kassian

Force McDavid to earn his pay and equally important get all 4 lines at a point where they can contribute. Play more as team.

McDavid has the same percentage of the cap that Crosby did when he signed his contract. If you think he isn't earning his pay with guys waterskiing off of him, you don't know hockey.
 

The Hound

Registered User
Oct 10, 2015
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However I am not questioning his abilities. Everyone knows he is amazing. Generational... at this exact point in time... That's actually a tough sell. So many ahead in the scoring race. So many outplaying his relative effectiveness.

I think it's pretty obvious McDavid is "struggling" right now for whatever reason while still playing good to great hockey.
He plays against defenders so far up his ass 24/7 and can’t get a call, so of course it’s harder to have 4+ point nights.

Look at the lines and rosters of the few people - barely - ahead of him and compare. MacK and Rants are dynamite, that Landeskog fellow isn’t too bad himself.

McDavid on a team like Tampa or Toronto would have 80 points at the least by now. Imagine our offense if he was injured, now ask yourself if his effectiveness is truly getting outclassed or not.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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He plays against defenders so far up his ass 24/7 and can’t get a call, so of course it’s harder to have 4+ point nights.

Look at the lines and rosters of the few people - barely - ahead of him and compare. MacK and Rants are dynamite, that Landeskog fellow isn’t too bad himself.

McDavid on a team like Tampa or Toronto would have 80 points at the least by now. Imagine our offense if he was injured, now ask yourself if his effectiveness is truly getting outclassed or not.

McDavid on Tampa wouldn't have 80 points... that's absurd.

McDavid playing with RNH or Draisaitl's is already incredible. It's not like McDavid is playing with scrubs.

A big reason the Colorado line has gone awesome is chemistry. Not just talent. Find someone that has chemistry with McDavid & Draisaitl or Nuge McDavid or just run Nuge McDavid Drai and while McDavid + line mates will improve but only marginally.

McDavid with Hall was terrible. Oil and water. Just didn't work as an example.
 

oXo Cube

Power Play Merchant
Nov 4, 2008
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It's crazy how every time McDavid has a less than stellar game these sorts of haters come out of the woodwork.

The jealousy is real.
 
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The Hound

Registered User
Oct 10, 2015
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McDavid on Tampa wouldn't have 80 points... that's absurd.

McDavid playing with RNH or Draisaitl's is already incredible. It's not like McDavid is playing with scrubs.

A big reason the Colorado line has gone awesome is chemistry. Not just talent. Find someone that has chemistry with McDavid & Draisaitl or Nuge McDavid or just run Nuge McDavid Drai and while McDavid + line mates will improve but only marginally.

McDavid with Hall was terrible. Oil and water. Just didn't work as an example.
Everyone knows chemistry is important :laugh: just watch when Drai isn’t playing with McDavid most of the time. I was saying if he was in a situation where he had both chemistry and talent, a d-core that can actually consistently breakout and feed him stretch passes, he’d have a disgusting number of points. I used Tampa and Toronto as an example.

Who was the shooter on the Mclellan’s given up line again?
All 3 are pass first, all 3 are centers. What happens to the rest of our offense with all 3 together? McDavid has played with Drai and a bottom 6 player for most of his career and has 2 Art Ross trophies, that’s absurd to me. Who knows what he’d put up on a line with a top 6 winger that fully clicks, I’m willing to bet it’s quite a bit more than 108.
 

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