The Official Tank Thread III
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
Part of it (Jimmy D). Holland was just on the radio talking about his goal is to make the playoffs every year and how your goal can't be the Stanley Cup.
So when you have Holland saying things like that and Jimmy D saying how you can only get the needed superstars by drafting early I find it pretty conflicting and as a result am not overly optimistic by just this article.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
Jimmy D sounds like he's got his head in the right place. I don't trust Holland to do right by a rebuild, though. He's really into shortcuts and half measures.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Yeah that article finally seems to indicate they're accepting reality. That's pretty important for this team going forward.
Red Stanley
Registered User
Looking at this roster going forward, the only way they make the POs next year is if the Atlantic is just as horrible as it was this season AND the team overperforms. Neither one of these is very likely to be the case. You can either sleep well at night secure in this knowledge, or you could keep on taking every single word he says in public at face value, because it fuels your dislike of him.
Also, you can't go around saying your goal is the Stanley Cup when you don't have a competitive roster. In fact, you don't say that period regardless how good your roster is.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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What Jimmy D is saying is exactly what they should all be saying.
Jimmy D is saying we are going to do a re-build, however long that takes.
Holland has been saying re-builds take too long and he doesn't want to do it.
Weird... I thought Holland was only fighting re-building because he was "following orders".
Jimmy D is saying we are going to do a re-build, however long that takes.
Holland has been saying re-builds take too long and he doesn't want to do it.
Weird... I thought Holland was only fighting re-building because he was "following orders".
Syckle78
Registered User
Maybe I'm just old, but this news means nothing to me. And I'm betting that the weight of Devellano's opinion has lessened more and more over time when it comes to the top brass like Holland.
Maybe y'all don't remember, but Devellano was the guy saying around 2006 that Wings fans should lower their expectations but that "in a few years, they would be back to knocking on the door" or something very similar to that. Holland corralled that comment real fast with statements about how the team had no intention of deviating from their goal of winning the Cup.
Devellano has always been the Smee to Holland's Captain Hook. He's the idiot savant of the Wings front office. He makes semi-scandalous statements to the press that the rest of the organization then reigns in over the following weeks. I wish I could believe that this article means anything but I take it with a massive grain of salt knowing that its sourced from Jimmy D.
See comments above.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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"We tried to patch and keep it going, whether it be Brad Richards, Mike Green or Frans Nielsen, and I could go on and on, we've done a lot of that over the years to try to keep the team competitive. They're all good, hard-working pieces, but they aren't superstars, and the only way you get superstars is by drafting early."
Somebody tattoo this on Ken Holland's forehead.
Somebody tattoo this on Ken Holland's forehead.
Precisely the reason I'm not publishing an extra about how the Wings are poised to truly rebuild based on JD's comments. Holland has already pinned his reputation on being a short-term rebound type of GM. If not making the playoffs stands for this year and next, I expect a turn-about or a retirement-induced change in 2-3 years, but until then, I won't hold my breath - be it for success, a rebuild, or an organizational change.
Just looked at that for fun but Larkin is 3rd worst in +/- rating with -30 what do you guys have to say about that is it just the ''sophomore'' year or more than that !? Did we expected too much from Larkin?
iDangleDangle
We Like Our Team
I think the 1st half of his rookie season did fool a lot of us. Larkin's offensive arsenal is fairly limited, and he hasn't shown any capability of broadening it. It's all speed speed speed.
The constant line and position shuffling by Blash hasn't helped, but I'd be weary in placing Larkin's ceiling higher than top end 2nd line C.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
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Completely agree. The kid needs a very versatile center to really work with him in the offseason, and realize that being a one trick pony is a great way to get your ice time cut.
And a coach that actually plays him at center, but that's another story.
It's weird to see Devellano talk about not being able to replace Z and Datsyuk based on where we're drafting.
That said, whatever actually happens and whoever actually 'wins', it's nice to hear that someone in the front office realizes this might take a few years to turn around, and that signing a bunch of plugs to back into the playoffs isn't really good for the franchise.
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Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
I guess we're going to see how much influence Jimmy D. really has. I have a hunch Holland doesn't feel the sentiment quite so acutely.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
[Despite having a bevy of high draft picks, it took a generational player, Connor McDavid, to put the Oilers over the top]
"To some degree, when I arrived in 1982 to a bad franchise, when I got Yzerman in '83 in my first draft, it was night and day," Devellano said. "He made a big impact right away -- 39 goals as an 18-year-old. I don't think you can put time (frame) on things. There's some luck involved. By luck, I mean the ability to get that kind of franchise player - (Sidney) Crosby, McDavid, Yzerman, (Mario) Lemieux. You get that type of player and the rebuild moves quickly.
"But I'm told that player isn't in the draft this year (eek!) There are good players, but (not) the guy that moves the needle -- Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane and (Jonathan) Toews coming in and all the sudden the team that was bad got good in a hurry.
"Truthfully, and I said I wouldn't put a time (frame) on it, it would be nice if you could accomplish something in three years. But you're going to need some luck."
- Jimmy D.
I think 3 years is the very best possible rebuild if you are the most luckiest ******* in the world and can catch lighting in a bottle, even then I still have my doubts. I think realistically it could take as long as it took Oilers. And that is what should be expected. Figure if you tank, a franchise player should come along about every 5 to 10 years. But the question is... do you win the lottery and draft him, or are you drafting #5 -#10 that specific year?
I like how Ken Holland did 2016/17 season. And that was to sign UFA and shoot for the playoffs, and when the hope was gone, sold them for a million picks. While #1 overall is the dream, it's also less likely. Having seven 2md and 3rd rounders might snag you a franchise player nobody knew was going to develop (i.e., Duncan Keith).
While Oilers is proving what it takes to rebuild, TML is *may* possibly be on it's way what it might look like if you catch lightning in a bottle... even though they are lots a pieces away from being a true contender. What they've done could just as easily fall apart in the next few years.
"To some degree, when I arrived in 1982 to a bad franchise, when I got Yzerman in '83 in my first draft, it was night and day," Devellano said. "He made a big impact right away -- 39 goals as an 18-year-old. I don't think you can put time (frame) on things. There's some luck involved. By luck, I mean the ability to get that kind of franchise player - (Sidney) Crosby, McDavid, Yzerman, (Mario) Lemieux. You get that type of player and the rebuild moves quickly.
"But I'm told that player isn't in the draft this year (eek!) There are good players, but (not) the guy that moves the needle -- Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane and (Jonathan) Toews coming in and all the sudden the team that was bad got good in a hurry.
"Truthfully, and I said I wouldn't put a time (frame) on it, it would be nice if you could accomplish something in three years. But you're going to need some luck."
- Jimmy D.
I think 3 years is the very best possible rebuild if you are the most luckiest ******* in the world and can catch lighting in a bottle, even then I still have my doubts. I think realistically it could take as long as it took Oilers. And that is what should be expected. Figure if you tank, a franchise player should come along about every 5 to 10 years. But the question is... do you win the lottery and draft him, or are you drafting #5 -#10 that specific year?
I like how Ken Holland did 2016/17 season. And that was to sign UFA and shoot for the playoffs, and when the hope was gone, sold them for a million picks. While #1 overall is the dream, it's also less likely. Having seven 2md and 3rd rounders might snag you a franchise player nobody knew was going to develop (i.e., Duncan Keith).
While Oilers is proving what it takes to rebuild, TML is *may* possibly be on it's way what it might look like if you catch lightning in a bottle... even though they are lots a pieces away from being a true contender. What they've done could just as easily fall apart in the next few years.
Syckle78
Registered User
5 to 10 years for a franchise player to come around but you can snag one with a 2nd or 3rd round pick... Ok.
Those who think Holland will try and make playoffs next year, what do you actually think Holland can do about it?
No players will hit free agency that will help us, we tried that last summer with plugs and it failed
No chance our underachieving players rebound AND at the same time teams like Florida, Tampa and Philly all underachieve again
No chance Vegas takes a big enough contract off our books to free up cap space
No chance any impact dman Dan is made available AND we have the assets to acwuire ( we don't, we haven't and we wont)
No players will hit free agency that will help us, we tried that last summer with plugs and it failed
No chance our underachieving players rebound AND at the same time teams like Florida, Tampa and Philly all underachieve again
No chance Vegas takes a big enough contract off our books to free up cap space
No chance any impact dman Dan is made available AND we have the assets to acwuire ( we don't, we haven't and we wont)
theD86
Winging it
The Wings should build like the Blue Jackets have. Draft. Build your core through the draft. Make a meaningful trade here and there.
Draft and let the kids grow & gel in G.R.
Draft and let the kids grow & gel in G.R.
Heaton
Moderator
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
- 10,967
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And it's not like there will be zero reasons to cheer for the team if they embrace a rebuild. Assuming there isn't a great reason to trade Mantha, AA, etc., there are some young players worth watching, and hopefully there will be a few more in the near future. And as each bad contract comes off the books, the team can start to make the smart add here and there.
Will the first 2-3 seasons have a win total very much like this one? Probably. But I'd much rather see that win total while watching the kids grow, than while watching veteran plugs be mediocre.
hyduK
Registered User
- Feb 21, 2009
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- 584
He won't be able to get us to the playoffs. That said, he could very well try and handcuff us with another contract in the process.
