The Official Tank Thread / Draft Lottery Thread

[Habs100]

Yup - a top-5 pick would be a great start towards rebuilding. Next, we've gotta trade for other teams' 1st-round picks in the next two drafts. Nobody's trading away their 1st this year, but there's a decent chance we could grab a 2018 or 19 1st-round pick. Great gambles would be Vegas, Chicago or Anaheim -- teams that are currently in playoff mode that might collapse next year.

In Gauthier's last year, I was hoping he would trade Eric Cole for Anaheim's first. I was also hoping we'd trade Plekanec for Washington's 10th overall pick the year we drafted Chucky. They were looking for a center and instead traded a 2nd for Ribeiro. Both Plekanec and Cole were good at the time, but getting up there in years.

The only player we have now that is close to that situation is Pacioretty. He's 29, but in today's NHL that means probably only 2 to 3 more years of high production. If we were guaranteed to get a young player with a 15 year career ahead of him, it would be worth it. Of course, the problem is when you trade for a draft pick, it's a gamble where it will wind up and what the player will become.

Other than that Plekanec and Byron could be used in a package to try to land the type of pick you're talking about. But it would take more than that. And I get the feeling in today's market, teams aren't willing to trade 1sts for those types of players.

 

[yianik]

In Gauthier's last year, I was hoping he would trade Eric Cole for Anaheim's first. I was also hoping we'd trade Plekanec for Washington's 10th overall pick the year we drafted Chucky. They were looking for a center and instead traded a 2nd for Ribeiro. Both Plekanec and Cole were good at the time, but getting up there in years.

The only player we have now that is close to that situation is Pacioretty. He's 29, but in today's NHL that means probably only 2 to 3 more years of high production. If we were guaranteed to get a young player with a 15 year career ahead of him, it would be worth it. Of course, the problem is when you trade for a draft pick, it's a gamble where it will wind up and what the player will become.

Other than that Plekanec and Byron could be used in a package to try to land the type of pick you're talking about. But it would take more than that. And I get the feeling in today's market, teams aren't willing to trade 1sts for those types of players.

What we know is that statistically about 90% plus of top 6 centres are found only in the top 2 rounds of the draft and the bulk of those are taken in the top half of round one. Elite centres are at pick no.1, and true number one centres in that top few to 5 or 6.

So if we want a true top centre that's where we need to draft. Generally we are nowhere near there.

Look at the Rangers. Last year they moved a solid no.2C for the 7th overall to pick off a blue chip centre with 1C potential. They also picked a C at 21st with top line potential.

The Rangers I think concluded their chances at a Cup needed a more offensively capable centre than they had. So instead of plodding along they went for it. Risk yes, but they want the Cup.

So I agree with you. Even if not doing a full out rebuild we need to take chances like this to have the opportunityof having top players at the most important positions.

 

[Garnet76]

The issue I have had is the concept pitched to the fans that we need to make the playoffs and anything can happen. Technically this is correct but the odds are terrible. My opinion is your either all in for a cup or your building a stanley cup contender. This in between that has been pushed on us for the last 20+ yrs is ridiculous!
This franchise used to have a lot of pride and glory for itself but now the owner is selling that, instead of a real product on the ice.

 

[Price is Wright]

The NHL should be 6-8 teams with a legitimate shot at the cup, 6-8 teams that are not there yet but could be (or used to be), and the rest are teams trying to develop into a contender.

Instead you got maybe 3-4 contenders, 3-4 teams trying to develop into a contender, and the rest are just middle of the road teams that need a bit more to add if they want to be taken seriously. And this is why the Penguins, Blackhawks, and Kings have pretty much dominated the past 10 years. When there's so few true contenders, it's not so hard to get back to the conference final. You're rarely facing a team built to beat you. Just teams built to win 40 games in the regular season.

 

[Censored Toad]

Matthews would be an awesome winger for us.

you mean stay at home defensemen.....

 

[Lshap]

The issue I have had is the concept pitched to the fans that we need to make the playoffs and anything can happen. Technically this is correct but the odds are terrible. My opinion is your either all in for a cup or your building a stanley cup contender. This in between that has been pushed on us for the last 20+ yrs is ridiculous!
This franchise used to have a lot of pride and glory for itself but now the owner is selling that, instead of a real product on the ice.

The 2013/14 ECF run was worth it, especially considering the might-have-beens if Price hadn't been run by that Rangers idiot. In that case, anything could have happened, and almost did.

Otherwise, I think most of us agree it's a waste of time to squeak into the playoffs hoping the Red Sea parts for us. That includes management. Sure, they'll utter optimistic soundbites to the media because you can't denigrate the show for fans, but the Habs will be selling assets and restocking for the future. Nobody's thinking about playoffs in this city.

Who they have in charge of the selling and restocking is another story, naturally.

 

[Tabarouette]

Sure, they'll utter optimistic soundbites to the media because you can't denigrate the show for fans, but the Habs will be selling assets and restocking for the future. Nobody's thinking about playoffs in this city.

That's the biggest issue I have tho... That's why i'm starting to HATE this team, because of the PR mumbo jumbo. Stop telling me it's not over till it's over and stop insulting my intelligence. I'm getting passed the cynical phase and going straight into "f*** this team" territory, and i've been a fan all my life

I think anyone that doesn't idolize old guard idiots like Rejean Tremblay would appreciate a little honesty right about now

 

[PecnoTrunk]

People are delusional here thinking we will draft 4/5

They are positioning us to draft 7-9

This way they can sell to the fans joe Valeno the centre from Quebec

 

[Lshap]

That's the biggest issue I have tho... That's why i'm starting to HATE this team, because of the PR mumbo jumbo. Stop telling me it's not over till it's over and stop insulting my intelligence. I'm getting passed the cynical phase and going straight into "**** this team" territory, and i've been a fan all my life

I think anyone that doesn't idolize old guard idiots like Rejean Tremblay would appreciate a little honesty right about now

There are two games: The 60-minute game on the ice that includes high-priced tickets, loud music, marketing campaigns, and goal horns; and there's the game behind the game, that includes analytics, prospects, staff, management, cap space, etc. All the PR is focused on the former. There's too much invested in marketing the team and maintaining the 'show' at the Bell Centre to turn press-conferences into fact-based audits. PR is mumbo-jumbo aimed at ticket-buying, merch-wearing casual fans. We diehards on HF have to get our info elsewhere.

 

[Tabarouette]

There are two games: The 60-minute game on the ice that includes high-priced tickets, loud music, marketing campaigns, and goal horns; and there's the game behind the game, that includes analytics, prospects, staff, management, cap space, etc. All the PR is focused on the former. There's too much invested in marketing the team and maintaining the 'show' at the Bell Centre to turn press-conferences into fact-based audits. PR is mumbo-jumbo aimed at ticket-buying, merch-wearing casual fans. We diehards on HF have to get our info elsewhere.

The thing is that's also hurting. The casual fans are also affected by the cynicism and the stands aren't full. Ratings are down, attendance is down, everything is going down right now and that's a slippery slope. It's harder to build hype than it is to maintain it, they rode the centenaire marketing campaign all the way till last year or so

 

[RealityBytes]

Word is that during the Matthews lottery, Montreal was like one number away from landing the first overall pick.

Well considering the way the lottery works, there were twelve other picks from other teams that were also "one number away." It doesn't count for anything though, it's like being close to winning the 6/49 but only missing with two numbers.

(14 numbered balls in the lottery)

 

[sandviper]

Tonight:

Ducks vs Leafs
Preds vs Isles
Rangers vs Stars
Bolts vs Oilers

Only the Oilers game (need them to win) I think is of note as a win by them ties them with us in points and they'll have 2-games in hand. Wins by the Rags, Isles and Ducks will keep their distance from us. However, a win by the Ducks also keep our playoff hopes alive as long as we extend our undefeated February streak.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The way the lottery is structured, 1st pick is not anything any team should be counting on. But we can all hope, some lucky dog is going to win.

A lucky, LOYAL dog.

 

[Sorinth]

The NHL should be 6-8 teams with a legitimate shot at the cup, 6-8 teams that are not there yet but could be (or used to be), and the rest are teams trying to develop into a contender.

Instead you got maybe 3-4 contenders, 3-4 teams trying to develop into a contender, and the rest are just middle of the road teams that need a bit more to add if they want to be taken seriously. And this is why the Penguins, Blackhawks, and Kings have pretty much dominated the past 10 years. When there's so few true contenders, it's not so hard to get back to the conference final. You're rarely facing a team built to beat you. Just teams built to win 40 games in the regular season.

Well in the past 5 years, 8 different teams reached the cup finals. Wouldn't that imply that you have your 6-8 teams who have legitimate shots at the cup?

 

[Price is Wright]

Well in the past 5 years, 8 different teams reached the cup finals. Wouldn't that imply that you have your 6-8 teams who have legitimate shots at the cup?

Just because you make the Cup final doesn't mean you're a legitimate contender. The Sharks, Lightning, Rangers, Bruins, Devils, Canucks, and Flyers all tumbled after they made the final. Tampa is the only one that's really rebounded. Boston did a retooling and is looking good again. Almost all of these teams have had a retooling or rebuild. Nobody really looks at the Sharks as a Cup contender even though they were in the final just two years ago. Nashville actually does look like a contender but it will remain to be seen if they can get back to the final.

The Top 5 in the league right now is Tampa, Vegas, Winnipeg, Boston, and Nashville. I'd say only Tampa and Nashville feel like real contenders. Vegas is a total wildcard, the Jets will depend on if Hellebyuck is the real deal, and the Bruins... feels too early. But maybe they are. Teams like the Blues and Capitals need to prove something in the playoffs if they want to be treated like a real contender. Otherwise they are just great regular season teams.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Tonight:

Ducks vs Leafs
Preds vs Isles
Rangers vs Stars
Bolts vs Oilers

Only the Oilers game (need them to win) I think is of note as a win by them ties them with us in points and they'll have 2-games in hand. Wins by the Rags, Isles and Ducks will keep their distance from us. However, a win by the Ducks also keep our playoff hopes alive as long as we extend our undefeated February streak.

Habs need Leafs to win. Because with Anaheim losing, LA remains 3rd in the Atlantic. Habs need LA to qualify so the 5th becomes a 4th.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Exactly.

We drafted Sergachev. People kept going on and on about him so i was somewhat excited. Then he came to Montreal, didn't do much at all (Mete has been better/more exciting this year than Serg last year...) and my expectations/excitement for him went way down.

When we traded him for Drouin? I was excited. Always felt Drouin had untapped potential (still do).

Yet as soon as Sergachev is traded....he establishes himself in the NHL as an excellent player.

Was he just not ready last year - or is it that we suck so bad at developing/showcasing players. It had to be the latter...

Waaaait.. you were down on Serge because he didnt impress as an 18 yold??? No wonder you still believe the Habs have a chance at a playoff spot, you're entirely irrealistic with your expectations

 

[Sorinth]

Just because you make the Cup final doesn't mean you're a legitimate contender. The Sharks, Lightning, Rangers, Bruins, Devils, Canucks, and Flyers all tumbled after they made the final. Tampa is the only one that's really rebounded. Boston did a retooling and is looking good again. Almost all of these teams have had a retooling or rebuild. Nobody really looks at the Sharks as a Cup contender even though they were in the final just two years ago. Nashville actually does look like a contender but it will remain to be seen if they can get back to the final.

The Top 5 in the league right now is Tampa, Vegas, Winnipeg, Boston, and Nashville. I'd say only Tampa and Nashville feel like real contenders. Vegas is a total wildcard, the Jets will depend on if Hellebyuck is the real deal, and the Bruins... feels too early. But maybe they are. Teams like the Blues and Capitals need to prove something in the playoffs if they want to be treated like a real contender. Otherwise they are just great regular season teams.

If you made it to the finals you were at the very least a contender that year.

But here's the thing, you have it in your head that there are only 3-4 contenders, so you pick your 3-4 favourites and say see these are the only contenders. It's just circular logic.

If you really wanted to go through the excersise go through each team and give them the odds of winning the cup then see what types of groups form.

 

[Price is Wright]

If you made it to the finals you were at the very least a contender that year.

In theory? Sure.

But in 1996, it didn't matter if the Florida Panthers faced the Avalanche or the Red Wings. They were getting steamrolled. Same with Washington in 98. They really didn't belong in the final, a weak Eastern Conference allowed it, and the result was pretty clear. It wasn't until the Devils started spending money that the East got a contender again, after Pittsburgh basically imploded.

 

[Sorinth]

In theory? Sure.

But in 1996, it didn't matter if the Florida Panthers faced the Avalanche or the Red Wings. They were getting steamrolled. Same with Washington in 98. They really didn't belong in the final, a weak Eastern Conference allowed it, and the result was pretty clear. It wasn't until the Devils started spending money that the East got a contender again, after Pittsburgh basically imploded.

Well having to go back more then 20 years justs shows the exception that proves the rule. And really with a little luck things easily turn out differently. When Tampa won before the lockout a lot of that was because Edmonton's goalie got injured and derailed their Cinderalla run.

 

[Price is Wright]

Well having to go back more then 20 years justs shows the exception that proves the rule. And really with a little luck things easily turn out differently. When Tampa won before the lockout a lot of that was because Edmonton's goalie got injured and derailed their Cinderalla run.

Sure, with a little luck everything changes. You can describe every hockey game ever played that way. Doesn't change the fact those teams weren't built contenders. They were very good teams that with enough grease could slip into the final. Had the Rangers, Flyers, or Devils won the Cup those years we would remember them as the worst teams to ever win the Stanley Cup.

 

[The Great Weal]

We drop one spot after oilers win

 

[Adam Michaels]

We drop one spot after oilers win

I know some panicked when Habs won both weekend games and moved up a few spots. But each team Habs moved ahead of, Oilers being one of them, all had either two or three games in hand. Edmonton, who had 3 games in hand before last night, won and moved ahead of Habs again, and now still have 2 games in hand.

 

[Lshap]

I know some panicked when Habs won both weekend games and moved up a few spots. But each team Habs moved ahead of, Oilers being one of them, all had either two or three games in hand. Edmonton, who had 3 games in hand before last night, won and moved ahead of Habs again, and now still have 2 games in hand.

More fundamentally, we've got to accept that even the worst teams will win at least another dozen games before the season is put out of its misery. So will we. It's not a race to the bottom, it's a gradual surrendering to gravity.

 

[yianik]

Well considering the way the lottery works, there were twelve other picks from other teams that were also "one number away." It doesn't count for anything though, it's like being close to winning the 6/49 but only missing with two numbers.

(14 numbered balls in the lottery)

Good.

Thinking we were that close sucked