The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[Agent Zub]

He is a dime a dozen prospect that was hyped into being a top line prospect after the trade cause he did well in a 2nd tier Sweden league

no he was a mid 2nd round pick who immediately raised his value the following season by dominating a men's league.

 

[Karl Prime]

He is a dime a dozen prospect that was hyped into being a top line prospect after the trade cause he did well in a 2nd tier Sweden league

Dorion said he thought about him as a first rounder after the draft. If you think he's a dime-a-dozen prospect than you think Balcers and Chlapik are too.

 

[HSF]

Dorion said he thought about him as a first rounder after the draft. If you think he's a dime-a-dozen prospect than you think Balcers and Chlapik are too.

I think balcers is above both

Chalpik is probably a depth NHL player . So yes dime a dozen . Everyone has comparable prospects like that . If you wanna use that argument look how overhyped dahlen become on these boards after the trade compared to chlapik when both are similar

Dorion can say that like any other GM's does after a draft but he also traded him so clearly his opinion started to change as he developed

 

[Karl Prime]

I think balcers is above both

Chalpik is probably a depth NHL player . So yes dime a dozen . Everyone has comparable prospects like that . If you wanna use that argument look how overhyped dahlen become on these boards after the trade compared to chlapik when both are similar

Dorion can say that like any other GM's does after a draft but he also traded him so clearly his opinion started to change as he developed

Last I checked, having good young depth players like Chlapik or Dahlen who could potentially produce in the bottom six is a good thing, especially for a budget team without many scoring options.

 

[HSF]

Last I checked, having good young depth players like Chlapik or Dahlen who could potentially produce in the bottom six is a good thing, especially for a budget team without many scoring options.

Ya except we were going for a cup now it wouldn't make sense but at the time even if the value was a little off dahlen become so overhyped by ppl here it was crazy

 

[JungleBeat]

He played a huge part in Ottawa's drive to the Conference Final, as well as being stellar the first full year we had him. It was an excellent acquisition and then an even better trade when he was done.

 

[Silencio]

I can respect the Burrows trade as an attempt to finally get the Gary Roberts-type battle hardened playoff vet that Ottawa never managed to pull the trigger on in previous playoff drives. It was a gamble that almost paid off, and I'm not losing any sleep over Jonathan f***ing Dahlen.

The Zibanejad deal on the other hand....that one's gonna sting for a while.

 

[SpezDispenser]

He did not play a huge part. Karlsson, Anderson, Ryan, Methot, and Pageau played a huge part. Burrows played a bit part.

I watched, he played a big part in my eyes. Calmed the defence down from the moment we got him. People think that only PPG players are worth anything in the playoffs. It's amusing.

 

[SpezDispenser]

God, it's scary how short people's memories are. If you don't think Phaneuf didn't come to Ottawa and made his presence felt (in a positive way) in his first year, we have a difference in opinion and it's not worth wasting time talking about it.

 

[SpezDispenser]

The result of your “excellent acquisition” is us paying Gaborik and Phaneuf not to play for us.

LTIR

 

[inthewings]

I think balcers is above both

Chalpik is probably a depth NHL player . So yes dime a dozen . Everyone has comparable prospects like that . If you wanna use that argument look how overhyped dahlen become on these boards after the trade compared to chlapik when both are similar

Dorion can say that like any other GM's does after a draft but he also traded him so clearly his opinion started to change as he developed

Did you post here at the time? Dahlen didn’t start getting hyped after the trade. People’s excitement about him increased linearly with his consistent development after being drafted.

 

[HSF]

Did you post here at the time? Dahlen didn’t start getting hyped after the trade. People’s excitement about him increased linearly with his consistent development after being drafted.

No it didn't he was literally considered the same as chlapik at the time of the trade last year did his Claire sky rocket in the eyes of ppl here cause of his season in a tier 2 league

I'm not saying that we didn't overpay but he became so overated just like most depth prospects here like peumpel prince noesen

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No it didn't he was literally considered the same as chlapik at the time of the trade last year did his Claire sky rocket in the eyes of ppl here cause of his season in a tier 2 league

I'm not saying that we didn't overpay but he became so overated just like most depth prospects here like peumpel prince noesen

No one here thought he was a surefire top line juggernaut.

We drafted him. Then he had a great draft+1 year. Therefore, people got excited.

 

[HSF]

No one here thought he was a surefire top line juggernaut.

We drafted him. Then he had a great draft+1 year. Therefore, people got excited.

In a tier 2 Swedish league

Yes there are decent players that come from there but again stat watching and it's rrare

 

[Ice-Tray]

I have provided burrows’ stats getting us into the playoffs that year and it gets ignored by those who have their minds made up.

He scored at a .5 ppg clip down the stretch when we were battling to get in, as a bottom six guy, and he was the first star in at least two games, with a couple of other star of the game showings.

He was an important, though not the MOST important (as no one have ever claimed) part of making the playoffs that year. Dahlen would not have, and could not have, helped us.

Folks like to claim that ‘yeah but we could have for sure gotten a better player for Dahlen who would have helped us even more!’ But this is more a hope and a prayer really. We would have been hard pressed to get a .5 a game player, especially a proven playoff warrior. It’s ridiculous to say that we could have gotten a better player, when we have no idea at all about what the NHL trade market looks like for certain beyond trades that are actually made.

Now in the playoffs Burrows ended up getting injured and only provided some second assists on over time goals, you know, inconsequential because one poster says he would totally have made the same play.

The next season was terrible for him, and for EK, and everyone in between. Who cares about the extension though, it was the price to get him and it had zero consequences on the previous year or future of the team. It was more a shame that this was how he ended his career.

It is possible that we could have traded for a better player, and it’s also possible that we could have gotten a worse one. Either way there is no guarantee that any other player would have scored at the same clip and been as instrumental in making the playoffs (the run was almost as epic as the playoff run itself).

I for one was a big fan of Burrows, and though he was at the end of his career, I was happy to have had him on my team and watch him make a difference, even if he wasn’t prime Burrows anymore. I could not care less about Dahlen, we have a handful of those guys in system already.

Fans that assume that we could have just gone and gotten a better player put the ‘fan’ in fantasy. Maybe we can’t have nice things because when we get nice things, big or small, people can’t enjoy them in the moment.

 

[JD1]

And cost us Chara in the end...Us screwing over his childhood friend probably want a good idea when he was slated to be a ufa the next season

Yes it sure did. I didn't say otherwise. I just commented that we didn't lose Hossa to a retention issue.

 

[GrantLemons]

I can respect the Burrows trade as an attempt to finally get the Gary Roberts-type battle hardened playoff vet that Ottawa never managed to pull the trigger on in previous playoff drives. It was a gamble that almost paid off, and I'm not losing any sleep over Jonathan ****ing Dahlen.

The Zibanejad deal on the other hand....that one's gonna sting for a while.

The worst part about acquiring Burrows wasnt what we gave up for him, or that he was old, it was giving him a 2 year extension.

Like my god its f***ing rental, you dont do that. Go use Dahlen to get another guy that doesnt demand a 2 year extension.

Idiocy at its finest. While Melnyk is counting every penny that goes into his front office, he employs a moron that pisses away 5 mill on a rental that's washed up.

Really, really bad business, from top to bottom.

 

[JD1]

Man, it's kind of funny. You are consistently wrong in most of your posts.


Don't remember anyone saying mid 1st, but he was def better than his 2nd round pick. It was pretty unanimous.

@BondraTime already proved you wrong though on the whole Petterson angle you are trying to play.



Not sure what you are talking about. There were plenty of vets last year. More so than this year. I would say pretty comparable to what Dahlen has this year. JOB, McCormick, Werek, Rheinhart, Sexton, etc.



Yeah, time will tell. But I'd say he's doing pretty well for a rookie in the AHL. 29 pts in 50 is damn solid for a rookie. White had 29 in 52, Chlapik 32 in 52, pretty comparable.

I don't think @BondraTime in all due respe t proved anything. He has an opinion, ans a moare educated one than most around here, but it is an opinion.

Chaplik led Belleville in scoring. Dahlen is what 5th or 6th in Utica this year? Behind some solid ahl veteran talent. And the articles i've read thus far, apart from this week after his best week of the year, have referred to his year as pretty underwhelming. Go look for them. Google is your friend.

The Petterson angle was pretty simple. He had a good year ppg wise playing with Petterson. At his age and status he should have been in the SHL the year after. He wasn't. Near all high end swedish players are. Fact is his development was behind being in tier 2 swedish hockey last year. Go through the rosters and look how many kids play in the shl. A year older, staying in the same league, not improving his numbers, that is the Petterson effect.

His stock rising....it rose because of Petterson....i know what he did last year...i am just not hugely impressed by it given the league it was in

 

[Agent Zub]

In a tier 2 Swedish league

Yes there are decent players that come from there but again stat watching and it's rrare

You keep saying tier 2 league like it's some kind of insult lol.

It's better than the CHL and for an 18 year old to dominate is something.

 

[HSF]

You keep saying tier 2 league like it's some kind of insult lol.

It's better than the CHL and for an 18 year old to dominate is something.

He wasn't 18 when he 'dominated '

 

[Micklebot]

This is utterly hilarious. We went from "OMG! Dahlen is going to be the next Filip Forsberg!!!11" to "...maybe we shouldn't of extended Burrows".

At the time of the trade, Bob McKenzie said there was sentiment among NHL scouts that Dahlen would struggle on NHL ice compared to Europe. The only people who thought this was a bad trade were self proclaimed eliteprospect.com stat watchers. Which were the same people that said Tkachuk would be a 3rd/4th liner in the NHL. There's way more to scouting a player than just watching his stat line. Especially when he's in a 2nd tier European league!

Wow, that's some pretty blatant misrepresenting of McKenzie's statements on Dahlen. Here's what he actually said at the time of the trade:

A couple teams said, ‘No question he’s a really good prospect, he’s going to be a top 6 scoring winger.’ I talked to a couple teams who said that, because he’s not a dynamic skater and he’s more of a top of the circles down-guy, he slots in more at a 3rd-line winger. The consensus is he’s going to play in the NHL, the question is how high in the line-up and how any goals.”

Also, nobody is saying maybe we shouldn't have extended Burrows; we obviously shouldn't have extended him.

 

[JD1]

You keep saying tier 2 league like it's some kind of insult lol.

It's better than the CHL and for an 18 year old to dominate is something.

You can take virtually any 2nd round nhl pick at 19 years of age and plop them into a league of mostly aged 22+ undrafted hockey players and they'd dominate.

That tier 2 league is not full of "men" that have ambitions beyond hopefully spending a season or two in the shl.

Here's an article that ranks the top 10 leagues in the world plus 3 honourable mentions

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-best-ice-hockey-leagues/

Here's one that ranks that league 10th but below the ECHL, however this article is 4 years old and other euro leagues have strenthen while the swedish league remains tier 2

Ranking the Top Ten Hockey Leagues

 

[JungleBeat]

You can take virtually any 2nd round nhl pick at 19 years of age and plop them into a league of mostly aged 22+ undrafted hockey players and they'd dominate.

That tier 2 league is not full of "men" that have ambitions beyond hopefully spending a season or two in the shl.

Here's an article that ranks the top 10 leagues in the world plus 3 honourable mentions

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-best-ice-hockey-leagues/

Here's one that ranks that league 10th but below the ECHL, however this article is 4 years old and other euro leagues have strenthen while the swedish league remains tier 2

Ranking the Top Ten Hockey Leagues

Do you still think the CIS is a better league or did you change your tune?

 

[JD1]

Do you still think the CIS is a better league or did you change your tune?

I don't think they are much different.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think @BondraTime in all due respe t proved anything. He has an opinion, ans a moare educated one than most around here, but it is an opinion.

Chaplik led Belleville in scoring. Dahlen is what 5th or 6th in Utica this year? Behind some solid ahl veteran talent. And the articles i've read thus far, apart from this week after his best week of the year, have referred to his year as pretty underwhelming. Go look for them. Google is your friend.

The Petterson angle was pretty simple. He had a good year ppg wise playing with Petterson. At his age and status he should have been in the SHL the year after. He wasn't. Near all high end swedish players are. Fact is his development was behind being in tier 2 swedish hockey last year. Go through the rosters and look how many kids play in the shl. A year older, staying in the same league, not improving his numbers, that is the Petterson effect.

His stock rising....it rose because of Petterson....i know what he did last year...i am just not hugely impressed by it given the league it was in

He went back to Allsvenskan because he had mono, missing training camp with the Canucks, but sure... He actually had several SHL teams interested in him mid season (he had an out clause in his contract that would allow him to jump to the SHL or the NHL in Dec) but he chose to stick with the team he had played with since 2014. He wanted to try to get his team, Timra, promoted to the SHL and guess what, he did. Timra led the allsveksan and was promoted in large part thanks to Dahlen.