The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[Sensinitis]

Well, it can definitely be argued that Perron is a better asset than Balcers.

Can you argue that please? I'd like to read.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Can you argue that please? I'd like to read.

Okay.

Francis Perron is 22. In his last junior season, he put up 108 points in 62 games. After the draft, he joined a farm team that was in shambles, and struggled, but since moving to a Tier-A organization, has found his game and has scored 27 points in 28 games.

Rudolfs Balcers is 21 years old. In his last junior season, he scored 77 points in 66 games. After the draft, he joined a Tier-A organization and had a very good rookie AHL season, scoring 48 points in 67 games. In his second year, though, he's seemingly plateaued and is on pace for around 50 points in 70 games. So far, he's scored one less point than Perron, but he's played in 8 more games.

But really, I don't think either will ever be an NHL regular. They're inconsequential pieces of the trade.

 

[Sensinitis]

Okay.

Francis Perron is 22. In his last junior season, he put up 108 points in 62 games. After the draft, he joined a farm team that was in shambles, and struggled, but since moving to a Tier-A organization, has found his game and has scored 27 points in 28 games.

Rudolfs Balcers is 21 years old. In his last junior season, he scored 77 points in 66 games. After the draft, he joined a Tier-A organization and had a very good rookie AHL season, scoring 48 points in 67 games. In his second year, though, he's seemingly plateaued and is on pace for around 50 points in 70 games. So far, he's scored one less point than Perron, but he's played in 8 more games.

But really, I don't think either will ever be an NHL regular. They're inconsequential pieces of the trade.

Thanks! Pretty convenient that you don't mention goals at all in your post though... The way I see it Perron is on pace to score 20 goals and put up his best point totals yet in his 3rd AHL season. Balcers is, like you said, 1 year younger and put up 20+ goals in his rookie AHL season, and should put up 20+ goals again in his sophomore season barring injury, on a worse team than the one he was on last season. Do you think Perron has what it takes to be an NHLer despite what he showed in his pre-season games with us (I found him to be pretty underwhelming considering he was one of my fav prospects back in the day) and his unwillingness to go in the dirty areas and the fact that he's not in the top tier of skaters and speed (meaning it will be difficult for him to overcome his small stature)?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Thanks! Pretty convenient that you don't mention goals at all in your post though... The way I see it Perron is on pace to score 20 goals and put up his best point totals yet in his 3rd AHL season. Balcers is, like you said, 1 year younger and put up 20+ goals in his rookie AHL season, and should put up 20+ goals again in his sophomore season barring injury, on a worse team than the one he was on last season. Do you think Perron has what it takes to be an NHLer despite what he showed in his pre-season games with us (I found him to be pretty underwhelming considering he was one of my fav prospects back in the day) and his unwillingness to go in the dirty areas and the fact that he's not in the top tier of skaters and speed (meaning it will be difficult for him to overcome his small stature)?

Well like I said, I don't think either player has what it takes to be an NHLer.

I do think Perron could be a better AHLer than Balcers though.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Well, it can definitely be argued that Perron is a better asset than Balcers. It can also be argued that Demelo and Tierney are not pieces for the rebuild, but rather, filler for the next couple of years who will leave by the time we're ready to compete.

So when you break it down, the return of the "most important trade for this rebuild", as Dorion mentioned, is Josh Norris and what projects to be a 1st round pick in the 20's.

Not great.

It's also been widely speculated that Dorion got stuck on the idea of "6 pieces" and passed on offers that were lower in quantity, but higher in quality. When was the last time quality for quantity worked out, for anyone?

Oh ya, no doubt that what you said here is 100% true. And yes adding Perron as a “throw in” was dumb. He was a top player in the QMJHL and was a project with Ottawa who still had potential, so they should of held on to him for longer.
But no way can you argue Perron is the second best asset of the trade. If you went in a list of what would you want as a GM of all the assets involved in the trade, Perron would be near the bottom.

 

[Silencio]

FWIW, Balcers is the only piece of the Karlsson trade that Sharks fans seem to be legitimately disappointed to lose.

 

[Sensinitis]

Yeah Balcers will be an NHLer, Perron will not. I'm no scout (though that would be fun) but I'm pretty sure of that. Balcers has MacArthur-lite potential imo. Perron will probably be like Varone. Very good AHLer who gets a few cups of coffee in the NHL but doesn't stick.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Yeah Balcers will be an NHLer, Perron will not. I'm no scout (though that would be fun) but I'm pretty sure of that. Balcers has MacArthur-lite potential imo. Perron will probably be like Varone. Very good AHLer who gets a few cups of coffee in the NHL but doesn't stick.

I've been out of town since Balcers was called up and haven't seen any of his games. I did see the replay of his goal. How do people feel about how he's looked so far?

 

[Sensinitis]

I've been out of town since Balcers was called up and haven't seen any of his games. I did see the replay of his goal. How do people feel about how he's looked so far?

Don't take my opinion for fact because I just saw 2 of his games but from what I saw he has very good speed and pace both physically (quick skater both straight line and laterally) and mentally (makes quick decisions and good hockey IQ). He has good hands too like he showed on his 1st NHL goal. Boucher hasn't played him that much but he looked good on his few shifts with better players. I'd like to see more of his shot because from AHL highlights he seems to have a really good one timer (and he's on pace for his 2nd 20 goal season in the AHL so is definitely a finisher at least at that level). Haven't noticed him on the PP, hopefully he gets a chance!

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

One thing that occurred to me a couple days ago, and it is very liberating. I decided that I will never, ever listen to either Dorion or Melnyck in any kind of audio format ever again.

If either comes on in an interview or a press conference or team produced inspirational video I will instantly switch channels or turn off the device.

Just knowing that I'll never have to hear the sound of either of these clowns voices ever again is really a great feeling.

 

[JD1]

Well, it can definitely be argued that Perron is a better asset than Balcers. It can also be argued that Demelo and Tierney are not pieces for the rebuild, but rather, filler for the next couple of years who will leave by the time we're ready to compete.

So when you break it down, the return of the "most important trade for this rebuild", as Dorion mentioned, is Josh Norris and what projects to be a 1st round pick in the 20's.

Not great.

It's also been widely speculated that Dorion got stuck on the idea of "6 pieces" and passed on offers that were lower in quantity, but higher in quality. When was the last time quality for quantity worked out, for anyone?

You can break things down many different ways, some of them make more sense than others. Tierney and DeMelo are legitimate nhl players. Giveh their ages, both look to me like they'll be playing in this league for another 5 or more years. You cannot just waive your hand and dismiss them because it suits your point of view. Well actually i suppose you can because you did.

The book won't be closed on this deal for quite some time.

But keep on trucking with your negative takes

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They certainly aren't rebuilding pieces worth hanging on to beyond some intermediary filler, but they do have some value in that we should be able to get a 2nd or so for Tierney and a 5th or so for DeMelo when we move them over these next couple years. I'm assuming Karlsson goes to FA and doesn't re-sign with the Sharks, so this is what it would look like.

1st
2 x 2nd's
5th
Norris
Balcers

for

Karlsson
Perron

Still not nearly enough for the best defenceman of our generation, but it does look better on paper than having stop gap pieces like Tierney and DeMelo thrown in the deal. This season and at least next season are write offs, so stop gaps aren't exciting or all that necessary imo.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

You can break things down many different ways, some of them make more sense than others. Tierney and DeMelo are legitimate nhl players. Giveh their ages, both look to me like they'll be playing in this league for another 5 or more years. You cannot just waive your hand and dismiss them because it suits your point of view. Well actually i suppose you can because you did.

The book won't be closed on this deal for quite some time.

But keep on trucking with your negative takes

The book was closed on this deal the second Dorion put the phone down.

 

[Agent Zub]

You can break things down many different ways, some of them make more sense than others. Tierney and DeMelo are legitimate nhl players. Giveh their ages, both look to me like they'll be playing in this league for another 5 or more years. You cannot just waive your hand and dismiss them because it suits your point of view. Well actually i suppose you can because you did.

The book won't be closed on this deal for quite some time.

But keep on trucking with your negative takes

Lol Tierny and DeMelo are both dime a dozen players that eventually get replaced by better cheaper players. You can get either caliber of players in every free agency.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Wow, I did not realise how young Dorion is... Oh Em Gee. Makes a lot of sense now.

 

[Sens]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Wow, I did not realise how young Dorion is... Oh Em Gee. Makes a lot of sense now.

He has been working in the NHL since he was 21/22, pretty crazy

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

He has been working in the NHL since he was 21/22, pretty crazy

Not that difficult when his father was already in the league. NHL is still like that.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Not that difficult when his father was already in the league. NHL is still like that.

Didn't know his father worked in the league, still kind of crazy to think about though

22 is such a baby

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Thank you Kleinendorst.

 

[pzeeman]

I've been chewing on this scenario for the past few days, and I'd like to see what the board thinks:

When Dorion interviewed Boucher, he was blown away by Boucher's approach to hockey, and at that point tied the Senators wagon to playing Boucher Hockey™ , and giving Boucher whatever he wanted to make his vision happen. This is why Z-Bad was traded for a centre based on his handedness (as well as the raise that Z-Bad was due, and hadn't yet deserved - at least from the Senators). This is why he brought in Pyatt. This is why he brough DiDo into the fold. This is why he got Burrows.

When the team made it to the ECF, and he was nominated for GM of the year, he and Boucher became convinced they were the smartest guys in the room. That Boucher Hockey™ could deal with the loss of Methot. They had played 70-some games Boucher Hockey™ without Mac, so his loss wasn't a big deal. Boucher wanted Nate Thompson. Karlsson wanted Oduya, and Boucher Hockey™ could work for him.

At the same time, Dorion had coveted Duchene for a long time, and when he wouldn't offer Turris his 6x6 (rightly in my mind), he saw his opportunity to get him for Turris (upgrade), Bowers (not a top prospect) and a pick in the high teens (at worst). Duchene would help counter one of the big problems with Boucher Hockey™ - a lack of scoring. And if it doesn't work out in a year or two - doesn't matter. won Cup.

But Boucher Hockey™ isn't all that, and doesn't work in today's game. When it didn't work, they tried to Boucher Hockey™ harder, but that just made things worse. Now comes Feb 2018. Dorion has realized the Boucher Hockey™ doesn't work, and that he's built his team badly. Time to rebuild!

So all the problems we've seen so far is because Dorion bought into Boucher Hockey™ and tried to optimize his team for that. Add to that the handcuffs of Melnyk's budget. I think he's learned something, and that he'll actually turn out to be a pretty good GM in his next job. He's creative and not afraid to be aggressive. But he'll never let a coach dictate his team in this way again.

 

[JungleBeat]

So all the problems we've seen so far is because Dorion bought into Boucher Hockey™ and tried to optimize his team for that. Add to that the handcuffs of Melnyk's budget. I think he's learned something, and that he'll actually turn out to be a pretty good GM in his next job. He's creative and not afraid to be aggressive. But he'll never let a coach dictate his team in this way again.

Just no. He’s the worst GM in the league by a huge margin. Only an idiot would have thought the addition of Duchene would make the Sens a cup contender.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I've been chewing on this scenario for the past few days, and I'd like to see what the board thinks:

When Dorion interviewed Boucher, he was blown away by Boucher's approach to hockey, and at that point tied the Senators wagon to playing Boucher Hockey™ , and giving Boucher whatever he wanted to make his vision happen. This is why Z-Bad was traded for a centre based on his handedness (as well as the raise that Z-Bad was due, and hadn't yet deserved - at least from the Senators). This is why he brought in Pyatt. This is why he brough DiDo into the fold. This is why he got Burrows.

When the team made it to the ECF, and he was nominated for GM of the year, he and Boucher became convinced they were the smartest guys in the room. That Boucher Hockey™ could deal with the loss of Methot. They had played 70-some games Boucher Hockey™ without Mac, so his loss wasn't a big deal. Boucher wanted Nate Thompson. Karlsson wanted Oduya, and Boucher Hockey™ could work for him.

At the same time, Dorion had coveted Duchene for a long time, and when he wouldn't offer Turris his 6x6 (rightly in my mind), he saw his opportunity to get him for Turris (upgrade), Bowers (not a top prospect) and a pick in the high teens (at worst). Duchene would help counter one of the big problems with Boucher Hockey™ - a lack of scoring. And if it doesn't work out in a year or two - doesn't matter. won Cup.

But Boucher Hockey™ isn't all that, and doesn't work in today's game. When it didn't work, they tried to Boucher Hockey™ harder, but that just made things worse. Now comes Feb 2018. Dorion has realized the Boucher Hockey™ doesn't work, and that he's built his team badly. Time to rebuild!

So all the problems we've seen so far is because Dorion bought into Boucher Hockey™ and tried to optimize his team for that. Add to that the handcuffs of Melnyk's budget. I think he's learned something, and that he'll actually turn out to be a pretty good GM in his next job. He's creative and not afraid to be aggressive. But he'll never let a coach dictate his team in this way again.

He is an amateur scout; He cannot hold a candle in tactics to an NHL coach. He cannot make a counter argument to their strategies on how it can be improved. He has to let his coach dictate to a certain degree. I would not in any way excuse Dorion in this way. He is a bumbling fool, that is less than honest with the fans, makes poor decisions that have cost this team dearly in giving up too much and not getting enough back. He has overestimated the roster he has given Boucher to coach and set the team on a course to fail on the ice, in building his roster, and in being able to give confidence in the ability to turn things around sufficiently to make his best players want to stay. I would say Dorion is the single biggest problem on this team.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Just no. He’s the worst GM in the league by a huge margin. Only an idiot would have thought the addition of Duchene would make the Sens a cup contender.

His evaluation of where we were as a team last year was a horrific miscalculation.